How much power can be made NA?
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Merc
Just blindly throwing money at something hoping for the best isn't the way to go about it. Your comment about trying e85 shows your lack of understanding. And itb's isn't some sort of magical solution. As said above, it's about the overall package and how it works together.
If you don't know how to make power then you're wasting your time. Stick to alternatives with proven methods and aftermarket support, as this engine has none of that.
If you don't know how to make power then you're wasting your time. Stick to alternatives with proven methods and aftermarket support, as this engine has none of that.
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01 E55
Just blindly throwing money at something hoping for the best isn't the way to go about it. Your comment about trying e85 shows your lack of understanding. And itb's isn't some sort of magical solution. As said above, it's about the overall package and how it works together.
If you don't know how to make power then you're wasting your time. Stick to alternatives with proven methods and aftermarket support, as this engine has none of that.
If you don't know how to make power then you're wasting your time. Stick to alternatives with proven methods and aftermarket support, as this engine has none of that.
Where do I mention "blindly throwing money at something" either? Again.. your ignorance is showing.
Remember, ignorance is a choice. lol
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Joined: Oct 2017
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w210 E55
Just blindly throwing money at something hoping for the best isn't the way to go about it. Your comment about trying e85 shows your lack of understanding. And itb's isn't some sort of magical solution. As said above, it's about the overall package and how it works together.
If you don't know how to make power then you're wasting your time. Stick to alternatives with proven methods and aftermarket support, as this engine has none of that.
If you don't know how to make power then you're wasting your time. Stick to alternatives with proven methods and aftermarket support, as this engine has none of that.
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Joined: May 2019
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01 E55
My lack of understanding about what? The fact that I have the highest horsepower NA e55? or the fact that we hold the world record for fastest E55. Last time I checked e70 which is what usually comes out of the pump, makes power. I just need to try a tune with some added timing. Yes its isnt magic, i am pretty sure my overall package is the best "packaged" 210 on the forums. What am I blindly throwing money at? I would like to have the fastest and highest powered NA 113 ever. My roommate works at the most badass LS engine supplier in the country, I know how to make power. What cars have you built that hold records?
Here's my car, back in 2012. Remember.. I race 1/8
THIS is why I post what I do... you can get mad all you want, but frankly you guys don't know **** about making real power, you're just tuner kids playing with toys.
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w210 E55
My 2002 with ME2.8 running my custom intake (20whp), 113k injectors, e70 just made around 355whp, didnt seem to have the same affect as my older car. But I know I am on stock timing, just busy with work, and since my tunes are free, i am down on the list of getting one. Also have a brand new intake manifold, no clutch fan. I think with a proper E85 tune it should make 370whp. I will be ordering Cat cams soon also, was looking into throttle bodies, but it seems 74mm flows plenty of air. Also may work with the rennsport guys on the ITB setup and us an ME from a 113k to tune run them. I just want to see how far I can get. I know there isnt any support for these. But i just enjoy trying. You can see most on the 2002 Build thread
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w210 E55
I've shut my car off at the 1/8th and coasted to the 1/4 quicker than your "world's fastest E55" has even gone. The reason is NO ONE REALLY CARES about the E55 in that sense. The mercedes nerds do, and that's fine. racers don't, if they did, they'd crush your soul.. Again, it's not all that hard, and i'm not even quick in the circles I keep. even back then. I was merely average.
Here's my car, back in 2012. Remember.. I race 1/8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjqgooVqIE <-- note my MPH to the 1/8 about what your "world's fastest" runs in the 1/4. Hell, cars in the same class today are running in the in 160's TO THE 1/8 and this is with small blocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXYZR5EQTk
THIS is why I post what I do... you can get mad all you want, but frankly you guys don't know **** about making real power, you're just tuner kids playing with toys.
Here's my car, back in 2012. Remember.. I race 1/8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjqgooVqIE <-- note my MPH to the 1/8 about what your "world's fastest" runs in the 1/4. Hell, cars in the same class today are running in the in 160's TO THE 1/8 and this is with small blocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXYZR5EQTk
THIS is why I post what I do... you can get mad all you want, but frankly you guys don't know **** about making real power, you're just tuner kids playing with toys.
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w210 E55
I've shut my car off at the 1/8th and coasted to the 1/4 quicker than your "world's fastest E55" has even gone. The reason is NO ONE REALLY CARES about the E55 in that sense. The mercedes nerds do, and that's fine. racers don't, if they did, they'd crush your soul.. Again, it's not all that hard, and i'm not even quick in the circles I keep. even back then. I was merely average.
Here's my car, back in 2012. Remember.. I race 1/8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjqgooVqIE <-- note my MPH to the 1/8 about what your "world's fastest" runs in the 1/4. Hell, cars in the same class today are running in the in 160's TO THE 1/8 and this is with small blocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXYZR5EQTk
THIS is why I post what I do... you can get mad all you want, but frankly you guys don't know **** about making real power, you're just tuner kids playing with toys.
Here's my car, back in 2012. Remember.. I race 1/8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjqgooVqIE <-- note my MPH to the 1/8 about what your "world's fastest" runs in the 1/4. Hell, cars in the same class today are running in the in 160's TO THE 1/8 and this is with small blocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXYZR5EQTk
THIS is why I post what I do... you can get mad all you want, but frankly you guys don't know **** about making real power, you're just tuner kids playing with toys.
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Joined: Jun 2018
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Merc
Not yet. My 2000 with the flex fuel kit we help develop made 20whp and 20tq on e60. got to around 345whp with headers, tune and e60.
My 2002 with ME2.8 running my custom intake (20whp), 113k injectors, e70 just made around 355whp, didnt seem to have the same affect as my older car. But I know I am on stock timing, just busy with work, and since my tunes are free, i am down on the list of getting one. Also have a brand new intake manifold, no clutch fan. I think with a proper E85 tune it should make 370whp. I will be ordering Cat cams soon also, was looking into throttle bodies, but it seems 74mm flows plenty of air. Also may work with the rennsport guys on the ITB setup and us an ME from a 113k to tune run them. I just want to see how far I can get. I know there isnt any support for these. But i just enjoy trying. You can see most on the 2002 Build thread
My 2002 with ME2.8 running my custom intake (20whp), 113k injectors, e70 just made around 355whp, didnt seem to have the same affect as my older car. But I know I am on stock timing, just busy with work, and since my tunes are free, i am down on the list of getting one. Also have a brand new intake manifold, no clutch fan. I think with a proper E85 tune it should make 370whp. I will be ordering Cat cams soon also, was looking into throttle bodies, but it seems 74mm flows plenty of air. Also may work with the rennsport guys on the ITB setup and us an ME from a 113k to tune run them. I just want to see how far I can get. I know there isnt any support for these. But i just enjoy trying. You can see most on the 2002 Build thread
Why are you bothering with e85 etc? Are you getting det? What are you hoping to achieve with itb's? Why not develop your own itb setup? Seems like you're going **** about face when it comes to making power. The goal isn't to splash as much money as possible just for power, the idea is max power for minimal outlay. Giving someone like rennsport thousands for what I can cobble together for a few hundred defeats the point. By the time you've spent thousands on all this crap, is it even worth it anymore?
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01 E55
I wasnt mad, I figured you had a foxbody of some sort. We like mercedes, everyone knows the formula for making American cars go fast. Cool you made a car fast with 640 cubic inches, who cant? Try making that 5.0 run 9.60s on the stock 160,000 mile motor, and 3900lbs. You built a full out drag car, our car is still by far a street car.
I've given up on the mustangs.. too common. Next car getting done is a 65 chevelle. Again, you're ignorance is showing. If ANYONE I know got serious about one of those cars.. it'd be over. it's not even a guess.
Again, listening to what you're trying to brag about is comical... I'm telling I was SLOW in my circles, well.. maybe average at best. And what i've done is LIGHT YEARS a head of what you guys have been able to come up with as the "fastest on the planet"
The question is WHY.. Why doesn't someone get the formula right on the euro trash cars? I mean, the platform is there, it seems like it could hold some decent power, if someone actually wanted to, but no one takes the time. The big question here is do you want a race car or a street car. if you want a race car, build one. If you want a street car, build that... but to claim that some bolt on car is the "fastest in the world" is comical.
Build what you like.. but to think you, or eurocharged has the market "cornered" on performance is laughable... it's because no one cares all that much, the market space isn't there for someone to venture in like there is for the LS, or the SBC/SBF etc..
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w210 E55
I run small blocks baby!
I've given up on the mustangs.. too common. Next car getting done is a 65 chevelle. Again, you're ignorance is showing. If ANYONE I know got serious about one of those cars.. it'd be over. it's not even a guess.
Again, listening to what you're trying to brag about is comical... I'm telling I was SLOW in my circles, well.. maybe average at best. And what i've done is LIGHT YEARS a head of what you guys have been able to come up with as the "fastest on the planet"
The question is WHY.. Why doesn't someone get the formula right on the euro trash cars? I mean, the platform is there, it seems like it could hold some decent power, if someone actually wanted to, but no one takes the time. The big question here is do you want a race car or a street car. if you want a race car, build one. If you want a street car, build that... but to claim that some bolt on car is the "fastest in the world" is comical.
Build what you like.. but to think you, or eurocharged has the market "cornered" on performance is laughable... it's because no one cares all that much, the market space isn't there for someone to venture in like there is for the LS, or the SBC/SBF etc..
I've given up on the mustangs.. too common. Next car getting done is a 65 chevelle. Again, you're ignorance is showing. If ANYONE I know got serious about one of those cars.. it'd be over. it's not even a guess.
Again, listening to what you're trying to brag about is comical... I'm telling I was SLOW in my circles, well.. maybe average at best. And what i've done is LIGHT YEARS a head of what you guys have been able to come up with as the "fastest on the planet"
The question is WHY.. Why doesn't someone get the formula right on the euro trash cars? I mean, the platform is there, it seems like it could hold some decent power, if someone actually wanted to, but no one takes the time. The big question here is do you want a race car or a street car. if you want a race car, build one. If you want a street car, build that... but to claim that some bolt on car is the "fastest in the world" is comical.
Build what you like.. but to think you, or eurocharged has the market "cornered" on performance is laughable... it's because no one cares all that much, the market space isn't there for someone to venture in like there is for the LS, or the SBC/SBF etc..
Cool sorry i know you run small blocks it was a joke, pops. Your circle should get serious, build a mercedes motor to hold 1000 to 2000hp then build a tube chassis and a fiberglass body, the car weighs 2200lbs. congrats Oh wait then it wouldnt be a mercedes anymore.
Yes I get that there are cars with 100,000s on dollars in them running 6s and 7s. We have a fun shop car at the location I work at. The market is much smaller, I get that also. We do this for fun and in our spare time built a car that can run mid 9s in street trim with a stock motor and blower. We are taking the time, we will have a car in the 8s with another stock 113k once we finish our clk build. Also you seem like some grumpy 65 year old redneck, why are you on this Euro 'trash" forum anyway?
Thread Starter
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Merc
An M113 wouldn't be my first choice for an engine to drop into a car. The only reason I'm bothering is because I essentially got the engine for free. Bang for buck is what it's all about.
Last edited by Hooblah; Nov 3, 2020 at 03:50 PM.
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01 E55
Exactly. The market isn't there. I'd say the biggest market for tuning is the US. The majority of Europeans don't go any further than bolt on, and most of the time a remap is good enough. With financed cars being so affordable these days, it's quite easy to buy something new and quick. You don't have to muck about.
An M113 wouldn't be my first choice for an engine to drop into a car. The only reason I'm bothering is because I essentially got the engine for free. Bang for buck is what it's all about.
An M113 wouldn't be my first choice for an engine to drop into a car. The only reason I'm bothering is because I essentially got the engine for free. Bang for buck is what it's all about.
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Merc
These cars are AWESOME for bang for buck!! There's zero doubt about it! To YOUR point, and to get to the power you're wanting, it all depends on how far you're comfortable in going. What you're hope to do is completely within the realm of the possible, but in all likelihood there will need to be compromises as far as where the motor makes that power, and how that impacts the motor's driveability.
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01 E55
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
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w210 E55
This brings me back to my OG post I think.. Where I ended up with my street car motor. I think it's on the radical side for the street kind of on the extreme end, but should be manageable at crusing rpms. There's no more pain in the *** than having an engine that's still loping as you're trying to cruise up the road at freeway rpm. Been there done that..
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
They company makes a few different cam specs for a m113. Lots of other company’s don’t have the tools to make them, since they are hollow in the middle. Also shows all the specs of the different cams
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w210 E55
This brings me back to my OG post I think.. Where I ended up with my street car motor. I think it's on the radical side for the street kind of on the extreme end, but should be manageable at crusing rpms. There's no more pain in the *** than having an engine that's still loping as you're trying to cruise up the road at freeway rpm. Been there done that..
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
they are the U.S. distributor.
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Merc
This brings me back to my OG post I think.. Where I ended up with my street car motor. I think it's on the radical side for the street kind of on the extreme end, but should be manageable at crusing rpms. There's no more pain in the *** than having an engine that's still loping as you're trying to cruise up the road at freeway rpm. Been there done that..
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
My motor is a bit bigger at 406", but the principals are the same, you just have to ease up on the duration at .050 a bit. (If you're getting cams done for the motor) I would think at that engine size, if you kept the duration in the 230's at .050 it should be ok, and also have the lobe center kind of wide to take some "chop" out of it at idle. I would think that would be something that's still tunable for street driving, and may not have to deal with bigger injectors and such, maybe just up the fuel pressure a bit.
It would be great if I can avoid any lope altogether and have top end power. If there has to be a compromise then I don't mind a very slight lope at idle, as I would still like some overlap to aid with scavenging, but it has to be civilised.
Alas, I am still learning about cam specs. I have no experience of changing cams, and there is noone with experience of m113's and cams. So I can't say what would work and what wouldn't. The only thing I've been able to do is trawl some US forums and YouTube vids for cam specs and base my conclusions off of those.
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w210 E55
Pretty much. There doesn't seem to be a compromise in what catcams lists, so I'll have to get a custom grind. It's either 'not enough' or 'too much'.
It would be great if I can avoid any lope altogether and have top end power. If there has to be a compromise then I don't mind a very slight lope at idle, as I would still like some overlap to aid with scavenging, but it has to be civilised.
Alas, I am still learning about cam specs. I have no experience of changing cams, and there is noone with experience of m113's and cams. So I can't say what would work and what wouldn't. The only thing I've been able to do is trawl some US forums and YouTube vids for cam specs and base my conclusions off of those.
It would be great if I can avoid any lope altogether and have top end power. If there has to be a compromise then I don't mind a very slight lope at idle, as I would still like some overlap to aid with scavenging, but it has to be civilised.
Alas, I am still learning about cam specs. I have no experience of changing cams, and there is noone with experience of m113's and cams. So I can't say what would work and what wouldn't. The only thing I've been able to do is trawl some US forums and YouTube vids for cam specs and base my conclusions off of those.
The 4003613 is what the recommend. There has been at least 5 different companies over the years who made cams for m113. I would not go with VRP or Race Iq, cams.
The 4003613 cams, need new springs also, and make power from 2500 to 7000, with a slight lope.
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Merc
I have been advised by a catcams retailer that I'm better off going for the next one up. The one you recommend has barely any overlap and from what I've been told, there's barely any flow at 1mm lift.
The next one up is compromised however, so a middle ground would need to be found.
The next one up is compromised however, so a middle ground would need to be found.
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w210 E55
I have been advised by a catcams retailer that I'm better off going for the next one up. The one you recommend has barely any overlap and from what I've been told, there's barely any flow at 1mm lift.
The next one up is compromised however, so a middle ground would need to be found.
The next one up is compromised however, so a middle ground would need to be found.
I would like this info, what company told you this?
thanks
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01 E55
http://www.catcams.com/welcome.aspx
They company makes a few different cam specs for a m113. Lots of other company’s don’t have the tools to make them, since they are hollow in the middle. Also shows all the specs of the different cams
They company makes a few different cam specs for a m113. Lots of other company’s don’t have the tools to make them, since they are hollow in the middle. Also shows all the specs of the different cams
what do you mean no compromise? You can email them, tell them what you are looking for and they will recommend a cam. You have to under stand, you can get crazy with lift in these cars, with the valve and piston clearances.
The 4003613 is what the recommend. There has been at least 5 different companies over the years who made cams for m113. I would not go with VRP or Race Iq, cams.
The 4003613 cams, need new springs also, and make power from 2500 to 7000, with a slight lope.
The 4003613 is what the recommend. There has been at least 5 different companies over the years who made cams for m113. I would not go with VRP or Race Iq, cams.
The 4003613 cams, need new springs also, and make power from 2500 to 7000, with a slight lope.
I can't speak to the springs, and whatnot, but it'd e a good idea with any cam you put in something.
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Merc
A cam expert.
Didn't you profess to be some sort of expert record holder? I'm sure you don't need advice on cam selection from anyone.
Are we looking at the same page? This is a mild cam by any standards. They class it as a sport cam, but list further options that are a lot more 'radical'.
A cam expert.
Didn't you profess to be some sort of expert record holder? I'm sure you don't need advice on cam selection from anyone.
Are we looking at the same page? This is a mild cam by any standards. They class it as a sport cam, but list further options that are a lot more 'radical'.
Last edited by Hooblah; Nov 3, 2020 at 06:44 PM.
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01 E55
Pretty much. There doesn't seem to be a compromise in what catcams lists, so I'll have to get a custom grind. It's either 'not enough' or 'too much'.
It would be great if I can avoid any lope altogether and have top end power. If there has to be a compromise then I don't mind a very slight lope at idle, as I would still like some overlap to aid with scavenging, but it has to be civilised.
Alas, I am still learning about cam specs. I have no experience of changing cams, and there is noone with experience of m113's and cams. So I can't say what would work and what wouldn't. The only thing I've been able to do is trawl some US forums and YouTube vids for cam specs and base my conclusions off of those.
It would be great if I can avoid any lope altogether and have top end power. If there has to be a compromise then I don't mind a very slight lope at idle, as I would still like some overlap to aid with scavenging, but it has to be civilised.
Alas, I am still learning about cam specs. I have no experience of changing cams, and there is noone with experience of m113's and cams. So I can't say what would work and what wouldn't. The only thing I've been able to do is trawl some US forums and YouTube vids for cam specs and base my conclusions off of those.
You gotta bear with me here.. I haven't thought about street type cams in 20 years+. lol And back then I would think it'd be "radical". lol
This is where that decision point comes in, and whether you're wanting to compromise.. idle quality for power/performance.
