SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: SL55 vs DB9
05-20-2004, 02:05 AM
#26
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blueSL I just did a bit of research on the internet. A very limited study, I hope the figures are accurate.
No doubt the DB9 will be a great step up from the R129 SL 600.
I am left wondering how the DB9 will deliver much better driver experience that you seek. The DB9 apparently weighs the same as the SL500. Weight seems to be one of the common complaints about the SL.
Is it less electronic intervention that you are hoping for in the DB9?
Other statistics seem to be about the same also. I do not know what the weight of the SL 600 is, or I would have reported that for the comparison.
Engine SL500 V8 ... DB9 V12
Curb weight SL500 (1,844 kg) ... DB9 (1,860 kg)
Length SL 500 (4,535 mm) ... DB9 (4,697 mm)
Width SL 500 (1,827 mm).... DB9 (1,875 mm)
Height SL 500 (1,295 mm) ... DB9 (1,318 mm)
Which transmission will you go for? Since you will have 2 transmission options: 6-spd manual or the optional automatic with shift paddles.
No doubt the DB9 will be a great step up from the R129 SL 600.
I am left wondering how the DB9 will deliver much better driver experience that you seek. The DB9 apparently weighs the same as the SL500. Weight seems to be one of the common complaints about the SL.
Is it less electronic intervention that you are hoping for in the DB9?
Other statistics seem to be about the same also. I do not know what the weight of the SL 600 is, or I would have reported that for the comparison.
Engine SL500 V8 ... DB9 V12
Curb weight SL500 (1,844 kg) ... DB9 (1,860 kg)
Length SL 500 (4,535 mm) ... DB9 (4,697 mm)
Width SL 500 (1,827 mm).... DB9 (1,875 mm)
Height SL 500 (1,295 mm) ... DB9 (1,318 mm)
Which transmission will you go for? Since you will have 2 transmission options: 6-spd manual or the optional automatic with shift paddles.
05-21-2004, 02:21 PM
#27
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Interesting research; the Aston is more directly comparable to the SL55/SL600 or the Ferrari V12s than the SL500; it's definitely slower than any of them but delivers a design purity which I find completely beguiling.
I'm hoping for a purer driving experience with less electronic intervention; the steering for example is said to be more heavily weighted - no finger twirling here - which keeps the driver involved. My views on SBC are well known and I'm looking to be able to feel what the front wheels are doing as I brake heavily in the wet coming up to a sharp left hander. The SLs brakes tell me nothing.
I'll definitely go for the automatic, highly rated, and most here would admit the manual mode on the SL55 is not especially useful. The paddles on the DB9 have a wonderful over-centre action, much better than those on the 355 F1 (which the only Ferrari equivalent I have driven). The feedback through your fingers is so important, like the shutter release action on a Leica Rangefinder camera.
The DB9 is made in quantities somewhere between the 575 and the 360 so nowhere near those of the SL. While elements of the build like the paintwork, leather, instrument panel delight, others are distinctly ho-hum. You can understand that it's not worth paying $250000 for the design and tooling for a light switch when you're only ever going to use 20000 of them. The headlamp switch for the SL will find use in more than 250000 cars over the R230's lifetime, so it's not a problem. The headlamp switch of the DB9, by the way, feels extraordinarily cheap. Ferrari do much better...
Took the SL55 out today, roof down, on what we call the Fosse Way here in the UK, a road laid out by the Romans 2000 odd years ago and in parts as straight as a die with wonderful sight lines. The SL devoured it with aplomb, so I've no complaints.
I'm hoping for a purer driving experience with less electronic intervention; the steering for example is said to be more heavily weighted - no finger twirling here - which keeps the driver involved. My views on SBC are well known and I'm looking to be able to feel what the front wheels are doing as I brake heavily in the wet coming up to a sharp left hander. The SLs brakes tell me nothing.
I'll definitely go for the automatic, highly rated, and most here would admit the manual mode on the SL55 is not especially useful. The paddles on the DB9 have a wonderful over-centre action, much better than those on the 355 F1 (which the only Ferrari equivalent I have driven). The feedback through your fingers is so important, like the shutter release action on a Leica Rangefinder camera.
The DB9 is made in quantities somewhere between the 575 and the 360 so nowhere near those of the SL. While elements of the build like the paintwork, leather, instrument panel delight, others are distinctly ho-hum. You can understand that it's not worth paying $250000 for the design and tooling for a light switch when you're only ever going to use 20000 of them. The headlamp switch for the SL will find use in more than 250000 cars over the R230's lifetime, so it's not a problem. The headlamp switch of the DB9, by the way, feels extraordinarily cheap. Ferrari do much better...
Took the SL55 out today, roof down, on what we call the Fosse Way here in the UK, a road laid out by the Romans 2000 odd years ago and in parts as straight as a die with wonderful sight lines. The SL devoured it with aplomb, so I've no complaints.
Last edited by blueSL; 05-21-2004 at 04:14 PM.
05-24-2004, 06:57 PM
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SL500
Blue SL
I'm thinking of getting an AM V8 instead of the SLK55.
Do you have any info on it from the aston dealer you spoke to?
Its rumoured to be 60k ish & available from 2005. Sounds perfect.
I'm thinking of getting an AM V8 instead of the SLK55.
Do you have any info on it from the aston dealer you spoke to?
Its rumoured to be 60k ish & available from 2005. Sounds perfect.
05-24-2004, 10:50 PM
#29
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They're billing it as a harder edged car than the DB9, intended to compete with the likes of the standard 911. I've asked about it and they expect it to be out "this time next year". It's certainly an option for me to consider as well.
I think the SLK is encouraging in terms of Mercedes putting some sporting feel in their cars - I don't think it's a case of "putting back" because they never had it, but if you think the SL55 marked a move in the right direction, the SLK seems to continue the trend.
I think the SLK is encouraging in terms of Mercedes putting some sporting feel in their cars - I don't think it's a case of "putting back" because they never had it, but if you think the SL55 marked a move in the right direction, the SLK seems to continue the trend.
05-25-2004, 01:09 AM
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996 Turbo
Originally posted by NastyAluQuadra
Blue SL
I'm thinking of getting an AM V8 instead of the SLK55.
Do you have any info on it from the aston dealer you spoke to?
Its rumoured to be 60k ish & available from 2005. Sounds perfect.
Blue SL
I'm thinking of getting an AM V8 instead of the SLK55.
Do you have any info on it from the aston dealer you spoke to?
Its rumoured to be 60k ish & available from 2005. Sounds perfect.
06-01-2004, 04:40 AM
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Blue SL-
I'm seriously considering the same trade (Sl55 for DB9) and would be most interested in your reaction to the DB9 when you actually get your hands on one. When do you think that will happen?
I'm seriously considering the same trade (Sl55 for DB9) and would be most interested in your reaction to the DB9 when you actually get your hands on one. When do you think that will happen?
06-01-2004, 12:29 PM
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14 'E550
The AMV8 won't come in at a dime under $80k U.S......I'm guessing more in the lines of $90k+.
If it were any cheaper, AM wouldn't even be able to keep up with the demand. There would be like a 5 year wait list for the car.
Even the Maserati coupe MSRPs for almost $90k.
If it were any cheaper, AM wouldn't even be able to keep up with the demand. There would be like a 5 year wait list for the car.
Even the Maserati coupe MSRPs for almost $90k.
06-01-2004, 01:03 PM
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SL500
The price point will hopefully be the 997 911.
This starts at GBP57k in the UK. What do they cost in the US?
The AM V8 should aim for this but I fear it maybe quite alot more.
This starts at GBP57k in the UK. What do they cost in the US?
The AM V8 should aim for this but I fear it maybe quite alot more.
06-01-2004, 01:11 PM
#34
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I'm expecting a test drive in the next few months; current delivery date is sometime in 2006; when I visited their amazing factory a few weeks ago, real cars were being made but with restricted spec and options, just like the SL launch edition.
The size of the trunk remains an issue - my Ferrari is much better, but it's the most fabulous car to look at, a real head turner. Makes the SL look fussy, girly. Wish they had spent a couple of thousand extra on some of the switch gear and centre console, but the instrument panel is to die for. A rather better car from the driver's seat than the passenger's so if you're looking to impress your main squeeze, maybe look elsewhere.....
The size of the trunk remains an issue - my Ferrari is much better, but it's the most fabulous car to look at, a real head turner. Makes the SL look fussy, girly. Wish they had spent a couple of thousand extra on some of the switch gear and centre console, but the instrument panel is to die for. A rather better car from the driver's seat than the passenger's so if you're looking to impress your main squeeze, maybe look elsewhere.....
06-01-2004, 10:34 PM
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No, the car is strictly for me. My "main squeeze" seems more interested in her Yukon XL (because of all the horse equipment it can carry/tow).
On the subject of luggage capacity, here's something to think about - the rear seat of a DB-7/9 can be used to carry a couple of duffle bags or the like if you're traveling. (Orvis has two very nice all-leather duffles suitable for this purpose.) Also, the A-M dealer here in San Francisco offered to replace the rear seats of my DB-7 with a kind of parcel shelf. Problem is, of course. matching the leather.
A-M sometimes can be persuaded to do some "alterations" at the factory; they used to have some sort of custom shop at the factory to cater to clients' desire for more HP, etc. (All at a price, of course.) If you get a chance, you might ask if they would put a parcel shelf in a DB-9 - I'd be very interested in the response. You might wind up with something a little like the shelf in the back of a Ferrari 550/575, with leather straps, etc. It would be unique (well, almost - I want one too), useful and quite attractive.
On the subject of luggage capacity, here's something to think about - the rear seat of a DB-7/9 can be used to carry a couple of duffle bags or the like if you're traveling. (Orvis has two very nice all-leather duffles suitable for this purpose.) Also, the A-M dealer here in San Francisco offered to replace the rear seats of my DB-7 with a kind of parcel shelf. Problem is, of course. matching the leather.
A-M sometimes can be persuaded to do some "alterations" at the factory; they used to have some sort of custom shop at the factory to cater to clients' desire for more HP, etc. (All at a price, of course.) If you get a chance, you might ask if they would put a parcel shelf in a DB-9 - I'd be very interested in the response. You might wind up with something a little like the shelf in the back of a Ferrari 550/575, with leather straps, etc. It would be unique (well, almost - I want one too), useful and quite attractive.
Last edited by White Knight II; 06-01-2004 at 10:41 PM.
06-01-2004, 11:37 PM
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After seeing the car without the interior, the issue with the architecture of the car is that there's the large V12 lump set well back (in 575/612 style) and the gearbox mounted at the back, together giving even weight distribution and a reduced polar moment of intertia.
All well and good, but this impinges on the space in the cabin. The engine creates a wide centre console and relatively cramped footwells, the gearbox creates this big lump in the middle at the back of the passenger compartment and the token rear seats are put there just to do something with the wells created either side of the gearbox, even if they are pretty much unusable. It's almost as if they scratched their heads and asked: "Well, what else could we do with the space?"
In the SL, we know they are put to good use with the storage bins and a flat shelf and of course, some of the car's electronics sits underneath the one where the CD changer isn't which is why it isn't as deep. All in all, the SL is a packaging masterpiece. The Aston is a bigger car and feels cramped inside compared to the SL.
All well and good, but this impinges on the space in the cabin. The engine creates a wide centre console and relatively cramped footwells, the gearbox creates this big lump in the middle at the back of the passenger compartment and the token rear seats are put there just to do something with the wells created either side of the gearbox, even if they are pretty much unusable. It's almost as if they scratched their heads and asked: "Well, what else could we do with the space?"
In the SL, we know they are put to good use with the storage bins and a flat shelf and of course, some of the car's electronics sits underneath the one where the CD changer isn't which is why it isn't as deep. All in all, the SL is a packaging masterpiece. The Aston is a bigger car and feels cramped inside compared to the SL.
06-02-2004, 02:45 AM
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I'm not sure I'm following you, since the situation seems ideal for some kind of parcel shelf (or perhaps two small ones), rather than a pair of perfectly useless rear seats.
06-02-2004, 03:15 PM
#38
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Sorry, to be clear. The top of the gearbox is higher than might be imagined so that a flat full width shelf would also be quite high. There would be space for two oddly shaped storage cubbies either side of the gearbox and I certainly agree this should be an option.
A test report in the UK's Autocar rates the car highly, 4.5/5, with the main criticsims being heavy brakes and steering and road noise. Some others have said they like the heavier controls, matching more the character of the car so down to personal choice. As for road noise, those 19 inch rims may look good and improve handling but they impart a harsher ride. They rated the SL as 5/5 at the time, though it might be the game has moved on and perhaps the SL would not now score so highly, especially now the SBC dream has turned into a nightmare.
They thought the trunk space was OK, I guess it depends on what you're used to.
A test report in the UK's Autocar rates the car highly, 4.5/5, with the main criticsims being heavy brakes and steering and road noise. Some others have said they like the heavier controls, matching more the character of the car so down to personal choice. As for road noise, those 19 inch rims may look good and improve handling but they impart a harsher ride. They rated the SL as 5/5 at the time, though it might be the game has moved on and perhaps the SL would not now score so highly, especially now the SBC dream has turned into a nightmare.
They thought the trunk space was OK, I guess it depends on what you're used to.
06-02-2004, 10:05 PM
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Go back to 2001 and read the R230 launch stuff: SBC is billed as being a significant technical innovation.
The reality has been disappointing and there's hardly a rush from other manufacturers to do "brake by wire", nor have the press been foaming at the mouth saying SBC is the future.
We now have concerns about safety, hence the world-wide recall of all SL and E Class cars (800000) and long term reliability has always been a concern as has cost to fix.
Turns out Mercedes and Bosch are not making any money out of it (so why do it, they're not a charity) and it seems likely it's been quietly dropped. The upcoming S class replacement is said to be a technical tour-de-force so likely more misery ahead for those customers. Will it feature SBC? I doubt it will be in any future Mercedes. SL, E, Maybach, SLR, that's it.
I have to belive there's someone in Unterturkheim who is holding their head in their hands and saying "Why did we go there?"
The reality has been disappointing and there's hardly a rush from other manufacturers to do "brake by wire", nor have the press been foaming at the mouth saying SBC is the future.
We now have concerns about safety, hence the world-wide recall of all SL and E Class cars (800000) and long term reliability has always been a concern as has cost to fix.
Turns out Mercedes and Bosch are not making any money out of it (so why do it, they're not a charity) and it seems likely it's been quietly dropped. The upcoming S class replacement is said to be a technical tour-de-force so likely more misery ahead for those customers. Will it feature SBC? I doubt it will be in any future Mercedes. SL, E, Maybach, SLR, that's it.
I have to belive there's someone in Unterturkheim who is holding their head in their hands and saying "Why did we go there?"
06-08-2004, 11:40 AM
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Mercedes C400, BMW X3
Aston Factory visit
I just had the pleasure of a factory visit to Aston Martin in Gaydon. Very impressive facility, particularly compared to the AMG factory I saw two weeks earlier.
I thought the DB9 was magnificent, a clear step up in quality versus the SL, particularly on the interior pieces. Engine note was fantastic- just what I was hoping for. I found the seat to be one of the most comfortable ever, but I wished for perforated leather and a cooling system, since it was very hot. I am short so I did not notice interior packaging problems.
I am considering the Volante in BRG.
I thought the DB9 was magnificent, a clear step up in quality versus the SL, particularly on the interior pieces. Engine note was fantastic- just what I was hoping for. I found the seat to be one of the most comfortable ever, but I wished for perforated leather and a cooling system, since it was very hot. I am short so I did not notice interior packaging problems.
I am considering the Volante in BRG.
06-08-2004, 01:50 PM
#44
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I'm pleased you like the car, shoes. Felt like a voice in the wilderness up to now!!
What so impressed me when I visited was that the people there are having a BALL. They are loving what they are doing and are so proud of what they've achieved. I am sure the AMG people enjoy their work as well, but putting the AMG label on anything which moves must grate. I think the AMG brand is being over-exploited.
What so impressed me when I visited was that the people there are having a BALL. They are loving what they are doing and are so proud of what they've achieved. I am sure the AMG people enjoy their work as well, but putting the AMG label on anything which moves must grate. I think the AMG brand is being over-exploited.
Last edited by blueSL; 06-08-2004 at 01:59 PM.
06-08-2004, 09:51 PM
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Cancelled my Conti #2 spot,went to DB9 intro on Friday ,ordered California Sage Green Volante for my wife(Spring delivery).
Also changed my 612 order to 600 Imola(2006)
Also changed my 612 order to 600 Imola(2006)
06-10-2004, 09:10 AM
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Mercedes C400, BMW X3
Why did you cancel the Conti order?
Just out of curiousity- why did you cancel your Conti order? Have you driven the Conti yet? I have an order on this car as well, but feel conflicted about it.
By the way, there is a good article in this month's Car Magazine comparing the Conti and the DB9 and favoring the DB9 because of its authenticity. They called the Conti a Phaeton Coupe.
By the way, there is a good article in this month's Car Magazine comparing the Conti and the DB9 and favoring the DB9 because of its authenticity. They called the Conti a Phaeton Coupe.
06-10-2004, 11:24 AM
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Did drive it,was not excited about performance(coming from 600),did not feel "special"enough to be a "leisure" car,the planned production #s are too high for the car to be "exclusive",could be an alternative to MB for a daily driver(I prefer any 600 though)
The interior did not have the real Bentley "aura" in my mind.
Did I mention it was very heavy? (I have an SUV already)
The interior did not have the real Bentley "aura" in my mind.
Did I mention it was very heavy? (I have an SUV already)
06-12-2004, 08:03 PM
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Mercedes C400, BMW X3
I drove the Bentley today
I drove the Conti today and agree with the observation that it drives like a Phaeton Coupe. Incredibly heavy (especially those doors) and not particularly sporty. I would definately take the DB9 over this.
06-17-2004, 02:16 PM
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I note that you (in the US) have been informed of the 600 Imola. I have had a deposit down on this for 3 years, originally a 360 and then I got fed waiting and got an SL55 (great car BTW).
What info do you have on the Imola?
thanks
DB1
What info do you have on the Imola?
thanks
DB1
06-17-2004, 08:46 PM
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Nothing is confirmed yet,including the name.
So far I heard about Enzo's sourced engine,all alloy structure like the 612's,bigger and roomier then 575,HP around 600 and possibly Audi's DSG type transmission they(Ferrari) are supposedly working on.
So far I heard about Enzo's sourced engine,all alloy structure like the 612's,bigger and roomier then 575,HP around 600 and possibly Audi's DSG type transmission they(Ferrari) are supposedly working on.
