SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Fluid MotorUnion: SL65
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
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From: Plainfield/ Naperville, IL
A few
Fluid MotorUnion: SL65
Can you guys dig it? More images of each product will be posted later today!
Last edited by FluidMotorUnion; Aug 16, 2010 at 07:16 PM.
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From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Interesting... The CAI looks like it's entirely fabbed from heavy guage METAL minus the little plastic airtubes connected to fact air holes, problem w/this is it creates a MAJOR heatsink.
People that own these v12tt's know even in STOCK form heat is a MAJOR problem, I have run (2) different CAI designs & when I ran the ALL matal version (1/4 the amount of metal you have used here) it lost hp/tq on dyno & noticably ran like a pig.
Beyond that you have NOT eliminated the WORST problem w/stock CAI design, the excessive bends turns in airflow, sorry but this design is going to be MUCH worse than stock, you added pure metal & kept 85% of airflow restrictions.. (Even if you have cut some holes in the hood & added some sort of scoop or vents it still wont help the heatsink problem you've created w/Metal design)
I'll reserve comment on your Intercooler design...
People that own these v12tt's know even in STOCK form heat is a MAJOR problem, I have run (2) different CAI designs & when I ran the ALL matal version (1/4 the amount of metal you have used here) it lost hp/tq on dyno & noticably ran like a pig.
Beyond that you have NOT eliminated the WORST problem w/stock CAI design, the excessive bends turns in airflow, sorry but this design is going to be MUCH worse than stock, you added pure metal & kept 85% of airflow restrictions.. (Even if you have cut some holes in the hood & added some sort of scoop or vents it still wont help the heatsink problem you've created w/Metal design)
I'll reserve comment on your Intercooler design...
Last edited by Thericker; Aug 17, 2010 at 02:40 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 444
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From: Sweden
2008 MB CL600. 2020 MB E300 de. 1987 BMW M535i.
I'm noticing that the water reservoirs are kind of rotated in position.
To bad that they didn't take the time to make them larger while they were at it..!
At least they still seem just as small as stock...
By the way,
the most famous MB tuners in Germany, Brabus and Väth (Vaeth), make the tanks larger still sitting on top of the engine.
And in the US it's more common to put the larger tanks (or secondary tanks) in the boot..!
Anybody have pros & cons about that..?
To bad that they didn't take the time to make them larger while they were at it..!
At least they still seem just as small as stock...
By the way,
the most famous MB tuners in Germany, Brabus and Väth (Vaeth), make the tanks larger still sitting on top of the engine.
And in the US it's more common to put the larger tanks (or secondary tanks) in the boot..!
Anybody have pros & cons about that..?
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 631
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From: Paris.
E320
I'm noticing that the water reservoirs are kind of rotated in position.
To bad that they didn't take the time to make them larger while they were at it..!
At least they still seem just as small as stock...
By the way,
the most famous MB tuners in Germany, Brabus and Väth (Vaeth), make the tanks larger still sitting on top of the engine.
And in the US it's more common to put the larger tanks (or secondary tanks) in the boot..!
Anybody have pros & cons about that..?
To bad that they didn't take the time to make them larger while they were at it..!
At least they still seem just as small as stock...
By the way,
the most famous MB tuners in Germany, Brabus and Väth (Vaeth), make the tanks larger still sitting on top of the engine.
And in the US it's more common to put the larger tanks (or secondary tanks) in the boot..!
Anybody have pros & cons about that..?
On that SL65, the intercoolers are the stock ones but they are relocated in order to free space for that intake.
The only Bigger intercoolers available on the market are those built by SPeeddriven and formerly sold by VRP.
MarkoCL65 and Soulsearcher have them.
Brabus Prefer using 4 Stock intercoolers on their most extreme versions like the EV12/EV12 Coupe and in the T65 RS package for SL65 BS.
Brabus uses the stock intercoolers on their SV12 Engines.
I dunno for Vath but I don't think they offer Real bigger intercoolers.(And vath is not as famous as brabus.The two big names in German MB tuning are Carlsson and brabus)
At least I haven't seen Them.
Like MKB who claim using bigger intercoolers on their CL65, but that must be false since they use the stock CF engine cover and intake,wich means there cannot be enough place to put anything bigger than stock.
That's why VRP/speedriven use that "Scorpion intake". Because bigger intercoolers or Quad intercoolers take the place of the airboxes.
Last edited by DCMETRO22Z; Aug 17, 2010 at 10:01 AM.
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From: South FL & NYC
Your worst nightmare...
You confuse Cooling liquid reservoir and intercoolers.
On that SL65, the intercoolers are the stock ones but they are relocated in order to free space for that intake.
The only Bigger intercoolers available on the market are those built by SPeeddriven and formerly sold by VRP.
MarkoCL65 and Soulsearcher have them.
Brabus Prefer using 4 Stock intercoolers on their most extreme versions like the EV12/EV12 Coupe and in the T65 RS package for SL65 BS.
Brabus uses the stock intercoolers on their SV12 Engines.
I dunno for Vath but I don't think they offer Real bigger intercoolers.(And vath is not as famous as brabus.The two big names in German MB tuning are Carlsson and brabus)
At least I haven't seen Them.
Like MKB who claim using bigger intercoolers on their CL65, but that must be false since they use the stock CF engine cover and intake,wich means there cannot be enough place to put anything bigger than stock.
That's why VRP/speedriven use that "Scorpion intake". Because bigger intercoolers or Quad intercoolers take the place of the airboxes.
On that SL65, the intercoolers are the stock ones but they are relocated in order to free space for that intake.
The only Bigger intercoolers available on the market are those built by SPeeddriven and formerly sold by VRP.
MarkoCL65 and Soulsearcher have them.
Brabus Prefer using 4 Stock intercoolers on their most extreme versions like the EV12/EV12 Coupe and in the T65 RS package for SL65 BS.
Brabus uses the stock intercoolers on their SV12 Engines.
I dunno for Vath but I don't think they offer Real bigger intercoolers.(And vath is not as famous as brabus.The two big names in German MB tuning are Carlsson and brabus)
At least I haven't seen Them.
Like MKB who claim using bigger intercoolers on their CL65, but that must be false since they use the stock CF engine cover and intake,wich means there cannot be enough place to put anything bigger than stock.
That's why VRP/speedriven use that "Scorpion intake". Because bigger intercoolers or Quad intercoolers take the place of the airboxes.
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From: South FL & NYC
Your worst nightmare...
Do you guys have any dyno's of this design on the SL65? 1/4 times?
I think that is the ultimate power tester to see if these work or not? Some datalogging of the Intake temperatures would also show if under load they are doing their job.
I think that is the ultimate power tester to see if these work or not? Some datalogging of the Intake temperatures would also show if under load they are doing their job.
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From: Maryland
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
I don't know...maybe I am crazy...but the intercooler cores look wider and taller than the stock one... 
Also, I am not sure the metal boxes matter all that much. If they have lowered the IATs with better intercooling, the "filter housing" isn't going to make much of a difference. I would be curious to see how this set-up dynos/tracks.
Tom
Also, I am not sure the metal boxes matter all that much. If they have lowered the IATs with better intercooling, the "filter housing" isn't going to make much of a difference. I would be curious to see how this set-up dynos/tracks.
Tom
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Posts: 631
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From: Paris.
E320
Since 4 intercoolers must be 100% more efficient, I'd go with the quad setup.
But I think that that kind of cooling upgrades must be carefuly engineered, it will need appropriate pump, heat exchanger to work well.
4 intercoolers, a bigger pump, two Front mounted heat exchangers and a remote reservoir should be the ultimate setup.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 8
From: Sweden
2008 MB CL600. 2020 MB E300 de. 1987 BMW M535i.
OK, so those are the intercoolers?
But there are water running there, right..?
And it's common to make them bigger. So I thought they were to be connected with the boot tank (when you have a boot tank, that is).
So either bigger water tanks on top of the engine. Or a secondary tank in the boot. Because I thought it was the same circuit.
F**k, I thought I was getting SOME grip on how that engine works, but now I'm back at square 1 again, or what..?
But I've seen the 4 stock tanks (intercoolers) on the Brabus Vanish.
And Väth do use 2 large ones instead. Se pic.
So you are saying that these are not connected to the boot tank (again, when you have one)..?
PS. Carlsson is just a design company if you ask me, with no clue of tuning! (I have a VEEERY good example of that, but thats another story!)
Väth on the other hand, is alot more refined, and capable! Brabus too, only much bigger than Väth of course.
But Väth has actually squeezed more power out of the V12 (835 HP) than Brabus. I have seen that one in person!
But there are water running there, right..?
And it's common to make them bigger. So I thought they were to be connected with the boot tank (when you have a boot tank, that is).
So either bigger water tanks on top of the engine. Or a secondary tank in the boot. Because I thought it was the same circuit.
F**k, I thought I was getting SOME grip on how that engine works, but now I'm back at square 1 again, or what..?
But I've seen the 4 stock tanks (intercoolers) on the Brabus Vanish.
And Väth do use 2 large ones instead. Se pic.
So you are saying that these are not connected to the boot tank (again, when you have one)..?
PS. Carlsson is just a design company if you ask me, with no clue of tuning! (I have a VEEERY good example of that, but thats another story!)
Väth on the other hand, is alot more refined, and capable! Brabus too, only much bigger than Väth of course.
But Väth has actually squeezed more power out of the V12 (835 HP) than Brabus. I have seen that one in person!
Last edited by maxabo; Aug 17, 2010 at 02:29 PM. Reason: clearifying
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 631
Likes: 2
From: Paris.
E320
OK, so those are the intercoolers?
But there are water running there, right..?
And it's common to make them bigger. So I thought they were to be connected with the boot tank (when you have a boot tank, that is).
And I've seen the 4 stock tanks (intercoolers) on Brabus Vanish.
But Väth is using 2 large ones instead. Se pic.
So you are saying that these are not connected to the boot tank (when you have one)..?
PS. Carlsson is a just design company if you ask me, with no clue of tuning! (I have a VEEERY good example of that, but thats another story!)
Väth on the other hand, is alot more refined, and capable.
But there are water running there, right..?
And it's common to make them bigger. So I thought they were to be connected with the boot tank (when you have a boot tank, that is).
And I've seen the 4 stock tanks (intercoolers) on Brabus Vanish.
But Väth is using 2 large ones instead. Se pic.
So you are saying that these are not connected to the boot tank (when you have one)..?
PS. Carlsson is a just design company if you ask me, with no clue of tuning! (I have a VEEERY good example of that, but thats another story!)
Väth on the other hand, is alot more refined, and capable.
So Intercoolers and liquid reservoir aren't the same part. The intercooler is the place were the Intake air is cooled by the liquid. The reservoir is just an extra capacity for more fluid.
I said you confuse those two because of that sentence "And in the US it's more common to put the larger tanks (or secondary tanks) in the boot..!"
The Trunk reservoir is an additional fluid reservoir, it's not a larger or secondary intercooler.
"
Thanks to you, I just learned that Vath produces Bigger intercooler cores, like Speeddriven.
So there at least two companies building upgraded intercooler cores :
Vath and Speedriven.
BTW, Do you have more pictures of that Vath car ? More info ? Anything is welcome !!!!!!!
Last edited by DCMETRO22Z; Aug 17, 2010 at 02:43 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 8
From: Sweden
2008 MB CL600. 2020 MB E300 de. 1987 BMW M535i.
Just the one with my girlfriend standing in front of the company, and where you can see the rear end of the car... Sort of.
I can not believe now, that I was saticfied with just that one engine pic...
But the info on it I remember, is that it had 692 RWHP, and a lot of cooling stuff to both engine & tranny oil. Also fuel cooling.
And 80mm diameter exhaust is what I remember...
And since I'm now buying my tune (ECU & TCU) from Väth, I'll see if I can get them to send me some pictures of it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 5
From: South FL & NYC
Your worst nightmare...
OK, so those are the intercoolers?
But there are water running there, right..?
And it's common to make them bigger. So I thought they were to be connected with the boot tank (when you have a boot tank, that is).
So either bigger water tanks on top of the engine. Or a secondary tank in the boot. Because I thought it was the same circuit.
F**k, I thought I was getting SOME grip on how that engine works, but now I'm back at square 1 again, or what..?
But I've seen the 4 stock tanks (intercoolers) on the Brabus Vanish.
And Väth do use 2 large ones instead. Se pic.
So you are saying that these are not connected to the boot tank (again, when you have one)..?
PS. Carlsson is just a design company if you ask me, with no clue of tuning! (I have a VEEERY good example of that, but thats another story!)
Väth on the other hand, is alot more refined, and capable! Brabus too, only much bigger than Väth of course.
But Väth has actually squeezed more power out of the V12 (835 HP) than Brabus. I have seen that one in person!
But there are water running there, right..?
And it's common to make them bigger. So I thought they were to be connected with the boot tank (when you have a boot tank, that is).
So either bigger water tanks on top of the engine. Or a secondary tank in the boot. Because I thought it was the same circuit.
F**k, I thought I was getting SOME grip on how that engine works, but now I'm back at square 1 again, or what..?
But I've seen the 4 stock tanks (intercoolers) on the Brabus Vanish.
And Väth do use 2 large ones instead. Se pic.
So you are saying that these are not connected to the boot tank (again, when you have one)..?
PS. Carlsson is just a design company if you ask me, with no clue of tuning! (I have a VEEERY good example of that, but thats another story!)
Väth on the other hand, is alot more refined, and capable! Brabus too, only much bigger than Väth of course.
But Väth has actually squeezed more power out of the V12 (835 HP) than Brabus. I have seen that one in person!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 308
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From: Missouri
E500(Sold), SL500(Sold), C350(Sold), ML350, SL65
Base Line
Guy's here is a Dyno base line of my car that Fluid Motor Union that they work on, these are some great guy's there and I still wanted to the car to be a every day car.
Last edited by geeaccord; Aug 26, 2010 at 07:12 PM. Reason: updated the information..
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From: Lincoln, NE
2005 SL600, 2016 ES300h, 2012 Hayabusa
somebody feel free to tell me I'm wrong but that appears to be really low for an sl65. isnt that only 30 or so more than a stock sl600? I think you might have an intercooler pump issue
Senior Member
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Posts: 308
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From: Missouri
E500(Sold), SL500(Sold), C350(Sold), ML350, SL65
The graph displaying wheel horsepower. Our vehicle is rated at 604BHP and 738TQ at the crank of the motor we loose at the drive train when we dyno...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,768
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From: South FL & NYC
Your worst nightmare...
Your car's dyno seems to be off. A stock 65 is putting anywhere from 525 to 540 rwhp... you on the other hand have modds but it seems to be hurting you rwhp.. Seems you are dynoing less than stock. I would have the car checked out to see what is going on.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 308
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From: Missouri
E500(Sold), SL500(Sold), C350(Sold), ML350, SL65
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...ld-thread.html
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Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
Likes: 20
From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
I'm not sure but from looking around the forums the number seem pretty good from what I saw on other base line dyno like this one below and there is other ones out there...
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...ld-thread.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-...ld-thread.html
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
From: Missouri
E500(Sold), SL500(Sold), C350(Sold), ML350, SL65
Thericker, I cannot really say what kind it was they used but hope that fluid motorunion will jump in and answer some of your question or I can try to find out..
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From: Lincoln, NE
2005 SL600, 2016 ES300h, 2012 Hayabusa
^^ agreed, I am hoping for around 430-440 on my stock 600, that is low as ballz for a 65, you should throw down 500 or so. If you are dynoing that low you have 24% drivetrain loss and that should be expected of an efficient awd system.
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From: Plainfield/ Naperville, IL
A few
We personally feel that our dyno reads a lot lower than people think. We have had more than a few 65's that were bone stock put down around geeaccord's numbers.
Here is a graph of what it did consistently after the modifications. We are personally very happy with these gains especially since the numbers would hold after back to back runs.
Like the owner stated, this car is daily driven and he isn't out to set records! You can see early in the run when torque limiting kicks in due to no TCU tune. We feel the owner has plenty of torque to play with at 700ftlbs to the wheels!
Here is a graph of what it did consistently after the modifications. We are personally very happy with these gains especially since the numbers would hold after back to back runs.
Like the owner stated, this car is daily driven and he isn't out to set records! You can see early in the run when torque limiting kicks in due to no TCU tune. We feel the owner has plenty of torque to play with at 700ftlbs to the wheels!
