ttus

need feedback from high output/hand made engine AMG owners(specifically amg owners prior to 2004 +/-). has anyone started to have problems with current fuel used that has the ethanol/methanel mix in fuel pumps (10%). This 10% is significantly effecting my engine start or cranking with the fuel injectors, since i full throttle often when i do drive it on occassion.

i am having kickup problems. the fuel is not getting solidly to the fuel injectors. MB told me to replace fuel injectors. something is hurting or damaging my fuel injectors. did a transmission flush and a technician said he could smell the alcohol from the pan after removal. This AMG practically has less than 28k miles with all MB service receipts; it seems they only want to replace parts even after stating my engine parts and car are in immaculate like new condition(including valves) without really telling the full story.!

my AMG is one of the first batch prior to mercedes engines to auto recognize ethanol. these gas companies and/or government are killing these gas engines! does anyone smell lawsuits?

also point link to discissions....from outside fed or state or independant watchdogs.

Ausmbtech

So they could smell alcohol in the transmission pan? I think you might be getting a bit of mis-information.

What symptoms do you have?
What has been done so far?
How long have you had the symptoms?

ttus

seafoam dangerous; unnecessary smoke from added chemical. however; talking in various domestic and import forums; i was advised due to the fact that amg engines are handmade and/or assembled to use the b12 and/or fp60. i havent tried any of these chemicals yet

i have never used anything less than 93 octane. and believe it makes a difference. i picked up my r170.5 on european delivery program and had a special factory tour(s) of the mercedes and the AMG centers. AMG studio is ridicucously awesome and unexplainable.

Morever; i noticed when in europe i only used 98 octane and 96 octane(where is wasn't available). brought the car back to the usa and the torque and hp is very noticable. i thought usa mercedes tuned it down or something!

prior to 2008 i have never noticed these 10% ethanol signs. Morever, i am a firm believer of one fuel type! i have used shell 93 octane since the USA road driving with some mobil one fuel back then; consistently. There is thorough research out in the UK of high important it is to use the maximum octane as possible for european high-end cars. month after month and year after year i have used only shell 93. i have seen stupid people put less than 93 octane in porsche's and seen serious problems with their under $60k porsches'.(no one would think of less in a 911 turbo and up)

look, i know what i am experiencing. i race rotax max spec class engines(those who don't know, this is a world class spec competition held throughout the various countries--ultimately to meet every year @ a pre-determined world grand finals--like formula 1). And we have noticed that the pump fuels are damaging the engines and/or hindering these rotax engines causing the tuners to wrongly adjust the jets.(we determined of the weight of the fuel is effecting and affecting the rotax engine). over thinking the fuel is running too lean and adjusting the tech settings of these carburators. We use ony spec fuel and vp fuel ms-93 and ms98 on these rotax makes a huge difference compared to pump fuel(if not the calibrations are thrown off)

So there is a definite parralel of these engines(rotax's revs to and past 14,500 rpm, ICA class can rev to 19k rpm) and the high performance amg engines. because its really important these engines effectively run @ maximum throttle. And i max my rpm on the AMG when i can to keep the engine lively and to maintain that grunt idle and throttle.

ON the autobahn i have with the restricter removed(at mercedes factory, cost 1600 euros{back then}) hit consistently on this r170 amg speeds of 180+mph for durations of 25-50 miles in range with highway cornering banks. And with such use i have never had a problem. i have replaced my fuel injectors after the r170.5 warrantly expiration just to make sure everything was factory like; this includes replacing hoses, bushings etc, etc, etc. MB tech said my valves were like factory new.(had engine diagnosed for signs of carbon, to see in the future if i needed my engine blue printed). Because i am keeping this r170.5 as classic.

fuel injectors don't just get clogged; especially if one takes care of their car with respective OEM fuel injection cleaning and highest quality fuel and constant mercedes benz checkups( under the guidance and supervision of mercedes trained factory technicians both in europe and USA)

so anyone have any idea. my car is literally showroom detail and impeccable exterior and interior details. the insides still smells new after 9 years.(no chemicals additive in the interior) it only has 28k miles!

ttus

FYI: if as an AMG owner you don't full open the throttle; it may not be an issue but with added ethanol and methanol; it definitely affects extreme high performance engines! They need to have have regular petrol stations throughout the USA metro areas for these types of cars--these types of cars are limited! We paid a luxury tax for it; so high-end car owners should demand it!

ttus

it seems alot of people have no clue to what is happening to these AMG engines. And there are a lot less owners of these r170.5.

however, there is an interesting comment in another forum:

RunRite fuel system cleaner - LS1 Performance Information

"...the Lucas fuel system treatment is excellant.I use it at every fill up.With the crap they are mixing with the gas today you need something to protect the fuel system.I would be EXTREMELY carefull adding ANY additive in car that is over 4 years old unless you know the condition of the fuel system.A sudden shot of cleaner through a dirty scaley ethanol damaged fuel system will kill it for sure.I'd start out very slow.By the way ALL the ls1 engines have trouble with rust in the fuel rails and lines because gm didn't use quality materials,

in fact they use BARE CARBON STEEL! mix that with an oxygen carrying fuel like ETHANOL and you got a mess your eyes won't believe.ASK ME HOW I KNOW.I use 1 oz of lucas per tankful of fuel and havnt seen the trouble return.The 1st time the fuel system failed we had been using 10% ethanol Sunoco prem gas.

It only lasted 10k miles before the Ethanol ate through the fuel rail.The trouble with ethanol fuels is they are oxygen carrying,that means they COLLECT water vapor and there is no way to stop this action.SO...every time you fill up you get a shot of water too,let that sitting in the bare carbon steel fuel rail along with ethanol and before you can say jack rabbit slim you have a rusted mess."....

moreover, on another forum of different users:

http://www.nissanforums.com/b13-91-9...fp60-lube.html

..."Third, is Fuel Power (FP60). This, I found to be the most helpful product. At the same time I started the Auto-RX treatment, I started using 1oz. FP60 mixed with 5 gallons of gas every fill up in my Sentra and Saturn. What I noticed in my Sentra is that my fuel pump, which prior to FP60 would whine loudly for about 10-15 seconds after a 75 mile road trip became silent.

Also, the injector problems of needing to replace injectors or rough idle were eliminated. Actually, the idle became very steady after long term use. At first, it was not as smooth. Also, using all these products gained the best highway economy ever. On a trip to my parents I usually would get 33 miles per gallon, and I was able to get 35 miles per gallon after using everything.

My Saturn also has been getting better fuel economy using the same oil (Havoline 5w-30). Also, the 12 pieces of power equipment I own have no starting problems using last years fuel treated when treated with FP60. I was religious about getting rid of old gas due to fuel related problems which required carburetor rebuilds (expensive)!"....

And these patterns of reports however subtle and through indirect knowledge these persons' were in one way or another experienced or are experiencing what i am on my current r170.5 AMG. But these persons' are making a workaround solution. Why should i have to on a vehicle that i paid an excessive tax--"LUXURY TAX" in addition to the standard state/federal tax. No where in the instructions manuel does it say that i need to deviatedfrom the fuel requirements that was stated on the OEM owners manuels(it says use premium, preferably 93 octane in the USA)! Morever, oil companies and/or refiners do NOT state @ petrol stations, with legal signage(indicative of premature fuel rail/system failures), anything more than that their respective american gas(petrol) will be toxic or damaging(more significantly than normal) of high performance engine owners!!!



Also, there is a difference in the octane levels between europe and the americas. The petrol is better refined(more quality). There is a research paper out in the UK that has done extensive testing in the 90's and 21st century! They used american and european cars and US type fuels and Euro petrol. Even diesels.

The cars i have rented over the course of many years in europe compared to US rentals shows me that the euro rentals with euro petrol are more torquey; all the while with more strict emission requirements on the european autos than the USA. Moreover, the western european autos exceeding california's emission requirement and/or equal to in germany, france, england, etc...

in essence there is a significant subtle issue of petroleum refinement and therefore, octane quality and levels of fuel efficiencies!(octane levels)

ttus

ethanol fuel mix is damaging the mercedes-amg enginess especially those prior of 2003 and older and also cars from 2001-2007. The EPA is now trying to increase ethanol upto 15% or over from cars 2007 and newer. This amount will surely show signs of engine damage.
ethanol is hydrophilic and thereby corrosive to the engine and entire the fuel rail system! one should very rarely ever have to replace a fuel injection system and internal engine parts with low milage.
A hydrophilic membrane will not be fouled or stopped oil, grease or other hydrophobic substances. The membrane is highly attractive to water so the water molecules will push away other molecules in order to gain access to the membrane. Once formed, hydrogen bonds are quite stable and reluctant to break apart.(for the chemist buffs)
everyone needs to muster and contact their necessary representatives and manufacturer's, technician's, etc and put a stop to this ethanol mixture. Or at least many stations that are absolutely free of ethonal!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-sources-EPA-expected-to-OK-apf-1210895536.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&cc ode=
http://www.masterresource.org/2010/08/ethanol-counterattack/
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/sep/29/ethanol-in-autos-being-questioned/
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/tesoro-sues-california-over-ethanol-mandate-1527/
http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&conten tId=35692
http://blog.thetruthaboutethanol.org/?p=35

this is what happens when your fuels lines are over time eaten up by ethanol regardless if it is for boats or small engines or etc......
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr...ne/news-metro/
the key is point is that regardless on what engine vehicle its the resting phase of the engine that causes the damage!
"The problem is that most boats sit for long periods of time without use. When ethanol-blended fuels sit in a gas tank for a long time, the ethanol begins to separate from the gasoline.
When engines consume pure ethanol, a highly corrosive solvent, the results can be disastrous. In addition to unraveling fuel lines, it can loosen sludge, varnish and dirt inside the gas tank, causing fuel lines and carburetors to clog."
"ethanol eats away at the fuel line, causing it to fail, like a collapsing tunnel"
"if water is in the gas tank or engine, the ethanol will separate form the gasoline and bond with the water, that means pumping a mixture of ethanol and water into the engine, if this happens there could be stalling or more jittery engine repsonses....the key is none use of vehicle...the less you use the engine, the more that the ethanol will separate from the gasoline(petrol).

Some people are so dead, they don't vote, they write letters to respective district city or counties officials; they just expect others to fix the fixes. every concerned voice must be heard. but then again most people probably don't have true sports car? this is not about clean energy.
its about corrupted politicians and officials hurting the economy and regular middle class person's. Germany makes some of the most cleanest car--without ethanol! if people don't speak up...soon this country will be deader than dead! All the successful people might just flea due to over-regulation after over regulations.

if nobody takes on these issues what use are these amg engines with out pure petrol!

calemonlaw

I have had the same problem with the MB CLS55 AMG: literally, no joke and no exaggeration, I have had ten bent wheels so far. The receipts for service at Wheel Techniques, Santa Clara, CA, are available.For cosumer problems I went for legal advice in my state. I got the perfect solution for my car problems. Its free initial consultation. Very happy to share here.