SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: V12 TT torque is evil....
01-29-2010, 01:48 AM
#1
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V12 TT torque is evil....
For the last few months, I have been bitten by that new car bug, that idea that grass is always greener on the other side of the proverbial fence - it didn't help to see that menacing dark grey R8 on the hwy the other day, either. Today I finally caved in to the siren call and I drove an R8 with the 4.2 V8. An absolutely lovely looking light metallic silver car with carbon-fiber side blades, an open, airy cabin, a driver environment with a dash to die for, R-Tronic that snaps off shifts with a sweet kick in the back - or so smooth they are barely perceptible.
That Audi R8 is a marvelous piece of engineering, build quality, and entertaining, playing all the right tunes, particularly when the engine screams towards the 8,000+ redline.
But on the way back, driving the unassuming 6.0 Biturbo accelerating on an on-ramp from low 1,800 RPM with that monster shove in the back, I had a sudden flash of epiphany what everyday driving excitement is all about: The last bit of glorious acceleration supremacy from 30 to 120 - it is NOT! Hole-shot, hammer-down sprints from 50 to 80 at any time on a crowded hwy that does not take advanced planning with pre-selecting of low gears and high revs - that is where the game is played.
Could I really leave that cool, efficient stealth mode behind?
That Audi R8 is a marvelous piece of engineering, build quality, and entertaining, playing all the right tunes, particularly when the engine screams towards the 8,000+ redline.
But on the way back, driving the unassuming 6.0 Biturbo accelerating on an on-ramp from low 1,800 RPM with that monster shove in the back, I had a sudden flash of epiphany what everyday driving excitement is all about: The last bit of glorious acceleration supremacy from 30 to 120 - it is NOT! Hole-shot, hammer-down sprints from 50 to 80 at any time on a crowded hwy that does not take advanced planning with pre-selecting of low gears and high revs - that is where the game is played.
Could I really leave that cool, efficient stealth mode behind?
01-29-2010, 07:24 AM
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01-29-2010, 09:54 AM
#3
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The V12 biturbo is definitely addicting and "ruins" other cars. The R8 5.2 V10 does have more torque than the 4.2 (391lbs-ft vs 317lbs-ft). It is too bad the R8 V12 TDI isn't available...with the same torque as the 65 V12TT mated to AWD... it must be a monster to drive! 
Tom
Tom
01-29-2010, 10:57 AM
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
One of my favorite things to do is turn the ESP off while cruising at 40mph and hammer the GO pedal. The look on my unsuspecting passenger's face, when the wheels break loose and belt out a scream as they bite for traction, is priceless.
40 mph burnouts are fun. Very fun.
40 mph burnouts are fun. Very fun.
01-29-2010, 12:09 PM
#6
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All that torque does have a down side!
In the UK it rains a lot, and the roads are peppered with bends and roudabouts. Driving here is quite different to driving in the Sates, I have driven there many times. Sunny weather, big open roads and the lack of bends means you can at least use it over there. However in the UK my CL65 with it's lack of roadholding and quite often damp roads meant the traction taking over most of the time.
Top gear done a tug of war, the CL65 on a damp surface against a tug of war team, the tug of war team won as the 65 lit up it's tyres, silly really, but it was a simplistic way of showing so much torque which they said was too much. Has anybody thought why they don't fit bigger boots, 325 maybe.
It would also look fab.
In the UK it rains a lot, and the roads are peppered with bends and roudabouts. Driving here is quite different to driving in the Sates, I have driven there many times. Sunny weather, big open roads and the lack of bends means you can at least use it over there. However in the UK my CL65 with it's lack of roadholding and quite often damp roads meant the traction taking over most of the time.
Top gear done a tug of war, the CL65 on a damp surface against a tug of war team, the tug of war team won as the 65 lit up it's tyres, silly really, but it was a simplistic way of showing so much torque which they said was too much. Has anybody thought why they don't fit bigger boots, 325 maybe.It would also look fab.
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01-29-2010, 06:34 PM
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Real Cars
All that torque does have a down side!
In the UK it rains a lot, and the roads are peppered with bends and roudabouts. Driving here is quite different to driving in the Sates, I have driven there many times. Sunny weather, big open roads and the lack of bends means you can at least use it over there. However in the UK my CL65 with it's lack of roadholding and quite often damp roads meant the traction taking over most of the time. Top gear done a tug of war, the CL65 on a damp surface against a tug of war team, the tug of war team won as the 65 lit up it's tyres, silly really, but it was a simplistic way of showing so much torque which they said was too much. Has anybody thought why they don't fit bigger boots, 325 maybe.
It would also look fab.
In the UK it rains a lot, and the roads are peppered with bends and roudabouts. Driving here is quite different to driving in the Sates, I have driven there many times. Sunny weather, big open roads and the lack of bends means you can at least use it over there. However in the UK my CL65 with it's lack of roadholding and quite often damp roads meant the traction taking over most of the time.
Top gear done a tug of war, the CL65 on a damp surface against a tug of war team, the tug of war team won as the 65 lit up it's tyres, silly really, but it was a simplistic way of showing so much torque which they said was too much. Has anybody thought why they don't fit bigger boots, 325 maybe.It would also look fab.
Four problems.
- Are you saying in damp conditions a 55k would not struggle for traction, but a 65 would?
- This is the R230 section, not the W215. (you seem to like to reference your CL65 which is very different than the R230)
- Do you realize the 55k R230 does not have a factory LSD while the 65 does?
- I have a 305 tire on my R230, which is obviously a lot larger than what a W215 can fit. I have yet to drive a 400hp RWD car that doesn't struggle to put power down when roads are damp.
01-29-2010, 06:57 PM
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V12-Biturbo
Jeez go away already, you ruin every thread you touch...
All that torque does have a down side!
In the UK it rains a lot, and the roads are peppered with bends and roudabouts. Driving here is quite different to driving in the Sates, I have driven there many times. Sunny weather, big open roads and the lack of bends means you can at least use it over there. However in the UK my CL65 with it's lack of roadholding and quite often damp roads meant the traction taking over most of the time. Top gear done a tug of war, the CL65 on a damp surface against a tug of war team, the tug of war team won as the 65 lit up it's tyres, silly really, but it was a simplistic way of showing so much torque which they said was too much. Has anybody thought why they don't fit bigger boots, 325 maybe.
It would also look fab.
In the UK it rains a lot, and the roads are peppered with bends and roudabouts. Driving here is quite different to driving in the Sates, I have driven there many times. Sunny weather, big open roads and the lack of bends means you can at least use it over there. However in the UK my CL65 with it's lack of roadholding and quite often damp roads meant the traction taking over most of the time.
Top gear done a tug of war, the CL65 on a damp surface against a tug of war team, the tug of war team won as the 65 lit up it's tyres, silly really, but it was a simplistic way of showing so much torque which they said was too much. Has anybody thought why they don't fit bigger boots, 325 maybe.It would also look fab.
Last edited by Thericker; 01-29-2010 at 07:21 PM.
01-29-2010, 07:11 PM
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V12-Biturbo
One of my favorite things to do is turn the ESP off while cruising at 40mph and hammer the GO pedal. The look on my unsuspecting passenger's face, when the wheels break loose and belt out a scream as they bite for traction, is priceless.
40 mph burnouts are fun. Very fun.
40 mph burnouts are fun. Very fun.
we were side by side in 45mph zone exhaust was crackling/burbling while I forcefully downshifted to 1st from 2nd then laid monster smokey burnout kicking to the side a wee-bit.Biker was totally kool, thumbs
& minishaking his head @ nxt stoplight
01-30-2010, 12:01 AM
#11
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You guys are of no help at all... 
maybe I should move over the an R8 forum to get some encouragement 
Seriously, what is everybody going to drive after these wheels are tired? I am pretty sure the F/I V12's are going the way of the dinosaurs, but it does not have to be the end of the road.
Torque is the enemy of light weight, horsepower is not - as in torque is bending the chassis which in turn requires monster reinforcements to counteract, hence the R230 weights a gazillion pounds -horsepower at 8,500 RPM has no such problems, hence lighter vehicles with even better power to weight ratio. Best proof of that theory is the 5 vs. 7 speed transmission debate right under this nameplate.
Don't you ask yourself sometimes that same question: Which vehicle has achieved the most advanced level of performance? Its not the R230 TT, even though the planet twisting torque is intoxicating. Its not an M6, because who is continually carving up back roads? Is there anything on the horizon that you are salivating about? The SLS maybe? if it weren't so butt ugly...
maybe I should move over the an R8 forum to get some encouragement Seriously, what is everybody going to drive after these wheels are tired? I am pretty sure the F/I V12's are going the way of the dinosaurs, but it does not have to be the end of the road.
Torque is the enemy of light weight, horsepower is not - as in torque is bending the chassis which in turn requires monster reinforcements to counteract, hence the R230 weights a gazillion pounds -horsepower at 8,500 RPM has no such problems, hence lighter vehicles with even better power to weight ratio. Best proof of that theory is the 5 vs. 7 speed transmission debate right under this nameplate.
Don't you ask yourself sometimes that same question: Which vehicle has achieved the most advanced level of performance? Its not the R230 TT, even though the planet twisting torque is intoxicating. Its not an M6, because who is continually carving up back roads? Is there anything on the horizon that you are salivating about? The SLS maybe? if it weren't so butt ugly...
01-30-2010, 12:28 AM
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
I'm sorry, I will continue to be of little to no help. Although massive HP with multiple gearing options is very entertaining (as is 1+ G of cornering ability), it's massive torque that completes the daily smile equation. There is no "down side" to ridiculous amounts of torque other than the penchant to replace rear tires all too frequently. Especially in the US (and the UK, admit it), you may get away with an absurd acceleration run up to, or slightly above, the posted limit, but you will not get away with a triple digit disregard for said limit. If you have crappy wet weather to deal with, a high speed blast VS a neck wrenching take-off is even less safe. Indeed, I am more than ever convinced that a V12TT or something similar is the only possible cure for a street going adrenaline fix. Anything else is wasted on roads patrolled by California's finest.
Last edited by Fast55; 01-30-2010 at 12:32 AM.
01-30-2010, 09:01 AM
#13
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sound8:
Four problems.
- Are you saying in damp conditions a 55k would not struggle for traction, but a 65 would?
- This is the R230 section, not the W215. (you seem to like to reference your CL65 which is very different than the R230)
- Do you realize the 55k R230 does not have a factory LSD while the 65 does?
- I have a 305 tire on my R230, which is obviously a lot larger than what a W215 can fit. I have yet to drive a 400hp RWD car that doesn't struggle to put power down when roads are damp.
Four problems.
- Are you saying in damp conditions a 55k would not struggle for traction, but a 65 would?
- This is the R230 section, not the W215. (you seem to like to reference your CL65 which is very different than the R230)
- Do you realize the 55k R230 does not have a factory LSD while the 65 does?
- I have a 305 tire on my R230, which is obviously a lot larger than what a W215 can fit. I have yet to drive a 400hp RWD car that doesn't struggle to put power down when roads are damp.
However on the dry days when you find a piece of uncongested road I agree all that torque can make your nuts tingle
01-30-2010, 11:20 AM
#14
Personally I think it's fun when the rear end brakes loose. It can all be adjusted by your right foot. I have never had any problem in the rain it's docile unless you want to play. A carefull right foot and a bit of opposite lock fixes all. :-)
01-30-2010, 11:20 AM
#15
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You guys are of no help at all... maybe I should move over the an R8 forum to get some encouragement
Seriously, what is everybody going to drive after these wheels are tired? I am pretty sure the F/I V12's are going the way of the dinosaurs, but it does not have to be the end of the road.
Torque is the enemy of light weight, horsepower is not - as in torque is bending the chassis which in turn requires monster reinforcements to counteract, hence the R230 weights a gazillion pounds -horsepower at 8,500 RPM has no such problems, hence lighter vehicles with even better power to weight ratio. Best proof of that theory is the 5 vs. 7 speed transmission debate right under this nameplate.
Don't you ask yourself sometimes that same question: Which vehicle has achieved the most advanced level of performance? Its not the R230 TT, even though the planet twisting torque is intoxicating. Its not an M6, because who is continually carving up back roads? Is there anything on the horizon that you are salivating about? The SLS maybe? if it weren't so butt ugly...
maybe I should move over the an R8 forum to get some encouragement Seriously, what is everybody going to drive after these wheels are tired? I am pretty sure the F/I V12's are going the way of the dinosaurs, but it does not have to be the end of the road.
Torque is the enemy of light weight, horsepower is not - as in torque is bending the chassis which in turn requires monster reinforcements to counteract, hence the R230 weights a gazillion pounds -horsepower at 8,500 RPM has no such problems, hence lighter vehicles with even better power to weight ratio. Best proof of that theory is the 5 vs. 7 speed transmission debate right under this nameplate.
Don't you ask yourself sometimes that same question: Which vehicle has achieved the most advanced level of performance? Its not the R230 TT, even though the planet twisting torque is intoxicating. Its not an M6, because who is continually carving up back roads? Is there anything on the horizon that you are salivating about? The SLS maybe? if it weren't so butt ugly...
For me based on price and overall performance...Audi R8 V10...maybe with some special help from MTM.
01-30-2010, 05:12 PM
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V12-Biturbo
I'd go to a Ferrari 599 GTB for a current choice...the bang for you buck and common sense choice would probably be a Corvette Z series but I can't see myself in a Corvette for some reason.
For me based on price and overall performance...Audi R8 V10...maybe with some special help from MTM.
For me based on price and overall performance...Audi R8 V10...maybe with some special help from MTM.
Just gotta wait for those prices to fall, I'm very surprised I haven't seen anyone TT the new R8 V10 yet Underground Racing does this TT routinely on the Gallardos why NO R8 V10 app yet?
01-30-2010, 07:09 PM
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Actually both:
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20123
and the Hefner V8:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Heffnertwinturbo
talking about evil....
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20123
and the Hefner V8:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Heffnertwinturbo
talking about evil....
Dooooood!!! You read my mind I was telling another member the other day that would be my choice Audi R8 V10 w/Twins Just gotta wait for those prices to fall, I'm very surprised I haven't seen anyone TT the new R8 V10 yet Underground Racing does this TT routinely on the Gallardos why NO R8 V10 app yet?
Just gotta wait for those prices to fall, I'm very surprised I haven't seen anyone TT the new R8 V10 yet Underground Racing does this TT routinely on the Gallardos why NO R8 V10 app yet?
01-30-2010, 11:53 PM
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V12-Biturbo
Actually both:
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20123
and the Hefner V8:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Heffnertwinturbo
talking about evil....
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20123
and the Hefner V8:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Heffnertwinturbo
talking about evil....
01-31-2010, 01:03 AM
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01-31-2010, 07:10 AM
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02-04-2010, 08:54 PM
#22
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Interesting new track time for an R8 5.2 V10:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-R8-Timeslip-20314.html
I am shocked that the AWD couldn't net a better 60' time and the trap seems a little light...
Tom
http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-R8-Timeslip-20314.html
I am shocked that the AWD couldn't net a better 60' time and the trap seems a little light...
Tom
02-04-2010, 09:23 PM
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Interesting new track time for an R8 5.2 V10:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-R8-Timeslip-20314.html
I am shocked that the AWD couldn't net a better 60' time and the trap seems a little light...
Tom
http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-R8-Timeslip-20314.html
I am shocked that the AWD couldn't net a better 60' time and the trap seems a little light...
Tom
Had to be a soft launch, Tom. Even with only 117 mph, he should be around the 12.0x to 12.1x mark.
Did you see the Lambo's splits on that timeslip?
Last edited by Benz-O-Rama; 02-04-2010 at 09:25 PM.
02-04-2010, 09:29 PM
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http://www.dragtimes.com/Lamborghini...lip-20313.html
Check out his write up at the bottom notes section on how he launched!
Tom
02-04-2010, 09:32 PM
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Here is that same Gallardo's best run of the night:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Lamborghini...lip-20313.html
Check out his write up at the bottom notes section on how he launched!
Tom
http://www.dragtimes.com/Lamborghini...lip-20313.html
Check out his write up at the bottom notes section on how he launched!
Tom
In my best Rain Main voice..."Of course, I'm an eggggggcellent driver"
MPH seems low, no? I thought those things were up there with my car. Guess not.
