SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: Hello, possibly getting into a 2010 sl63 Amg
08-21-2014, 02:58 AM
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Sl63?
Hello, possibly getting into a 2010 sl63 Amg
Hello everyone. So iv found myself wanting to get into the newer face lifted version of the sl63 Amg. Questions I have are regarding the motor and rebuild prices. So coming from a procharged 6.1 srt8 300, I was just wondering how much would a rebuild cost? I beat on my daily driver VERY VERY hard. And the car will be my daily. So I know I will be needing a rebuild down the road. I plan on having someone fabricate me a custom procharger set up for the car and I am still looking at options. I understand these cars especially the Amgs are expensive to maintain but the car will be paid off. That's why I plan on doing such drastic engine work to the car. I am not a complete gear head but love fast cars and want to understand these Amg engines. The 6.3 and the sound and power it puts out are incredible. Are their any places that sells custom blocks/rods/pistons and cranks without having to go through the mercedes dealer and spending 20k on a new engine if engine failure would occur? I have my own mechanic that works wonders for me but have not brought it up to him. Money is not really an issue but I'm also considering a srt10 viper. Not to fond of the styling but I would spend an extra 4k on repairs to have the looks and luxury of the SL. Sorry If I sound like a noob I have very little knowledge with engine repairs especially on a hand built engine
Last edited by 6.3Lover; 08-21-2014 at 03:07 AM.
08-21-2014, 05:19 AM
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06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
If your doing a fully built motor, only guys I know that do engine work for internals in Weistec, on their website it states about 6k for pistons and rods, 1k for head studs, 600 for engine bearing set, 500 for engine main bolts, 5k for port and polished heads from them, 1k for valve buckets and 900 for the gasket set, so total is 15 grand and that's not including labor. If you plan on adding their S/C look at another 13-16 grand not including labor
As for overall labor I couldn't tell you but on my 65 I've racked up a lot due to cost of parts within my 30k/2 year ownership but I don't mind, you might not have the same issues since you don't have a crazy engine mount job, brakes, and coil packs, but like all R230s you will have to watch for the ABC
As for overall labor I couldn't tell you but on my 65 I've racked up a lot due to cost of parts within my 30k/2 year ownership but I don't mind, you might not have the same issues since you don't have a crazy engine mount job, brakes, and coil packs, but like all R230s you will have to watch for the ABC
Last edited by V12TTenthusiast; 08-21-2014 at 05:21 AM.
08-21-2014, 05:58 AM
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If your doing a fully built motor, only guys I know that do engine work for internals in Weistec, on their website it states about 6k for pistons and rods, 1k for head studs, 600 for engine bearing set, 500 for engine main bolts, 5k for port and polished heads from them, 1k for valve buckets and 900 for the gasket set, so total is 15 grand and that's not including labor. If you plan on adding their S/C look at another 13-16 grand not including labor
As for overall labor I couldn't tell you but on my 65 I've racked up a lot due to cost of parts within my 30k/2 year ownership but I don't mind, you might not have the same issues since you don't have a crazy engine mount job, brakes, and coil packs, but like all R230s you will have to watch for the ABC
As for overall labor I couldn't tell you but on my 65 I've racked up a lot due to cost of parts within my 30k/2 year ownership but I don't mind, you might not have the same issues since you don't have a crazy engine mount job, brakes, and coil packs, but like all R230s you will have to watch for the ABC
08-21-2014, 09:06 PM
#5
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Just for your information, I do not think they made an SL63 in 2010. They skipped a year. The face lifted SL63 started in 2009. So if someone is selling you a 2010 SL63, I would be worried.
08-21-2014, 09:08 PM
#6
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I think you need to rethink this whole situation.
First, the SL is an amazing car, but has A LOT of complex computers, suspension, etc. This will cost you if it goes bad.
Engine, is amazing. But as noted earlier, there's VERY few tuners out there (Weistec in particular, also Kleemann, and a few other tuners-only), that have mastered doing a supercharger setup and know how to install it and more importantly, how to tune it correctly. One of these engines may cost you $20k used from a donor car, or $55k new from Mercedes (and they won't sell it to you). Going with a completely unknown Procharger setup, in my opinion, will completely head you for disaster and headaches, and very expensive bills, and you can't even be certain of the result you're going to get. This is not the car that you want to try to be a guinea pig on to have your "custom" setup - if you want a fast car, you need to go to the experts that know how to make it fast.
That said, with lots of mods, the 6.3 does very well (from what I've read, I've personally not built one). At the same time, the older supercharged 5.5 engine responds very well to mods as well, and will most likely be cheaper and get you there faster.
And not to sound like a douche, but in the SL, 600 crank hp is honestly "no big deal". In fact, the stock twin-turbo '65 V12 engine comes with 604 crank hp stock, AND 738 lb ft (1000 Nm). Stock. So making "600" big hp in the SL is no big deal. What's great about these V12 motors is that with a tune and nothing else, people are hitting 700+ crank hp and 800+ crank tq. If you want big power, ditch the 6.3 idea and go V12TT. It'll be easier and faster (a tune!) to get power like you won't believe. And you won't have to worry about breaking your $55,000 6.3 V8 engine.
I personally don't have the guts to do a tune; you get 3/4 throttle and the thing is an animal. And if you're thinking 65, and you want to save money, there's a lot of EXCELLENT deals out there on older 05-06 65's. If you want the newer body style, it's going to cost you a LOT more, about $30-40k more. That's some good money to save there.
Regarding the Viper, I'm assuming you're looking at Gen 3's and 4's, but more specifically 4's. Those will be cheaper to mod and will be just as fast, if not faster, with much better reliability. They are so much more simple in EVERY aspect. It's a track car, not a masterpiece. TT's and S/C's are very common on the VCA/VOA/Alley. Lots of successful builds over there.
It's all going to boil down to what you "feel" is the better car for you, SL or Viper. Both are great cars. Both are very different cars. An ultra luxury complex cruiser, or a race-car with simple frame, engine, suspension, and brakes, that will get you around VERY quickly. But definitely do not go down the path of being different and going Procharger if you go SL. Bad idea. But that's just my opinion - I look forward to reading great things about your build if you do. If you want fast but easy, the base-engine pecking order (again, in my opinion, since there have been many successful builds of all three engines) is 6.3 -> 5.5K -> 6.0TT.
Just my $0.025.
First, the SL is an amazing car, but has A LOT of complex computers, suspension, etc. This will cost you if it goes bad.
Engine, is amazing. But as noted earlier, there's VERY few tuners out there (Weistec in particular, also Kleemann, and a few other tuners-only), that have mastered doing a supercharger setup and know how to install it and more importantly, how to tune it correctly. One of these engines may cost you $20k used from a donor car, or $55k new from Mercedes (and they won't sell it to you). Going with a completely unknown Procharger setup, in my opinion, will completely head you for disaster and headaches, and very expensive bills, and you can't even be certain of the result you're going to get. This is not the car that you want to try to be a guinea pig on to have your "custom" setup - if you want a fast car, you need to go to the experts that know how to make it fast.
That said, with lots of mods, the 6.3 does very well (from what I've read, I've personally not built one). At the same time, the older supercharged 5.5 engine responds very well to mods as well, and will most likely be cheaper and get you there faster.
And not to sound like a douche, but in the SL, 600 crank hp is honestly "no big deal". In fact, the stock twin-turbo '65 V12 engine comes with 604 crank hp stock, AND 738 lb ft (1000 Nm). Stock. So making "600" big hp in the SL is no big deal. What's great about these V12 motors is that with a tune and nothing else, people are hitting 700+ crank hp and 800+ crank tq. If you want big power, ditch the 6.3 idea and go V12TT. It'll be easier and faster (a tune!) to get power like you won't believe. And you won't have to worry about breaking your $55,000 6.3 V8 engine.
I personally don't have the guts to do a tune; you get 3/4 throttle and the thing is an animal. And if you're thinking 65, and you want to save money, there's a lot of EXCELLENT deals out there on older 05-06 65's. If you want the newer body style, it's going to cost you a LOT more, about $30-40k more. That's some good money to save there.
Regarding the Viper, I'm assuming you're looking at Gen 3's and 4's, but more specifically 4's. Those will be cheaper to mod and will be just as fast, if not faster, with much better reliability. They are so much more simple in EVERY aspect. It's a track car, not a masterpiece. TT's and S/C's are very common on the VCA/VOA/Alley. Lots of successful builds over there.
It's all going to boil down to what you "feel" is the better car for you, SL or Viper. Both are great cars. Both are very different cars. An ultra luxury complex cruiser, or a race-car with simple frame, engine, suspension, and brakes, that will get you around VERY quickly. But definitely do not go down the path of being different and going Procharger if you go SL. Bad idea. But that's just my opinion - I look forward to reading great things about your build if you do. If you want fast but easy, the base-engine pecking order (again, in my opinion, since there have been many successful builds of all three engines) is 6.3 -> 5.5K -> 6.0TT.
Just my $0.025.
Last edited by Viper98912; 08-21-2014 at 09:15 PM.
08-21-2014, 09:27 PM
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So does anyone know if indy shops or mercedes specialists can tackle Amg engine repairs? All the threads iv read regarding repairs are warranty repairs. I am a DIY guy and would probably do the head studs myself and random maintenance repairs like alternator, starter, belts and fluids ect. Any one had a rebuild done at any others place besides the dealer?
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08-21-2014, 10:22 PM
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I think you need to rethink this whole situation.
First, the SL is an amazing car, but has A LOT of complex computers, suspension, etc. This will cost you if it goes bad.
Engine, is amazing. But as noted earlier, there's VERY few tuners out there (Weistec in particular, also Kleemann, and a few other tuners-only), that have mastered doing a supercharger setup and know how to install it and more importantly, how to tune it correctly. One of these engines may cost you $20k used from a donor car, or $55k new from Mercedes (and they won't sell it to you). Going with a completely unknown Procharger setup, in my opinion, will completely head you for disaster and headaches, and very expensive bills, and you can't even be certain of the result you're going to get. This is not the car that you want to try to be a guinea pig on to have your "custom" setup - if you want a fast car, you need to go to the experts that know how to make it fast.
That said, with lots of mods, the 6.3 does very well (from what I've read, I've personally not built one). At the same time, the older supercharged 5.5 engine responds very well to mods as well, and will most likely be cheaper and get you there faster.
And not to sound like a douche, but in the SL, 600 crank hp is honestly "no big deal". In fact, the stock twin-turbo '65 V12 engine comes with 604 crank hp stock, AND 738 lb ft (1000 Nm). Stock. So making "600" big hp in the SL is no big deal. What's great about these V12 motors is that with a tune and nothing else, people are hitting 700+ crank hp and 800+ crank tq. If you want big power, ditch the 6.3 idea and go V12TT. It'll be easier and faster (a tune!) to get power like you won't believe. And you won't have to worry about breaking your $55,000 6.3 V8 engine.
I personally don't have the guts to do a tune; you get 3/4 throttle and the thing is an animal. And if you're thinking 65, and you want to save money, there's a lot of EXCELLENT deals out there on older 05-06 65's. If you want the newer body style, it's going to cost you a LOT more, about $30-40k more. That's some good money to save there.
Regarding the Viper, I'm assuming you're looking at Gen 3's and 4's, but more specifically 4's. Those will be cheaper to mod and will be just as fast, if not faster, with much better reliability. They are so much more simple in EVERY aspect. It's a track car, not a masterpiece. TT's and S/C's are very common on the VCA/VOA/Alley. Lots of successful builds over there.
It's all going to boil down to what you "feel" is the better car for you, SL or Viper. Both are great cars. Both are very different cars. An ultra luxury complex cruiser, or a race-car with simple frame, engine, suspension, and brakes, that will get you around VERY quickly. But definitely do not go down the path of being different and going Procharger if you go SL. Bad idea. But that's just my opinion - I look forward to reading great things about your build if you do. If you want fast but easy, the base-engine pecking order (again, in my opinion, since there have been many successful builds of all three engines) is 6.3 -> 5.5K -> 6.0TT.
Just my $0.025.
First, the SL is an amazing car, but has A LOT of complex computers, suspension, etc. This will cost you if it goes bad.
Engine, is amazing. But as noted earlier, there's VERY few tuners out there (Weistec in particular, also Kleemann, and a few other tuners-only), that have mastered doing a supercharger setup and know how to install it and more importantly, how to tune it correctly. One of these engines may cost you $20k used from a donor car, or $55k new from Mercedes (and they won't sell it to you). Going with a completely unknown Procharger setup, in my opinion, will completely head you for disaster and headaches, and very expensive bills, and you can't even be certain of the result you're going to get. This is not the car that you want to try to be a guinea pig on to have your "custom" setup - if you want a fast car, you need to go to the experts that know how to make it fast.
That said, with lots of mods, the 6.3 does very well (from what I've read, I've personally not built one). At the same time, the older supercharged 5.5 engine responds very well to mods as well, and will most likely be cheaper and get you there faster.
And not to sound like a douche, but in the SL, 600 crank hp is honestly "no big deal". In fact, the stock twin-turbo '65 V12 engine comes with 604 crank hp stock, AND 738 lb ft (1000 Nm). Stock. So making "600" big hp in the SL is no big deal. What's great about these V12 motors is that with a tune and nothing else, people are hitting 700+ crank hp and 800+ crank tq. If you want big power, ditch the 6.3 idea and go V12TT. It'll be easier and faster (a tune!) to get power like you won't believe. And you won't have to worry about breaking your $55,000 6.3 V8 engine.
I personally don't have the guts to do a tune; you get 3/4 throttle and the thing is an animal. And if you're thinking 65, and you want to save money, there's a lot of EXCELLENT deals out there on older 05-06 65's. If you want the newer body style, it's going to cost you a LOT more, about $30-40k more. That's some good money to save there.
Regarding the Viper, I'm assuming you're looking at Gen 3's and 4's, but more specifically 4's. Those will be cheaper to mod and will be just as fast, if not faster, with much better reliability. They are so much more simple in EVERY aspect. It's a track car, not a masterpiece. TT's and S/C's are very common on the VCA/VOA/Alley. Lots of successful builds over there.
It's all going to boil down to what you "feel" is the better car for you, SL or Viper. Both are great cars. Both are very different cars. An ultra luxury complex cruiser, or a race-car with simple frame, engine, suspension, and brakes, that will get you around VERY quickly. But definitely do not go down the path of being different and going Procharger if you go SL. Bad idea. But that's just my opinion - I look forward to reading great things about your build if you do. If you want fast but easy, the base-engine pecking order (again, in my opinion, since there have been many successful builds of all three engines) is 6.3 -> 5.5K -> 6.0TT.
Just my $0.025.
08-21-2014, 11:45 PM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Very far from a douche. Thanks for the reply lots of great info. The way I'm looking at it, is that if a man made the deisign and built it, another one could build me custom parts for the initial repair and install for half the price. I don't care for depreciation values, I buy the car and drive it to its grave. I basically want the car and want to make it my own. I could deal with 7 to 10k rebuilds a year but 20k for a used engine without installation is just absurd and is what makes me concider getting a viper. The problem is I love big V8 luxury cars and I feel the sl63 fits me perfect. I also do not like the vipers rag top. It's a great car but it really is second choice for me. I know a custom procharged sl sounds crazy but that is why I'm asking for rebuild prices, so I can find the best Indy shop to do the work for me. Also I'm confident that I can make a procharger work with the right team and tuner. I could possibly use an A/F tune similar to weistecs. Like I said this is all a thought
The SL you drive "careless". The amazing technology (when it works) works fantastic. As long as you're below a certain throttle level, the car is a regular car.
So you need to decide what kind of drive for this project you prefer - a nice one, or an involved one? There's nothing wrong with involved, those can be very fun experiences. Or very tight-shouldered rides on your way to work everyday. Depends what kind of experience you're looking for.
Me personally, I'd prefer to tinker with the Viper. Put on a Roe S/C, along with new suspension from Woodhouse, work on the rear end, tweak the brakes slightly, dress up the interior and exterior, do some HRE's, and that would just be a really fun project. On the SL, I see the project more as your "big tune", a few smaller items such as ditching the mufflers, and then after that it's pretty much wheels, interior, and any other dress up items you want to do. There's much more comfortable, awesome, fun work, on the Viper than the SL.
For the money:
- I'd pick up an older SL55 and spend some time modding it. With whatever money you have left, pick up another toy, whether that's a Viper or keep your current beast alongside.
- Or pick up an older SL65, do the tune, and pick up a twisties toy to do some heavy mods to, like a Lotus Elise/Exige.
- Or pick up a Viper and go to town, but keep a "regular" car around, whether that's something new/economical or your current beast.
- And don't waste 10's of thousands of dollars on fixing your broke engine, go get that Exige
Also, you do know that the later Gen 3's and 4's also came in hardtop, in the event you don't like the ragtop? And if you want to really focus on a Viper track car, find yourself a Gen 4 ACR.
08-22-2014, 12:34 AM
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Sl63?
They're two very different driving experiences. There's differences between the Viper Gens (1-4), but for the most part, when you drive the Viper, since they all have the same base DNA, you drive "cautious". Because in the back of your mind, you've read all the stories about how at the moment you least expect it, she bites you. And you're in the ditch. And you didn't do anything wrong?
The SL you drive "careless". The amazing technology (when it works) works fantastic. As long as you're below a certain throttle level, the car is a regular car.
So you need to decide what kind of drive for this project you prefer - a nice one, or an involved one? There's nothing wrong with involved, those can be very fun experiences. Or very tight-shouldered rides on your way to work everyday. Depends what kind of experience you're looking for.
Me personally, I'd prefer to tinker with the Viper. Put on a Roe S/C, along with new suspension from Woodhouse, work on the rear end, tweak the brakes slightly, dress up the interior and exterior, do some HRE's, and that would just be a really fun project. On the SL, I see the project more as your "big tune", a few smaller items such as ditching the mufflers, and then after that it's pretty much wheels, interior, and any other dress up items you want to do. There's much more comfortable, awesome, fun work, on the Viper than the SL.
For the money:
- I'd pick up an older SL55 and spend some time modding it. With whatever money you have left, pick up another toy, whether that's a Viper or keep your current beast alongside.
- Or pick up an older SL65, do the tune, and pick up a twisties toy to do some heavy mods to, like a Lotus Elise/Exige.
- Or pick up a Viper and go to town, but keep a "regular" car around, whether that's something new/economical or your current beast.
- And don't waste 10's of thousands of dollars on fixing your broke engine, go get that Exige
Also, you do know that the later Gen 3's and 4's also came in hardtop, in the event you don't like the ragtop? And if you want to really focus on a Viper track car, find yourself a Gen 4 ACR.
The SL you drive "careless". The amazing technology (when it works) works fantastic. As long as you're below a certain throttle level, the car is a regular car.
So you need to decide what kind of drive for this project you prefer - a nice one, or an involved one? There's nothing wrong with involved, those can be very fun experiences. Or very tight-shouldered rides on your way to work everyday. Depends what kind of experience you're looking for.
Me personally, I'd prefer to tinker with the Viper. Put on a Roe S/C, along with new suspension from Woodhouse, work on the rear end, tweak the brakes slightly, dress up the interior and exterior, do some HRE's, and that would just be a really fun project. On the SL, I see the project more as your "big tune", a few smaller items such as ditching the mufflers, and then after that it's pretty much wheels, interior, and any other dress up items you want to do. There's much more comfortable, awesome, fun work, on the Viper than the SL.
For the money:
- I'd pick up an older SL55 and spend some time modding it. With whatever money you have left, pick up another toy, whether that's a Viper or keep your current beast alongside.
- Or pick up an older SL65, do the tune, and pick up a twisties toy to do some heavy mods to, like a Lotus Elise/Exige.
- Or pick up a Viper and go to town, but keep a "regular" car around, whether that's something new/economical or your current beast.
- And don't waste 10's of thousands of dollars on fixing your broke engine, go get that Exige
Also, you do know that the later Gen 3's and 4's also came in hardtop, in the event you don't like the ragtop? And if you want to really focus on a Viper track car, find yourself a Gen 4 ACR.
08-22-2014, 12:33 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Given your replies, I'd definitely say against viper. For more tuning info, your best bet is to research in the C63 and E63 forums, there's lots of 6.3 modders there. Also but with less traffic, the CLK BS forum. Search this one and the regular R230 for reliability and maintenance (non performance related).
Last edited by Viper98912; 08-22-2014 at 12:35 PM.
08-22-2014, 04:08 PM
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06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
I mean you could also go for the new SL63 with a new 5.5 Bi Turbo, been seeing alot of mods for those, but they still worth a good chuck of change or back to the Older 65, which you can pick up in the 40s now, do downpipes, intakes, ecu/tcu tune with cooling and that's a 700+ hp car at crank and put rest of the money into a black series body kit and face lift it your self. If you have desire to get over 800+ hp thats when it becomes a money pit on the 65s for the R230s esp since all that's left is pretty much turbos. Is it worth it? Idk i'll have to get back to you when my machine guy sends back my turbos and cylinder heads but as of right now my car engine is sitting on a stand lol
08-22-2014, 06:08 PM
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08-23-2014, 12:53 AM
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Sl63?
Wow... What happened? Cracked cylinder head? Or are you getting them ported and polished... Yeah price wise if you could get back to me on that or even PM me when you get it that would be awsome. As nice as the 65's are I love v8's. I think a v8 growl really adds to the driving experience. All of my cars have been fully straight piped.
08-23-2014, 11:33 AM
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06 SL65AMG, 13 Tesla Model S 60kwh, 02 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, 12 S550 4 Matic, 07 E320 Bluetec, 06 LX470
Wow... What happened? Cracked cylinder head? Or are you getting them ported and polished... Yeah price wise if you could get back to me on that or even PM me when you get it that would be awsome. As nice as the 65's are I love v8's. I think a v8 growl really adds to the driving experience. All of my cars have been fully straight piped.
