E55 Twin Turbo
#27
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1999 E55 AMG, 2004 Big Turbo A4; 2005 C240 Wagon 4matic; 2001 ML430
Rear mount is a serious compromise; why not supercharge instead? You can get an entire engine and supercharger for a few thousand (used). It would probably even be easier to adapt a centrifugal supercharger to the W210 and drive it regularly, as opposed to the rear mount setups. You'll need a ton of custom piping, an oil cooler, pump, and you'll have figure out the correct oil restriction inlet size to keep from destroying the journal bearings or blowing out the seals into the turbine and compressor housings. Turbos don't always react well to being doused with water underneath the rear end, and there will be a lot of lag even under the best of circumstances. For all of their advantages, rear mount turbos have a ton of drawbacks as well.
Last edited by NAFT1; 03-04-2019 at 11:13 PM.
#28
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Yes, plenty of room for a centrifugal setup. Makes more sense than a rear turbo system and would be much easier to engineer. The centrifugal units can be expensive but would probably be easier to tune and make power where it is needed in the NA 55, up top.
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1999 E55 AMG, 2004 Big Turbo A4; 2005 C240 Wagon 4matic; 2001 ML430
I've always wondered why there weren't any Vortech or ATI kits marketed for these. they'd probably make decent power; I could easily see 100hp added from a decent tune and 6-7psi.
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1999 E55 AMG, 2004 Big Turbo A4; 2005 C240 Wagon 4matic; 2001 ML430
Hmmmmm, have three Mercedes to drive....been a few years since I developed a one-off FI setup....anyone interested in working on a Vortech centrifugal liquid cooled 7-8psi setup? Should only be a about $4.5K in parts (use standard 2.5x multiplier to estimate actual costs).
Edit: someone has already done it- M113 CLK500
Edit: someone has already done it- M113 CLK500
Last edited by NAFT1; 03-07-2019 at 11:29 AM.
#32
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With the help of some friends and relentless attitude with regards to doing the work myself, I can turbo this for under $3000 if I play my cards right. I’m just not super interested in a supercharger on this car. Like we discussed we want that top end boost, while often more desirable, I’m not sure I want the more linear power boost a supercharger gives. Plus I’ve heard dealing with the clutch and such is a pain
between my friends m113 turbo kit for $1200, and his ability to at least get me started with a tune, stavros rear mount e55 on driftworks he did for about $2000, and some help from other friends who really want to see this happen, this really may be cheaper than a supercharger. I also think it will be a little unique and more fun to drive
seems most of the guesswork is eliminated from turbo’ing m113 already and I assume that’s where half the costs goes when people say turbo’ing one of these cars gets really expensive. Ten years ago I would largely agree, now I’m really doing nothing new
between my friends m113 turbo kit for $1200, and his ability to at least get me started with a tune, stavros rear mount e55 on driftworks he did for about $2000, and some help from other friends who really want to see this happen, this really may be cheaper than a supercharger. I also think it will be a little unique and more fun to drive
seems most of the guesswork is eliminated from turbo’ing m113 already and I assume that’s where half the costs goes when people say turbo’ing one of these cars gets really expensive. Ten years ago I would largely agree, now I’m really doing nothing new
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#35
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Hmmmmm, have three Mercedes to drive....been a few years since I developed a one-off FI setup....anyone interested in working on a Vortech centrifugal liquid cooled 7-8psi setup? Should only be a about $4.5K in parts (use standard 2.5x multiplier to estimate actual costs).
Edit: someone has already done it- M113 CLK500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45zqM2-VyEE
Edit: someone has already done it- M113 CLK500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45zqM2-VyEE
#36
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Looks to not have an intercooler or blow-off vavle = poorly engineered and or done the cheapest way possible. A centrifugal supercharger still produces a bunch of heat. Compression = heat and it needs to be handled, even if it is only 5 - 7 psi, which is all that kit is probably producing. A BOV will allow the engine to work under normal vacuum condition. Without it, you are always heating the air and producing boost and drag on the engine. So, in reality, not so cool.
#37
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Surely it wouldn’t be incredibly difficult to route an air to air intercooler and blow off valve I assume? I think they just wanted to see if the setup would even work
i just like seeing innovative and new ideas. Blownv8 you should join some of the w220/Cl55 groups on Facebook, there’s a guy out of New York doing all kinds of crazy swaps and FI setups almost weekly
i just like seeing innovative and new ideas. Blownv8 you should join some of the w220/Cl55 groups on Facebook, there’s a guy out of New York doing all kinds of crazy swaps and FI setups almost weekly
#38
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To mount an air to air, the supercharger would need to be mounted in reverse of what it is currently or have the blower outlet face down and somehow go under the supercharger with the charge air. Air to water looks like it would be easier on that application due to space and plumbing. BOV would be easy on that setup. Not sure why they don't have one. Really makes no sense to heat up the air and also have compressor surge issues. When the throttle body closes, there is no place for the air to go but backwards so the shockwave will eventually hurt or destroy the compressor.
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#39
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1999 E55 AMG, 2004 Big Turbo A4; 2005 C240 Wagon 4matic; 2001 ML430
To mount an air to air, the supercharger would need to be mounted in reverse of what it is currently or have the blower outlet face down and somehow go under the supercharger with the charge air. Air to water looks like it would be easier on that application due to space and plumbing. BOV would be easy on that setup. Not sure why they don't have one. Really makes no sense to heat up the air and also have compressor surge issues. When the throttle body closes, there is no place for the air to go but backwards so the shockwave will eventually hurt or destroy the compressor.
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Last edited by NAFT1; 03-10-2019 at 12:41 AM.
#40
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How can a diverter valve not require more plumbing? The nature of a diverter valve requires plumbing to divert the charged air back into the system. A BOV mounted upstream of a MAF should not have any affect on the measured air. Now, if you were sucking the charge air through the MAF and before the supercharger, yes, a diverter valve would make sense. Not the case in this application.
#41
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How can a diverter valve not require more plumbing? The nature of a diverter valve requires plumbing to divert the charged air back into the system. A BOV mounted upstream of a MAF should not have any affect on the measured air. Now, if you were sucking the charge air through the MAF and before the supercharger, yes, a diverter valve would make sense. Not the case in this application.
#42
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Yeah you did say will require additional plumbing. Sorry, misread. Looks like they kept the MAF in the stock location. It seems to be a total budget build and that's fine but why go to that trouble since some simple additions could yield some serious power.
MAP is the way to go but not sure that's possible with the stock ECU or how difficult it would be to change out with a M113k ECU. Probably need a rewire and it would be a pain. How difficult would a speed density setup be on the car? Could you use the stock ECU or would you have to run a piggyback or standalone. Going standalone is such a PITA and makes the car difficult to have work done on it unless you are doing the work yourself.
MAP is the way to go but not sure that's possible with the stock ECU or how difficult it would be to change out with a M113k ECU. Probably need a rewire and it would be a pain. How difficult would a speed density setup be on the car? Could you use the stock ECU or would you have to run a piggyback or standalone. Going standalone is such a PITA and makes the car difficult to have work done on it unless you are doing the work yourself.
#43
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1999 E55 AMG, 2004 Big Turbo A4; 2005 C240 Wagon 4matic; 2001 ML430
Yeah you did say will require additional plumbing. Sorry, misread. Looks like they kept the MAF in the stock location. It seems to be a total budget build and that's fine but why go to that trouble since some simple additions could yield some serious power.
MAP is the way to go but not sure that's possible with the stock ECU or how difficult it would be to change out with a M113k ECU. Probably need a rewire and it would be a pain. How difficult would a speed density setup be on the car? Could you use the stock ECU or would you have to run a piggyback or standalone. Going standalone is such a PITA and makes the car difficult to have work done on it unless you are doing the work yourself.
MAP is the way to go but not sure that's possible with the stock ECU or how difficult it would be to change out with a M113k ECU. Probably need a rewire and it would be a pain. How difficult would a speed density setup be on the car? Could you use the stock ECU or would you have to run a piggyback or standalone. Going standalone is such a PITA and makes the car difficult to have work done on it unless you are doing the work yourself.
Last edited by NAFT1; 03-13-2019 at 01:33 PM.