Peter_02AMG

Exactly right! that what Cory from Kleemann told me from the beginining .5 bar! People that install it was suprise it only making 5.5 psi too.

http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/per...cts/kompressor

I told them they might have gaving me the wrong S/C pulley than they came back and say that I had the right pulley and the s/c only make 5.5 to 6 psi.

So if that the case than Kleemann NEW S/C kit only make 400-410 HP and that exactly what I'm making right now @ 5.5 psi

302whp Baseline vs. 348whp S/C ~46WHP is NOT worth $15,000 grand!!

jimmydagreek

Wow this sucks! I have no idea about Kleemann and their products but Peter's a good guy and it sucks to see this happening. Peter, you need to go back to the shop and show them all of the posts in this thread and MAKE THEM FIX YOUR CAR!!!

Peter_02AMG

I'm trying very hard to satisfy their rediculous questions. I even went to a different dyno to rule out any possibilty that the first dyno was wrong. We spent hours with dyno shop testing with New MAF sensor, belt slippage different boost gauges and everything they could think of and we conculded that the supercharge is only making to 5.5 to 6 psi. It has the potential to make more but limited to the pulley.

I don't have the time or money to do this anymore, at $150/hrs on dyno it add up quick. I shouldn't be spending my own money to chase down there design problem. I told them this and it seen like they don't want to take the responsibilities for Kleemann and Kleemann don't want to admit to it False advertising on there website.

I guess it cheaper to paid a lawyer $150hrs than to waste any more of my time. Beside i'm going back to the midwest pretty soon. This is really sucks!..

jeff.bisonett

Sounds like Kleemann owes you a smaller pulley.

armaniE55

Eurosport

well that sucks big time,

maybe the only option that could get results might be kleemann itself, it's their product afterall, they should be able to troubleshoot it and get it right.
going back to original installer won't do much imo, like Ted said somewhere earlier, it might cost more due to the distance but less in the long run

Tacjam

This all sound like the HPS supercharger crap I've read. Peter, the installer that installed your Supercharger is a recommended Kleeman supercharger installer? If so i would start calling Kleeman direct. As you stated, you just paid 15K for 48hp.....that's a little more than you can get from Headers...10% or 35hp and X-pipe another 5hp. You also said you have Stage II..WTF, they better do right by you!

Jim

Peter_02AMG

Matrix is a Kleemann dealer in Portland OR. They have no idea how to troubleshoot the problem. I relay my problem to Matrix than they relay it to Kleemann. What Kleemann think is the problem they relay it to Matrix than they relay it to me. It back and forth, back and forth.

They never once offer me to take the car back so they can try to troubleshoot it because I don't think they know what the problem is. They just parts installer.

Peter_02AMG

I think that why you have a different pulley on your S/C. I noticed your pulley is smaller than the one from Kleemann. Maybe the previous owner had the same problem I do and gotten a smaller pulley. I would mind trying a different pulley to see what happen.

Jeff, Have you try hooking up a boost gauge to see what your S/C is making?

Ted Baldwin

.............exactly!

Ted

SleepersRock

Sorry for the thread hijack, but will headers really give you 35hp boost? I am assuming this is at the crank also?

Vicc430DP

So what happen? Did they fix the problem? I'm too thinking of buying a kleemann or a used HPS / mechtech supercharger. hps kit is 7k for 100 hp and kleemann says 14k for 150 hp and u only got 50 something hp.

Peter_02AMG

Right now they are doing nothing about it but more pointing finger, no one want to step up and do something about it to correct the problem.

I recently had a S/C belt problem that I bring to Matrix/Kleemann attention. The belt shredded this weekend, because the belt in not seated on the idler pulley correctely. I did point it out to the installer when I take delivery of my car. Matrix say it was ok and that it was a Kleemann design. Cory responded to my email saying that they knew 30% of the car needed spacers between the idler pulley bracket to offset the pulley and did nothing to notify the installer/customer about putting spacer in if needed.

Now my belt is all mess up and Kleemann is blamning the installer for not putting spacer in to align it and Matrix sad Kleemann never meantion it need spacer so no one is willing to pay for the extra labor cost to correct the problem. They are pointing finger at each other and in the end I'm the one who get to hold the bag.

I'm hiring a lawyer to look into this matter. Lawyer said Kleemann don't delivery the number they promised on there website they can sue them for false advertising.

I don't recommend the Kleemann Gen 2 S/C. not worth the money. DO your research and learn from my mistake.

jeremyw

Hi Peter,

As we've mentioned to you, FAME's dyno numbers are irrelevant since you dynoed stock at CarbConn before the s/c install. We need to be only looking at pre and post numbers from the SAME dyno (CarbConn's). Pre-dyno numbers from CarbConn and post-dyno numbers from FAME do no one any good as the only relevant data is the delta from CarbConn.

Some questions from CarbConn's pre-dyno data;
-They show you were making 1.9psi before the Kleemann s/c. How can you make positive pressure on an NA car?

-You've stated CarbConn only used one fan (“Carb conn i think only have one big fan directing air flow into the radiator.”); was it a squirrel cage blower or just a big shop fan? As we know first hand from both our previous Mustang 2wd and Mustang AWD-500-SE dynos, inadequate fans can result in poor dyno numbers.

-What gear did CarbConn dyno in to produce these numbers? 3rd or 4th?


Yes, we charged you $368 for the MAF and no labor for install of course.
FYI, MAF’s are typically $390 from the dealer so we actually charged you less than retail.

jeremyw

Hi Ted,

With all due respect as I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years, how do you know who we are? Have you ever been to our facility? Have you ever seen the quality or meticulousness of our workmanship? Have you ever met us or our ex-master Mercedes dealer tech (who was the head of the first and oldest US Mercedes dealer's Motorsport dept)? Ever spoken to us via phone, email, ??
I'd kindly urge you to think about accusations you make before you make them.


I wouldn’t call it “tuning” as everyone knows it(ie there’s no ECU programming needed)—I’d call it “adaptation.” As we informed Peter of via phone and email before he came to pick up the E55, “the only calibration we’re not able to do [right now on the street] due to lack of long enough hills here is the [N1/L1 adaptation] 3rd gear, 50% throttle (~3000rpms) for 30seconds. This will cease the mild “bucking” when in traffic at low throttle (when I drove the car over 100miles I didn’t notice it, but as well I didn’t get stuck in traffic like Jon did).” It was Peter’s choice to come down, pick up the E55, and try to perform this in Seattle—if he didn’t feel comfortable doing this himself then we could have taken it to a loaded dyno for him to perform this. (FYI, we adapted jeff.bisonett’s Kleemann stg3 on the street). It wasn’t like we had no clue what was happening or why, or what was needed to correct it. We informed Peter of what was going on.


Many STi and EVO shops have in-house dynos as the ECU's are dynamic. As I'm sure you know, there are MULTIPLE program suites which let the "tuner shops" tune these vehicles on the fly/on the dyno (ECUtek, UTEC, XEDE, Cobb, Hydra, AEM, etc).

How many custom tuneable program suites do you know for Mercedes, or any of the other German vehicles? Very few, if any(good ones). Most all the [Mercedes] tuning is done by the big name tuners like Kleemann, RENNtech, Brabus, etc etc. And moreover, all of these companies' software tuners are NOT in the USA so there is some lag/down time between dynoing custom files. Therefore it's less practical/sensible/user-friendly for a German-based performance facility to have an in-house dyno as all of the custom tuning is in the hands of the big name tuners(who mostly reside outside the USA), and NOT in the hands of the individual "tuner shops" (like it is for the STi/EVO facilities).

Sure, it'd be handy to have a $60k dyno sitting around for when someone wants to baseline dyno, but believe us, that does NOT pay for the dyno. BTDT with the first Mustang AWD dyno from Seattle to San Francisco.

jeremyw

We know from first hand experience that the excess oil on a K&N filter element will ruin the stock MAF on any s/c'd or turbo vehicle. This is no secret.
Moreover, we've seen new MAF's from the dealer be faulty out of the box (Kleemann has too) so no guarantee the new MAF you tried is good.

The fact that you put in a new K&N in before your first post-dyno session with CarbConn could have resulted in the K&N taking out your MAF, resulting in low numbers.


We have not pointed the finger. We've simply asked relevant questions (as you've listed in your post above) in order to gain some understanding of the data you've provided. If the vehicle isn’t dynoed properly, you will not see accurate numbers.



We've never taken this stance. We've always been to quick to respond to your questions, responding within 24-36hrs (save for emails you send to us on the weekend, which we respond to on Mon). We've asked you 2 times (4/1 and 4/4) for answers to many of the questions below. You have never responded. I even sent you an email on 4/4 checking back to see if you had received the emails I had sent as we hadn’t heard from you (how does that show that we’re not here to support?). If you don't provide more information to things we need to know, how are we supposed to help you? If you don’t respond to us, how are we supposed to know if you’ve already solved the issue?

jeremyw

Yes, you have a 2.8” pulley which is what you are supposed to have---there is nothing wrong in this regard. Your setup is supposed to make 5-6psi so you are making the correct amount of boost.

jeremyw

Your car is supposed to make 5.5psi---there is nothing wrong in this regard.

Why are our questions ridiculous? You've provided us with data from CarbConn and we've simply asked more questions as to their dyno setup, fan setup, what gear the E55 was dynoed in, etc. Again, you still have not provided us with these final answers.

If the car isn't dynoed in a proper gear, there won't be enough load to produce proper boost. (You don’t seem to be sure what gear they dynoed in for the dyno sheets you sent over; “They test it in different gear, best run was with 3rd gear”)

If their fans are inadequate, the ECU will pull back timing and the car won't produce strong and accurate numbers. To us/Kleemann, it doesn’t sound like CarbConn has enough fans to cool the car; “Carb conn i think only have one big fan directing air flow into the radiator.”

Was ESP turned on or off? We’re getting conflicting info from you; “test with ESP on and off position at center console on/off switch.”

You had mentioned that you could smell exhaust gas where you were standing during the dyno sessions (“yes i can smell the exhaust gas especially at top end”). If incoming/outgoing airflow isn't sufficient the car is ingesting it's own exhaust fumes which won't produce accurate power numbers.

If they aren't letting the car cool properly between runs the car won't produce accurate numbers.

The AFR readings from CarbConn and FAME vary wildly (12.2:1 to 10.8:1); in order to rule out a change with the vehicle, we need to make certain that both their devices are reading accurately.

CarbConn said you were producing 1.9psi STOCK and 8.45psi with the Kleemann s/c so obviously something is not right there. You had even mentioned that CarbConn “say their Dynojet is 1~ psi higher, I think it more like 1.9 psi because on the baseline run it show 1.90 psi.” Well now if their Dynojet is accurate in every way, why would it read 1 or 1.9psi on an NA vehicle? That doesn’t make much sense does it?

Now do you understand why we've been asking you for more info for 2weeks now?

jeremyw

Actually Peter we have offered to help. From my 4/1 email to you; “There are other things we can look over too. And we’re here to help you with this.”

Again, we first need you to provide more info on the dyno data you have provided from CarbConn (the FAME dyno numbers are irrelevant). We've been waiting for this info for 2weeks. Until you do this, how can we know what’s taking place and accurately help pinpoint a possible fairly simple issue?

jeremyw

You still haven't responded with the information we need Peter when we've consistently and fully responded to your emails within 24-36hrs.



This is COMPLETELY false Peter. You posted this yesterday (Monday) before we had even responded to your email notifying us about the shredded belt. So, at the time of your posting, how could you have known we were willing or unwilling to pay for labor to correct the problem if you hadn’t even received our email response yet regarding the shredded belt?

We have never pointed a finger at Kleemann. We have the utmost respect for Cory and Kleemann---they've ALWAYS provided the quickest and friendliest support in the Mercedes community. There is no reason for us to point a finger at them and them us. Ourselves and Kleemann can work together to resolve any issues you have.

Peter, as I've mentioned a few times, we are more than willing to iron out or help you iron out any issues you are having. But as I've mentioned numerous times above, if you don't ever respond to us when we email you back and you don't ever provide information/answers to questions we ask, how are we supposed to know if you’ve already solved an issue and/or how are we properly supposed to help you????

Very best regards,
Jeremy Williams
Matrix Integrated
Portland, OR
(Installer of jeff.bisonett’s Kleemann stg3)

Peter_02AMG

Jeremy,
right now I just want to get my car running again and worry about the lost power later. I have a business trip to Kobe Japan next week and I just want to get my car running before I leave. If you willing to paid for the labor than I'm grateful that you taking the step to correct these unfortunate incident.

I will contact Lynnwood Merecedes and have them space out the idler Pulley bracket so the belt won't slip off again. I will contact you on the estimate they gave me.

thanks

jeremyw

Fully understood Peter.

Please get a quote from Lynnwood and email or fax it to us and we can go from there. It should take an hour or less to space the pulley or bracket, and replace the s/c belt.

Thanks!

Peter_02AMG

Jeremy,
You were able to tune Jeff car I don't know why I have all these problem on my car. The low speed "bucking" still exsit even after I try several time to do what you ask. The transmisson cut off still exist which you call "limp mode" I afriad to push the car hard on 1st knowing it will shut down my transmission and trip a CEL again. All these you said will adapt but so far still haven't gone away after over 1500 miles on it.

Last saturday my belt shredded off and rip off one of the fan blade left me in the middle of the hwy waiting an hr for a tow truck. I had to tow it to a shop while the car sit in there bay over the weekend wait to order a new fan blade and belt not to meantion the car rental while I'm without car. monday night when I try to go out the car would start. Looked inside the engine and found the belt had came lose, it slid off the idle pulley when I try to start the car.

I just got off the phone with Ian from Lynwood Mercrdes, he told me that it against there policy to redo someone esle work because they will be reliable for it. He can't gave me a quote until he talk to Kleemann. If no reputable Kleemann dealer will touch it than I have no choice but to paid a mom & pop shop to do it.

I'll let you know what they said.


Peter

jeremyw

Yeah, I'm not sure why Jeff's adapted fine and yours hasn't. We'd need to look at this further.

"The car is not going into limp mode. If it was, the car would not accept more than 30% throttle, and won't exceed 35 MPH. I need to know what the fault code is to determine what's going on." If you can get this from Lynnwood that'd be great.

I'm again sorry to hear what happened.
So if I understand you correctly, the s/c belt shredded, damaging the fan blade. Then a shop up there replaced the s/c belt and fan blade over the weekend and then on Monday the s/c belt they replaced came loose?

Please send me an email in regards to what Lynnwood says, thanks.

Tacjam

From what I'm reading it looks like Matrix Integrated is trying to help you out. I hope they take care of you Peter. They SHOULD cover all the expenses you incurred for being stranded. I hope you get the car...not only running correctly, but I also hope you get the power you paid for! Keep us informed, we only have a few choices for installers in the NW. Also, if you need help with the Stereo install...let me know.

Jim