weistec supercharger on a 99 e55
10-01-2014, 03:31 PM
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1999 mercedes benz e55
weistec supercharger on a 99 e55
OkaY well I've been researching about how to make 99 w210 run low 11s and I thought maybe I can put a w211 weistec supercharger on the w210 e55 I believe it could be done but I want a second opinion about what I need I don't mind dumping my money in this car I'm not going to ever sell it so it's priceless to me and I don't think I have a mechanic In my area that is able to do this but I have a friend that builds cars like this all the time so he'll help me on the build and I just wanna know what do I have to do to make sure this runs right and will the engine handle the weistec supercharger and will the suspension Be able to handle the power it's going to have
10-02-2014, 08:38 AM
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C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
Zx
Blkbenz has this blower on his 01 clk55.
The mech inst wasn't the big challenge. It is the tune. Perhaps he can help. Or weistec has this sorted for the na crowd?
The mech inst wasn't the big challenge. It is the tune. Perhaps he can help. Or weistec has this sorted for the na crowd?
10-05-2014, 09:16 PM
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'99 and '05 E55 AMG
My bet is you will be back in less than one year telling us you blew up the engine in your car.
Enthusiasm is great. Research is better. Math is hard and engineering is necessary.
Big horsepower is easy. Big horsepower in a car that is drivable is a horse of a different color....
Slow down. Contact the major tuners. Seek advice. Don't ask me how I learned this knowledge....
And, BTW, ask yourself why you need to run low 11's. Seriously. Why not enjoy your car for what it is?
FWIW and YMMV. Cheers!
Enthusiasm is great. Research is better. Math is hard and engineering is necessary.
Big horsepower is easy. Big horsepower in a car that is drivable is a horse of a different color....
Slow down. Contact the major tuners. Seek advice. Don't ask me how I learned this knowledge....
And, BTW, ask yourself why you need to run low 11's. Seriously. Why not enjoy your car for what it is?
FWIW and YMMV. Cheers!
10-06-2014, 01:04 AM
#5
Senior Member
My bet is you will be back in less than one year telling us you blew up the engine in your car.
Enthusiasm is great. Research is better. Math is hard and engineering is necessary.
Big horsepower is easy. Big horsepower in a car that is drivable is a horse of a different color....
Slow down. Contact the major tuners. Seek advice. Don't ask me how I learned this knowledge....
And, BTW, ask yourself why you need to run low 11's. Seriously. Why not enjoy your car for what it is?
FWIW and YMMV. Cheers!
Enthusiasm is great. Research is better. Math is hard and engineering is necessary.
Big horsepower is easy. Big horsepower in a car that is drivable is a horse of a different color....
Slow down. Contact the major tuners. Seek advice. Don't ask me how I learned this knowledge....
And, BTW, ask yourself why you need to run low 11's. Seriously. Why not enjoy your car for what it is?
FWIW and YMMV. Cheers!
10-06-2014, 06:28 PM
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C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
Pos exp
I can comment on my exp:
Kleemann blower
Smaller pulley
Ported heads
Cams
Exhaust
30kmiles daily driver. Just completed a 2000 mile road last week no issues.
Will hit track in 2 wks hoping for high 11's.
Your results may vary.
It's all about the tuner
Kleemann blower
Smaller pulley
Ported heads
Cams
Exhaust
30kmiles daily driver. Just completed a 2000 mile road last week no issues.
Will hit track in 2 wks hoping for high 11's.
Your results may vary.
It's all about the tuner
10-06-2014, 08:55 PM
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'99 and '05 E55 AMG
Fair comment. I came out of the Miata world, 23 years, 1 supercharger, 3 turbochargers, RRFPRs, aftermarket ECUs, multiple installs and tunings with other owners, etc. Before anyone snickers at a Miata, I took one of mine (my first and I still own it) from 90 RWHP to 300 RWHP. And that's with a car that weighs 2390 pounds with me in it. I learned a lot from my mistakes and what it cost me in time, labor, money, and frustration. At one point, if someone had offered to reimburse me just 50% of the parts, I would have sold them the whole damn thing. And this was only four months before I got it on the road again.
The car was finicky as I was pushing the tuning to the limit so it required constant oversight and monitoring. It was un-Godly quick but I wasn't having as much fun with it as I thought. I finally dialed down the boost in the Miata to ~230 RWHP so it's similar to my '05 E55 AMG in acceleration (but still more difficult to deal with). Miatas are *cheap* compared to Mercedes (e.g. <$7K for a built Miata engine versus >$25K for a built E55 engine.) I recommend learning on Miatas before stepping up to Mercedes. Understand *I am no expert on Mercedes! I am still learning as fast as I can!* Mercedes are complicated beasts and I'm still reading through any and all training material such as that from the Mercedestechstore. The difference between the cars is sort of like the difference between a USAF F15 (Mercedes) and a Soviet MIG-23 (Miata).
So...having said that. Here is what amg_guy23 is facing:
-First, purchase and read Corky Bell's book "Supercharged!"
-How much horsepower to reach low 11's in the 1/4 mile?
-How many pounds of gasoline per hour per horsepower to reach your horsepower goal?
-What size in pounds/hr fuel injectors does one need to reach those horsepower goals?
-What size fuel pump does one need? Does the stock pump provide enough? Are the fuel lines large enough to flow the extra fuel?
-If you find fuel injectors, do you need to replace the connectors?
That was the easy part...now:
-How do you handle timing under boost? My '05 runs approximately 177 kPa, stock '99 runs at atmospheric, i.e. 101 kPa. Timing must be retarded under boost. How are you going to do so? Reflash the ECU? But does the stock '99 ECU account for pressures above 101 kPA?
-How do you handle fueling under boost? Larger injectors to handle increased mass airflow means the injector on-time must be decreased whenever one is not in boost. The stock ECU doesn't account for this.
-Even dealing with the above, how do you tie in a manifold air pressure sensor and feed the signal into the ECU? Can the stock ECU be re-programmed to account for this? If it is only an 8-level table, the tuning granularity just got significantly worse.
-Can one adapt a W211 ECU into a W210? Possible but I don't want to try it. I have things I'd like to do over the next couple of years.
Aha! We could use an aftermarket ECU and run it in parallel with the stock ECU and let the added ECU only handle injectors and timing! But...the MB ECU is tightly integrated with the car's various systems. Will the stock ECU puke its guts up? Hmmmm. I don't know.
If you add a water/air intercooler (IMO, one of the worst but the only option available here) for the supercharger, where do you mount the pump, mount the tank, run the water lines, and tap into the power supply? Hope one is good at reading schematics and picking the correct circuit.
Okay, all of the above is good-to-go. Now, can the W210 722.6 transmission handle the added torque? Or do you need to install an aftermarket kit for another $4K or so? I don't have the answer to this.
How about the differential? Can it handle the added torque or does one need to install a W211 differential? If one does, does one need to use the W211 axle and driveshaft? Or does one need custom axles and driveshaft?
Will the stock cooling system handle the added BTUs from the cooling system when one is under boost? Will the stock fans pull enough air? If you add high-flow fans will the stock wiring harness and relays handle the increased amperage or will the insulation melt and short circuit your harness in a melted mass?
All of the above is just the tip of the iceberg. Everything is interrelated and one must beware of the "law of unintended consequences". Example, to change the oil pressure sensor on a stock Miata takes 15 minutes and one wrench. To change the oil pressure sensor on my turbo Miata took 2 hours to include removing the starter so I could disconnect an oil line so I could rotate the sensor out. And then I had to do it all over again when I discovered my aftermarket oil pressure sensor was not compatible with the gauges I had in the car. Arrgghhh! *This* is what amg_guy23 is facing if he does not research, research, research.
As an engineer and auto enthusiast, the Weistech equipment is awesome and they earn every dollar they charge. But adapting it to a W210, although do-able, may be a stretch unless one is mechanically, electrically, and technically expert.
FWIW. Now I'm going to go and have a beer and continue reading up on my W211 and W210....
The car was finicky as I was pushing the tuning to the limit so it required constant oversight and monitoring. It was un-Godly quick but I wasn't having as much fun with it as I thought. I finally dialed down the boost in the Miata to ~230 RWHP so it's similar to my '05 E55 AMG in acceleration (but still more difficult to deal with). Miatas are *cheap* compared to Mercedes (e.g. <$7K for a built Miata engine versus >$25K for a built E55 engine.) I recommend learning on Miatas before stepping up to Mercedes. Understand *I am no expert on Mercedes! I am still learning as fast as I can!* Mercedes are complicated beasts and I'm still reading through any and all training material such as that from the Mercedestechstore. The difference between the cars is sort of like the difference between a USAF F15 (Mercedes) and a Soviet MIG-23 (Miata).
So...having said that. Here is what amg_guy23 is facing:
-First, purchase and read Corky Bell's book "Supercharged!"
-How much horsepower to reach low 11's in the 1/4 mile?
-How many pounds of gasoline per hour per horsepower to reach your horsepower goal?
-What size in pounds/hr fuel injectors does one need to reach those horsepower goals?
-What size fuel pump does one need? Does the stock pump provide enough? Are the fuel lines large enough to flow the extra fuel?
-If you find fuel injectors, do you need to replace the connectors?
That was the easy part...now:
-How do you handle timing under boost? My '05 runs approximately 177 kPa, stock '99 runs at atmospheric, i.e. 101 kPa. Timing must be retarded under boost. How are you going to do so? Reflash the ECU? But does the stock '99 ECU account for pressures above 101 kPA?
-How do you handle fueling under boost? Larger injectors to handle increased mass airflow means the injector on-time must be decreased whenever one is not in boost. The stock ECU doesn't account for this.
-Even dealing with the above, how do you tie in a manifold air pressure sensor and feed the signal into the ECU? Can the stock ECU be re-programmed to account for this? If it is only an 8-level table, the tuning granularity just got significantly worse.
-Can one adapt a W211 ECU into a W210? Possible but I don't want to try it. I have things I'd like to do over the next couple of years.
Aha! We could use an aftermarket ECU and run it in parallel with the stock ECU and let the added ECU only handle injectors and timing! But...the MB ECU is tightly integrated with the car's various systems. Will the stock ECU puke its guts up? Hmmmm. I don't know.
If you add a water/air intercooler (IMO, one of the worst but the only option available here) for the supercharger, where do you mount the pump, mount the tank, run the water lines, and tap into the power supply? Hope one is good at reading schematics and picking the correct circuit.
Okay, all of the above is good-to-go. Now, can the W210 722.6 transmission handle the added torque? Or do you need to install an aftermarket kit for another $4K or so? I don't have the answer to this.
How about the differential? Can it handle the added torque or does one need to install a W211 differential? If one does, does one need to use the W211 axle and driveshaft? Or does one need custom axles and driveshaft?
Will the stock cooling system handle the added BTUs from the cooling system when one is under boost? Will the stock fans pull enough air? If you add high-flow fans will the stock wiring harness and relays handle the increased amperage or will the insulation melt and short circuit your harness in a melted mass?
All of the above is just the tip of the iceberg. Everything is interrelated and one must beware of the "law of unintended consequences". Example, to change the oil pressure sensor on a stock Miata takes 15 minutes and one wrench. To change the oil pressure sensor on my turbo Miata took 2 hours to include removing the starter so I could disconnect an oil line so I could rotate the sensor out. And then I had to do it all over again when I discovered my aftermarket oil pressure sensor was not compatible with the gauges I had in the car. Arrgghhh! *This* is what amg_guy23 is facing if he does not research, research, research.
As an engineer and auto enthusiast, the Weistech equipment is awesome and they earn every dollar they charge. But adapting it to a W210, although do-able, may be a stretch unless one is mechanically, electrically, and technically expert.
FWIW. Now I'm going to go and have a beer and continue reading up on my W211 and W210....
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10-07-2014, 09:59 AM
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1999 mercedes benz e55
Well I understand the problems that I am facing and I have all that in consideration I understand that it's better and cheaper with a w211 but I am trying to have the fastest w210 just to do it and I love the car so why not I called weistec and I am going to go down there to have a word with them they might have all the answers I'm looking for and hopefully i can make it to a daily driver and it handles all the horsepower everyday with out problems that is my goal so when I'm putting it together I'll post up pictures and videos if I can and have a 300 mile road trip with it wish me luck
10-07-2014, 11:09 AM
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'99 and '05 E55 AMG
amg_guy23, I wish the best in this and hope your task has few, if any, bumps in the way. If you continue down this road, please provide regular updates for the rest of us.
10-08-2014, 02:46 AM
#10
Senior Member
+1 exactly what I wanted to say. I'm looking forward to seeing your results, and wish you all the best!
10-09-2014, 03:29 PM
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Why not try Kleemann SC as betrezra setup. It's been proved reliable and easier to install. You can even add the Kleemann Header... I assume with all the part the car should has around 460whp. W210 is a bit lighter than W211 so might able to run high 11. The only problem is the cost of material and labor will cost more than the car... Good luck with you project.
