SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: The R230 V12TT intake thread...
04-08-2014, 04:56 PM
#51
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2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
from looking at these Renntech air boxes it seems like the air is being fed from the top rather than the bottom which is the case in the stock air box. but then i could be wrong because they still utilize modified stock bottom part of the air box.
Last edited by shardul; 04-08-2014 at 06:40 PM.
04-08-2014, 05:44 PM
#53
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
And at least RENNtech publishes gains for their box, 15hp/15tq for the low, low price of $5500.00 LMAO.
Although, I've seen used boxes go for MUCH less, you're buying this as an aesthetic upgrade, not a performance one. Fifteen whole German horsepowers, doesn't mean squat when you're already above 500whp...
Although, I've seen used boxes go for MUCH less, you're buying this as an aesthetic upgrade, not a performance one. Fifteen whole German horsepowers, doesn't mean squat when you're already above 500whp...
04-08-2014, 07:47 PM
#55
I'm speaking specifically about their quad filter intake. Why no published data or gains on that? That's something people would buy a la cart. Especially in the past before people like Sean did their own work and shared their findings. Years ago I inquired about purchasing their intake. I was told that it was not for sale without the top mounts. I then inquired again about purchasing, roughly a year after that. They hired a guy (can't remember his name) that did more of their forum and social media stuff and was very active on this forum. I got zero response. And this was AFTER I purchased a Speedriven TCU tune. Go figure...
Their website is, and has always been a joke. But if you ask anyone, that Marcin has laid his hands upon their car, they speak of him as a deity. I'm sure his mechanic skills are superb, but his customer facing and retail marketing skills leave much to be desired.
But, that's what these forums and threads are for. We, the membership, will engineer our own god damned solution if the vendors ignore us.
Their website is, and has always been a joke. But if you ask anyone, that Marcin has laid his hands upon their car, they speak of him as a deity. I'm sure his mechanic skills are superb, but his customer facing and retail marketing skills leave much to be desired.
But, that's what these forums and threads are for. We, the membership, will engineer our own god damned solution if the vendors ignore us.
Wow! from the man who is usually so diplomatic this comes as a shock. LOL If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say there is a real reason. The intakes by themselves will give you the volume you need to make more power, but with stock cooling the volume will be of hot under the hood air. As a package, the larger intercoolers can compensate for the additional heat making IATs something that can net some power from the intake tubes. If the intakes were sold separately and they didn't net power, people would think less of the brand that provided them in the first place. I hope you are happy now making me speak for someone else. Again this is just my thoughts. Most likely the same point that Zax63 was trying to make but a little more specific. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses and it is up to us to find what works best for us.
04-08-2014, 08:13 PM
#56
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Wow! from the man who is usually so diplomatic this comes as a shock. LOL If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say there is a real reason. The intakes by themselves will give you the volume you need to make more power, but with stock cooling the volume will be of hot under the hood air. As a package, the larger intercoolers can compensate for the additional heat making IATs something that can net some power from the intake tubes. If the intakes were sold separately and they didn't net power, people would think less of the brand that provided them in the first place. I hope you are happy now making me speak for someone else. Again this is just my thoughts. Most likely the same point that Zax63 was trying to make but a little more specific. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses and it is up to us to find what works best for us.
I know, right?!?! I'm all fired up, Chachi...LOL People making me use words like "deity" and schit.
Your hypotheses seems right, especially since they wouldn't talk to to me unless I was interested in purchasing their upgraded coolers too. We've been asking vendors to make and sell an intake for these cars for years now. Bruce and I started working on a bi-tubular setup a few years ago, which as it turns out, I just didn't have the cycles to put into it, at that point in time. My sons were at the age that needed CONSTANT fathering and my free time was basically non-existent. He sent me some pieces to do a proof of concept with, and I dropped the ball on it. This was right around the time Sean started tinkering on his own, and he basically figured everything out.
04-08-2014, 10:00 PM
#58
Here is another filter setup that hasn't been discussed, Something in line for the 230 boys.
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-co...bye_hello8.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-co...bye_hello8.jpg
04-08-2014, 11:16 PM
#59
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V12-Biturbo
Wow! from the man who is usually so diplomatic this comes as a shock. LOL If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say there is a real reason. The intakes by themselves will give you the volume you need to make more power, but with stock cooling the volume will be of hot under the hood air. As a package, the larger intercoolers can compensate for the additional heat making IATs something that can net some power from the intake tubes. If the intakes were sold separately and they didn't net power, people would think less of the brand that provided them in the first place. I hope you are happy now making me speak for someone else. Again this is just my thoughts. Most likely the same point that Zax63 was trying to make but a little more specific. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses and it is up to us to find what works best for us.
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
Last edited by Thericker; 04-08-2014 at 11:28 PM.
04-09-2014, 05:05 AM
#61
Umm I've been running Speedrivens big IC's for nearly 2 yrs now, I tried the Scorp's pre/post big coolers they dont work in warm weather or after heatsoaking..
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
For me the car performed the best it ever did. Tied for quickest 60 ft on dragtimes. It also ran the best MPH for me without filters.
04-09-2014, 10:12 AM
#64
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I laugh a little on the inside when I read about the 55K guys suffering from heat soak. Our cars, on stock cooling run ~50* above ambient just when cruising and not banging on the car. In the summer, in 90* heat, it's common to see 150* IAT just driving to the office.
I'd really love to see IAT logs from ANY V12TT with a modded intake. Any design, any platform, just.... anything.
I'd really love to see IAT logs from ANY V12TT with a modded intake. Any design, any platform, just.... anything.
04-09-2014, 10:22 AM
#65
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Umm I've been running Speedrivens big IC's for nearly 2 yrs now, I tried the Scorp's pre/post big coolers they dont work in warm weather or after heatsoaking..
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
Eurocharged has also made advancements in the V12TT tune as well. I wonder how much that had to do with Rich's great results, as a tune-only car, vs Jody's hardware packaged car, but older tune, from a different tuner.
Those that don't know, I'm back to the Eurocharged tune on the SL. Don't know if it's faster at the track yet, but certainly feels quicker, and it made more power on the dyno. I will say, whatever Jerry has done to his latest flavor of M275 tune, it just feels better to drive, over what I had. Car was strong before, feels stronger now.
This stuff is all voodoo anyway. Let's just get an intake to the membership that works, and then on to step 2.
04-09-2014, 02:11 PM
#67
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I have monitored my IATs a lot on my SL65 and also on my old SL600 with and without ECU-Tune.
Once the car is really moving, the stock cooling is not that bad as many think.
You must keep in mind (in stock form) the IC-Pump is only switched on when you step on the gas AND IATs are above approx.45C (113F). When the temps get down to approx. 30C again the pump is switched off again. When the car stops in traffic of course the temps go through the roof. But when the car is moving again and you step on the gas they fall really quick. I don't know if anyone here has his IC-Pump always on, this should also help keeping IATs down. I have another solution for this on my car.
Timing is being pulled for our cars above approx. 65-70C (160F) and on my SL65 with ECU-Tune I only come to these high figures when I make a really, really long pull up to aprox. 200-210 MPH on the Autobahn.
I think I will revise my whole IC-System, when I switch to bigger Turbos...
Once the car is really moving, the stock cooling is not that bad as many think.
You must keep in mind (in stock form) the IC-Pump is only switched on when you step on the gas AND IATs are above approx.45C (113F). When the temps get down to approx. 30C again the pump is switched off again. When the car stops in traffic of course the temps go through the roof. But when the car is moving again and you step on the gas they fall really quick. I don't know if anyone here has his IC-Pump always on, this should also help keeping IATs down. I have another solution for this on my car.
Timing is being pulled for our cars above approx. 65-70C (160F) and on my SL65 with ECU-Tune I only come to these high figures when I make a really, really long pull up to aprox. 200-210 MPH on the Autobahn.
I think I will revise my whole IC-System, when I switch to bigger Turbos...
04-09-2014, 02:30 PM
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
Umm I've been running Speedrivens big IC's for nearly 2 yrs now, I tried the Scorp's pre/post big coolers they dont work in warm weather or after heatsoaking..
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
Novel thought your own 1/4 results ecu/tcu w/STOCK coolers & STOCK airboxes w/NO filters nearly equaled Jody's et/trap when he was running the entire Speedriven package. Not putting Speedriven down, just pointing out the ancient Scorpions originated w/Vadim, NOT Speedriven. I'd love to see Speedrivens 1 off CAI that exits engine bay @ work w/their full package.
My understanding is the tune I had when I ran that 10.72 is ancient from what Marcin told me last time. He said the new software and TCU is much improved from 5-6 Years ago. I am waiting for my Coolers package to arrive and we shall see how it does with the new tune etc.
And yes, I told him to save the money on the Scorpion Intakes. I am building my own.
04-09-2014, 04:52 PM
#69
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V12-Biturbo
HAHA my brutha!
Let me join the fun!
My understanding is the tune I had when I ran that 10.72 is ancient from what Marcin told me last time. He said the new software and TCU is much improved from 5-6 Years ago. I am waiting for my Coolers package to arrive and we shall see how it does with the new tune etc.
And yes, I told him to save the money on the Scorpion Intakes. I am building my own.
My understanding is the tune I had when I ran that 10.72 is ancient from what Marcin told me last time. He said the new software and TCU is much improved from 5-6 Years ago. I am waiting for my Coolers package to arrive and we shall see how it does with the new tune etc.
And yes, I told him to save the money on the Scorpion Intakes. I am building my own.
Clayton.. Yeah I've seen the setup before, I meant @ work down 1/4.. Yes I'd be a regular @ the 1/4 & probably learned a ton more by now but closest track worth spit, Famoso is 4-4 1/2 hrs 1 way in GOOD traffic, I've had things lined up w/plans to hit Famoso & twice had coil pack issues few days before event, then 1 fender bender lol... I can't say/plan anything I just havta go outta blue, though it will happen trust me..
What'd you pick up on dyno between the OE EC tunes?
Lastly on gaining perf w/stock boxes, you guys need to truly gut the boxes as I have done in past. Only taking filters out would be in my mind a meager gain as you've found, the multi restrictions in airs pathway finally dump dwn that candy bar sized slit over the actual turbo inlet. Remove it all then sand flat, I'll dig up mine & snap a pic later tday.. PS ecu def needs at least 10 miles to see/adjust for all intake mods, even better if tuned for change on dyno etc..
Last edited by Thericker; 04-09-2014 at 05:08 PM.
04-09-2014, 04:56 PM
#70
Its starting to sound like 2009 around here again. Lol... Its nice to see some V12TT talk its been dead for a while. As for the 215 and maybe 220, I think a little trim of the bumper support right before the inside edge of the headlights and close to the hood bumper stops will allow for some 4" tubing to elbow off the stock openings on the radiator support. It does require the commitment, but with a sawzall, file and touch up paint it maynot be noticeable.
04-09-2014, 08:21 PM
#74
That's pretty much what I did. I still have the little wall, but I don't think any air is even going that way anymore. You said you have proven that this is a decent mod? It actually works? I was going to try this with filters in the engine bay (try to shroud them a bit to catch more fresh air than engine bay air), and then with the intake piping and no filters at all, just sucking freash unfiltered air. Thoughts? My car seems to run pretty good now and not sure how much I can actually pick up. I might get better times with a driver mod.
04-09-2014, 08:40 PM
#75
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V12-Biturbo
As I said gut it all..
That's pretty much what I did. I still have the little wall, but I don't think any air is even going that way anymore. You said you have proven that this is a decent mod? It actually works? I was going to try this with filters in the engine bay (try to shroud them a bit to catch more fresh air than engine bay air), and then with the intake piping and no filters at all, just sucking freash unfiltered air. Thoughts? My car seems to run pretty good now and not sure how much I can actually pick up. I might get better times with a driver mod.
Gotta give props to Soun8, he/she's taught me ALL I know about turbocharging
This quoted from my earlier post..
Lastly on gaining perf w/stock boxes, you guys need to truly gut the boxes as I have done in past. Only taking filters out would be in my mind a meager gain as you've found, the multi restrictions in airs pathway finally dump dwn that candy bar sized slit over the actual turbo inlet. Remove it all then sand flat, I'll dig up mine & snap a pic later tday.. PS ecu def needs at least 10 miles to see/adjust for all intake mods, even better if tuned for change on dyno etc..
Last edited by Thericker; 04-09-2014 at 08:49 PM.
