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SL55 AMG, SL63 AMG, SL65 AMG (R230) Discuss the SL55, SL63 and SL65 AMG.

Sl55 vs SL65

 
Old 12-19-2013, 07:29 PM
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06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
Ok found it the 65s used a"W5A900 722.649 Transmission" while the 55s used a "W5A580 722.643 Transmission"

SL55 could easily take those Ferrari 360/430 and Lamborghini Gallardo's but the newer ones not so much, unless tunes or mods were included.

Whenever I saw a Lamborghini Gallardo I would always try to mess with them in my old SL55, and prayed they didn't have a UGR kit lmao

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Old 12-19-2013, 09:00 PM
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2005 SL55 AMG
Re: SL65 vs SL55 brakes it seems the SL65 brakes are quite an upgrade from the SL55 from what people say. The SL55 brakes seem fantastic to me - I can't imagine what the SL65 stops like.

I did not realize there were so many differences between the SL55 and SL65. The SL55 caused quite a stir when it debuted in 2003 - fastest auto car in the world, true 203mph (deregulated) top speed. The 65, however, is true supercar territory. While I love my SL55 and am glad I chose it as my first Mercedes (mainly due to maintenance costs, and to get familiar with the R230's) if I still love it as much in a few years as I do today a 65 may be on the horizon.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:12 PM
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"The SC'd cars are either on or off, if the SC is not engaged you can get raped by a 370Z!"

NOT ENGAGED are the key words in the sentence.


Remove the SC belt and give it a go guys or if your IC pump takes a dump, you will see the tailights of a 370Z.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kustom2k1 View Post
"The SC'd cars are either on or off, if the SC is not engaged you can get raped by a 370Z!"

NOT ENGAGED are the key words in the sentence.


Remove the SC belt and give it a go guys or if your IC pump takes a dump, you will see the tailights of a 370Z.
Sure - it's going to be a complete dog with the supercharger unhooked or removed - the entire engine is designed around the supercharger. Without the SC it's a just a low compression engine. But - every one of them has one and it is fully functional so, it's a pretty moot point.

Take the turbo's off a SL65 and you'd have a dog too.

Take the coil packs off a 370z and my riding mower will rape it.

Last edited by vtvette; 12-20-2013 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:13 AM
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My point stems from the fact that the SC SL55 has a unique feature, the SC clutch. This on/off personality which all SL55s exhibit, is more pronounced on a modified SL55.

Many posts titled "I was raped by a riding lawn mower, why is my car so slow" in the 55k section which are related to the intercooler pump no longer functioning.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kustom2k1 View Post
My point stems from the fact that the SC SL55 has a unique feature, the SC clutch. This on/off personality which all SL55s exhibit, is more pronounced on a modified SL55.

Many posts titled "I was raped by a riding lawn mower, why is my car so slow" in the 55k section which are related to the intercooler pump no longer functioning.
I think many missed that point. While I am not a 55 owner, I do have a friend that has a E55...I NEVER knew that the SC has a clutch on the pulley and that it can "disconnect' the SC for limp mode. While this is great for protecting the engine, not good for performance if it just plain fails..if that ever happens. Failed IC pump will decrease your power a smidge, but not as bad as no supercharger. And yes, a low compression V8 would get a$$raped by a high compression V6...
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:31 PM
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OK Gotcha Kustom as ttboost mentioned I missed your point.

It's my understanding that generally the supercharger clutch will start to chirp when it's on its way out. You bring up a good point though if one is planning on running more power the weak link could very well be the SC clutch.

Of all the modded 55's I've read about SC clutch issues have never been mentioned but it should be considered when putting additional power through it.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by V12TTenthusiast View Post
SL63 replaced the SL55 after 2009, the 2009-2012 was the last of the r230s with the facelift, new seats, new steering wheel, updated command unit etc. After that r231 was being made. With the SL63 you can do headers, turbo upgrade, etc and it will be bolt on, but idk if the transmission and axle can handle that much additional power.

I know some people that tried to do that with their 55s with new mods but had to limit torque output since the transmission couldn't handle it when they upgraded there cars

The SL65 have a different transmission and assembly then the 55s and 63s as the 65s have so much power and torque right of of the box and are more bullet proof in regards to transmission
Thanks so it sounds like my sense was right, that 63s are really the sweet spot. Great power and torque out of the box, greater availability of after market parts helping lower TCO and available bolt on performance mods depending on your application. Between the parts cost,e.g.coil packs, brakes, cost of an extended warranty and cost of insurance if your regular carrier will even cover a 65, all keeping pointing me to as late a model 63 as first choice or as late a model 55, as second choice. Thoughts?
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:53 AM
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Luckily we don't have a "wastgate clutch", so we're lucky..we do however have that annoying tranmssion limp mode thing...that ONLY seems to go away in dyno mode.
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
Luckily we don't have a "wastgate clutch", so we're lucky..we do however have that annoying tranmssion limp mode thing...that ONLY seems to go away in dyno mode.
Are the turbo's themselves pretty robust? Producing more boost must shorten their lives to some degree?

I know on your average Japanese car a replacement Turbo runs a grand or two and up.

Any idea the price for Turbo's on a SL65 and have you heard any incidents of failure?
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:01 PM
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Don't know. I'm learning myself. I've never heard of a failure yet. I know they are a K24, (or some variant thereof). They can be upgraded, and vendors have upgrades and kits ready to go. Not sure I want to pay what they're asking, so I may do something myself...
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
Don't know. I'm learning myself. I've never heard of a failure yet. I know they are a K24, (or some variant thereof). They can be upgraded, and vendors have upgrades and kits ready to go. Not sure I want to pay what they're asking, so I may do something myself...
I'm sure there are aftermarket alternatives that would be cheaper than Mercedes and of of course this is an area where DIY would save a fortune. Parts.com has them $5600/each says they retail at $8,000/each from the dealer.

I'm surprised Merceded did not use Ball Bearing Turbo's on the SL although, they were not nearly as common when the cars were new. Audi's have reasonable luck with the KKK chargers (K24's and K26's) but upping the boost (on the Audi) shortens their life considerably. I bet the Audi's are running higher boost than the Mercedes though. The turbo's on a SL can't be putting out that much boost in stock form.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:33 PM
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17-18psi stock...most flashes bring it to 21-23 or so...
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:35 PM
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The problem with the SL65 turbos is the turbine housing is cast as part of the manifold...so if you CHANGE turbos, you need headers/manifolds. That's why everyone usually just tries to just upgrade the compressor wheel...
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
17-18psi stock...most flashes bring it to 21-23 or so...
Wow that's a little more than I suspected. Stock Audi's w/ K24s run 6-7 and K26's will run 11/12.

That's a shame they are cast to the manifold. A GOOD used K24 from an Audi is maybe $200/$300! Most higher mile K24's I've seen have a lot of shaft play (we're taking from the 80's/mid-90's).
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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Some say they saw 20-21 stock. MY car, on the dyno, only saw 18 peak, tapering off from there. That's how I knew it was stock. Audi's don't run a K24. Porsches do. On the 996 platform, we upgraded the K24 compressor wheel to a Mitsu 18g or 20g wheel. Audi's run KO3's and KO4's... My RS6 ran 11psi stock..tuned it to 20psi.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
Some say they saw 20-21 stock. MY car, on the dyno, only saw 18 peak, tapering off from there. That's how I knew it was stock. Audi's don't run a K24. Porsches do. On the 996 platform, we upgraded the K24 compressor wheel to a Mitsu 18g or 20g wheel. Audi's run KO3's and KO4's... My RS6 ran 11psi stock..tuned it to 20psi.
80's and early 90's 10 valve Turbo Audi 5 cylinders ran K24's. My experience with Audi is almost exclusively with the 5 cylinders. I worked in Rally Racing for many years, my early with the former factory Audi team.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:30 PM
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Ahhh old school...fair enough...
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:42 PM
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SL65
Originally Posted by vtvette View Post
I can't believe the cost of brakes for the SL65 vs. the SL55. Someone posted the front rotors run $1500? Genuine Mercedes rotors for my SL55 were $129/each from a Mercedes dealer online.

Are the brakes really that much different between the two?
The breaks are Brembo and so are the rotors. The 05/06 SL65 has 8 piston front calipers and are the biggest that car ever had.in 07 they went to a mono block 6 piston still brembo but smaller.
As far as the 65 break cost on a 06 ,there are 8 pads just for the front 4 in each side. The rotors since they are brembo and are 2 piece the friction rings can be changed and not have to buy the whole rotor. The dealer will only sell a complete rotor and they are like 1200 each , the rings witch are the only part that needs to be replaced are 500 from any brembo dealer and the hardware kit is 181 that gives you all the bobbins and bolts needed to change the rings.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
Ahhh old school...fair enough...
To be fair I should have mentioned "ancient history"!

(doesn't seem that long ago to me but, it never does).
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastnine View Post
The breaks are Brembo and so are the rotors. The 05/06 SL65 has 8 piston front calipers and are the biggest that car ever had.in 07 they went to a mono block 6 piston still brembo but smaller.
As far as the 65 break cost on a 06 ,there are 8 pads just for the front 4 in each side. The rotors since they are brembo and are 2 piece the friction rings can be changed and not have to buy the whole rotor. The dealer will only sell a complete rotor and they are like 1200 each , the rings witch are the only part that needs to be replaced are 500 from any brembo dealer and the hardware kit is 181 that gives you all the bobbins and bolts needed to change the rings.
That is great info for any owner.

You have to wonder how many people needlessly replaced both hats and rotors over the years as the dealer fo course would never mention this.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by vtvette View Post
That is great info for any owner.

You have to wonder how many people needlessly replaced both hats and rotors over the years as the dealer fo course would never mention this.
I did a bunch of research and have a cool service adviser and tech at benz,
I asked them if i bring the parts will they replace.They said yes.
I searched and found the part number for the hardware kit from brembo and found that the friction rings could be ordered as well.
And as well they should be, the whole point is to be able to replace the ring and not the hat.
Somebody also mentioned that the 65 must stop good.Well to answer that my car stops so hard that i could easy make a person crash into the windshield if they were not wearing there seat belt.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:53 AM
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E 63 Renntech, E55 Renntech, SL65, SL 55 030, ML, bunch of old ones--they come, they go...
Having owned...

both (3 55's and 1 65), I would take the 55. I just could not enjoy the 65 as much for constantly worrying about the repairs. Yes, brakes are crazy expensive (remember they are just as expensive for the 030 55). Coils, turbos, intercoolers and pumps...I'm not a track guy, so there was really not as much opportunity to get the goodie out of the 12 cyl. I also found that the 65 didn't run anywhere near as well on normal pump gas as it did on non-ethanol fuel, which you may not be able to get in your area. Just my .02, either way it's a win.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:31 PM
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Hi Fast nine……nice info……do you have Brembo part number for the front and rear brake rotors on the 65? Buying the friction rings are the way to go!!
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by abiazis View Post
Hi Fast nine……nice info……do you have Brembo part number for the front and rear brake rotors on the 65? Buying the friction rings are the way to go!!
No pm me and ill tell you who i called, I'm not sure i can throw out the name here as they are not a vender.
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