hllatif

... Once this Chris Bangel is fired that is. I tell you, this guy has been littering the streets with his so called "revolutionary designs".

Rock

That is one reason that I am a new member.



MB............Beautiful. New BMW............................Uggggggggggg!!!!!!!

VelocitE55

Nice to hear it from some BMW enthusiasts. You know the designs are bad when BMW people dont like them. Bangle is hopeless.

amg55

Bangle was removed from the design side of the company about a year ago.
Regardless, it'll take awhile for BMW to right itself. They've done a lot of damage to customer loyalty.
The 7 series has already been redesigned (headlights and such) for later this year.

krispykrme

really? BMW sales is increasing as a group. If Bangle is really a bad influence, everything would tank. I agree some if its design are horrible to the eyes (like the 7 series and 6 series coupe). But some of them does work well.

Some of the bangle design does work well. I liked E60 exterior style. The E90 looks not bad either. Mercedes looks classy and elegant. But BMW is more atheletic and energetic. Each company has its traits.

The only company that I really is on the wrong track is lexus on the exterior design. Especially the new GS.

The new BMW design turned some people away, but it also brought in additional customer base. As far as financial result goes, it appears BMW made a right decision as overall sales are up. The magazine sometimes tends to write attention getting headlines that is not reality based.

VelocitE55

I think the new GS is awesome. It looks like its swept with speed. A really nice body IMO. And it has more features than you know what to do with. A huge step in the right direction. We just bought one last night! I couldnt believe the amount of compliments and thumbs up I have recieved in just 24 hours. People are really taken by the look and the new GS will be very successful without question.

onesixeight

Nothing against the new GS...I think it looks alright, A little conservative for me...but they sell a lot of them, so they gotta be doing something right.

But does anyone else think it looks like the Infiniti M35/45? Whenever I see either go by, I mistake one for the other...

DRCrowder

That is 100% correct, that is because the BMW group has many brands the 5, 7, and z4 are way way down (I love my Z4!), and the 6 isn’t selling as they’d like.

EX-BEEMER

I've got to add (as you can tell from my screen name) that Bangle is no fan of mine. But increasing sales figures have me wondering, "maybe it's just me?"

I am appalled at the new 5 series. Other than driving power and prowess there is nothing I like about the car. I keep wondering if I'll warm to the design but so far it still leaves me cold.

My heart warms when I approach my E55, and although it's not the best in the twisties, we'll give the M5 a run for it's money straight line.

As for the Lexus GS...I love the new style. So much better than the old one. Plus they're cutting edge with all the sound systems and gadgetry. But until Lexus decides to get serious about HP and performance, it'll just be a well made family cruiser.

Can Drive 55

I agree with you that the new GS has some positive aspects, but there are some definite design problems. I traded my 2004 Lexus LS430 last week for my E55 that should arrive in 3 weeks, or so. The Lexus was a good quality car, but it irritated me almost every time I drove it . The telephone, navigation, seat memory, and radio RDS functions would either be disabled or severely limited while the car was in motion.

The telephone keypad and large phone book were inaccessible unless the vehicle was stopped . The one-touch (17 entries only) phonebook was accessible while moving. I need to make a phone call - oh wait while I pull over on the shoulder of the interstate. Yea right! The voice control does not link up with the phone, so there is no "telling" the car the number. If it was not the last number dialed or in the 1 touch, you don't dial it while moving (That is unless you dial on the cell phone itself and this does not work very well because the Bluetooth will not connect until the party answers the phone. There is a delay while this is going on and often the dialed party will hang up because there is no one on the line.)

The navigation system has the capability to list points of interest, e.g. restaurants and display information consisting of address and phone number. There is an icon of a telephone in the information dialog box. One only has to touch the icon to call the restaurant. Good idea, huh. It would be even better if it would give the driver access while in motion. Dumb, dumb planning. Also, there is a message every time the car is started that requires an occupant to touch the nav screen to agree with the disclaimer. No touch, no nav . Also, the nav screen is the default screen for the display. I don't know about you, but I don't need the map nearly as often as I need the radio display. So, I was constantly changing the display to the radio mode. Every time the car is placed in reverse or when the park assist alerts the driver, the system goes back to the nav screen, whether it was on radio or not. More irritations.

The memory buttons on the seat (driver's only) only function while stopped and the transmission in neutral or park. Another bad example of Japanese lawyers making too many decisions.

The FM radio has the RDS message capability. Don't even think about asking for the message while moving.

There you have it. Some of the reasons that I started my vehicle search. In a way, I am glad the car was soooooo mal-engineered. I now have an Alabaster White Beast inbound. Happy motoring everyone.

enzom

Tell me about it. I had two 540's. A 1998 540a and a 2001 540 Sport. I loved them both. They were my absolute favorite "driving" cars overall of all the cars that I have owned or leased. It broke my heart to see what they did with the new 5 series. Not only is it ugly, they added so many gimmicks (i-drive, active steering) that the driving magic of yesterday's BMW was lost. Just terrible. I guess the good news is that had the 5 series not been such a mess, I wouldn't be driving my E55.

Rock

I have listed 04/05 sales. Draw your own conclusions, but I'm not sure that the sales increase is due to beautiful designs. Could the amplified sales be due to a greater product offering, gadget technology that has mass appeal, or just better marketing by BMW? Honestly, I think more and more people are just born with bad taste.

BMW Car Sales Report for February 2005

2005 2004

February 13,341 13,584
Year-to-Date 25,952 24,191

Model February Year-to-Date February Year-to-Date
2005 2005 2004 2004

325i 3,315 6,401 2,492 4,761
325Ci 317 639 539 962
325Ci convertible 463 826 581 984
325i sport wagon 75 167 148 248
325xi 706 1,554 1,308 2,309
325xi sport wagon 83 207 125 188
330i 864 1,673 467 980
330Ci 211 470 391 693
330Ci convertible 340 651 515 919
330xi 408 845 467 828
M3 268 527 397 746
M3 convertible 131 254 239 442
3 Series 7,181 14,214 7,669 14,060

Z4 2.5i roadster (US) 338 648 490 690
Z4 3.0i roadster (US) 131 270 325 458
Z3 and Z4 469 918 815 1,148

525i sport wagon (E39) 0 0 19 19
525i (E60) 1,513 2,739 1,324 2,401
530i (E60) 1,570 2,965 1,683 2,837
540i Sports Wagon (E39) 0 0 2 2
545i (E60) 709 1,366 733 1,163
M5 (E39) 2 2 19 33
5 Series 3,794 7,072 3,780 6,455

645Ci 311 564 0 0
645Ci Convertible 456 864 0 0
6 Series 767 1,428 0 0

745i 397 742 504 935
745Li 704 1,494 754 1,459
760i 7 16 0 0
760Li 19 64 52 113
7 Series 1,127 2,316 1,310 2,507

Z8 2 2 0 1
Z8 Alpina 1 2 10 20
Z8 3 4 10 21

BMW Sports Activity Vehicle (light trucks) Sales Report for February 2005

2005 2004

February 5,015 3,319
Year-to-Date 9,251 6,091

Model February Year-to-Date February Year-to-Date
2005 2005 2004 2004

X3 2.5i 440 834 372 381
X3 3.0i 1,879 3,296 698 1,472
X3 2,319 4,130 1070 1,853

X5 3.0i (US) 1,906 3,637 1,656 3,224
X5 4.4i (US) 668 1,294 588 1,004
X5 4.6is (US) 0 0 5 10
X5 4.8is (US) 122 190 0 0
X5 2,696 5,121 2,249 4,238

MINI Sales Report for February 2005

2005 2004

February 3,140 2,658
Year-to-Date 6,057 5,414

Model February Year-to-Date February Year-to-Date
2005 2005 2004 2004

MINI Cooper 906 1,993 1,304 2,761
MINI Cooper S 1,284 2,266 1,354 2,653
MINI Cooper Convertible 520 980 0 0
MINI Cooper S Convertible 430 818 0 0

Total MINI 3,140 6,057 2,658 5,414

MBH

I've purchased 5 BMW's in my lifetime. All where from the late 1980's and early to mid 90's( Pre-Bangle days). I loved the old ones, but the new ones Look like crap inside and out!!!!!

I will just keep buying Mercedes and drive them with a big smile on my face.

MBH
2005 E55

krispykrme

That is your opinion. I happen to like Chris Bangle's design on the Z4, E60, and E90. I still do not like the E65/E66.

The new BMW are more energetic and young. It's appealing to new set of buyers and in mean time losing some old traditionalist. I had 3 BMW's all from early 2000 and onward. While E39 looks classy, it's not sporty or young. W211's exterior is bland, but looks classy. But it's not much different from previous W210.

I give BMW Kudo's for wanting to be different. So far, I think it has been a sucess from the sales figure. Bad taste is your opinion, simple as that.

Mercedes is at the other end of spectrum that appeals to older buyer that has perception set in and can't move or accept change. Some people like me like the new edge design and are more than willing to adapt to new trend. This may be bad taste in your eye. But I can say the same about your taste for old traditional design.

krispykrme

5 and 7 are not way down. In fact it has did quiet well. In addition, there are now X5 and X3 taking sales away from other BMW.

The Z4 and Z3 has never sold well.

BMW does not have that many brand (three- BMW, mini, Rolls). In addition, the BMW division sales along is on the rise. Hence this argument does not hold water.

Rock

FYI- I have had three BMW M3s over the last seven years and hardly consider myself a traditionalist. I have no problem with design changes, even if they are radical, but they have to possess some aesthetic quality. Most reviews and most opinions do not praise Bangle's designs. Like I previously suggested, maybe there are other factors, besides appearance, that are responsible for the increase in BMW sales.

Go to M3Forum.com. and similar sites. The majority of members deplore Bangle's work. I was and still am a fan of BMW but some times you have to call a dog, a dog.

VelocitE55

Quote-Draw your own conclusions, but I'm not sure that the sales increase is due to beautiful designs. Could the amplified sales be due to a greater product offering, gadget technology that has mass appeal, or just better marketing by BMW? Honestly, I think more and more people are just born with bad taste.-Quote

This is a very good point to consider, and in all likelyhood its the answer.

shoes

Let me add my voice to the lament over BMW's wayward path.

I have owned 12 BMW's and favored the marque over all other until they were bangled. Despite my loathing for the exterior and interior design, I believed that the BMW engineers would protect the product, so I bought a 2004 545 and a 2005 645. None lasted more than a month in my garage.

I got used to I drive, but I never liked it. I got used to the way the turn signals work but never liked it. I never got used to the active steering. I never got used to the odd combination of positions mandated by the seat/steering wheel program. I never got used to listening to "bling, bling" every time I turned the car off, removed the key, waited 10 seconds and then opened the door, hoping I wouldn't have to listen to, "bling, bling". I NEVER GOT USED TO THE WAY THE RUN FLAT TIRES RUINED THE RIDE QUALITY.

After a few weeks of ownership I asked myself, "Why do I have to make myself learn to appreciate all these bad decisions that BMW has made for me? So I dumped the cars and now all I drive is Mercedes.

Is this what you want BMW? You want to drive your loyal customers into the arms of Mercedes? You want to treat your fans with arrogance? You want to tell your customers that they aren't smart enough to appreciate what you have done to your designs.

I have voted with my pocketbook.

WalshyNC

The current 7 series has sold more models than all other 7 series combined

krispykrme

Like i said, BMW will lose customer that does not want to change. But in the mean time its gaining more customer as well.

In some cases, I agree with BMW's design. I like I-drive. For someone that grows up in windows environment, I find using a big knob is perfectly fine for me.

Active steering is better than the non-linear steering you have on the E55. This i will totally disagree with you.

Arrogance? May be for someone that can't accept the change. Like you said, if you don't like it you can bail to other brand. Simple as that.

Yes, i do feel that BMW is right to lose some customers.

vitaman

Shoes is the man. Well said.
However, as long as BMW sells cars they could care less what their buyers think, much less the opinions of buyers of a different marque.
There is no perfect car. Just as we put up with the E55's idiosyncrasies, there are people who will put up with BMW's design for the sake of the name, heritage and driving experience.

amg55

Let's agree on one thing in the arena of opinions about BMW styling: the majority of car magazine writers (who have always been heavily biased in favor of BMW in almost every way) have criticized BMW harshly for the Bangle designs.

Sure, there will be many buyers who will like them. Everyone's taste is different. taste is not an objective entity.

But BMW's most visible supporters---the car mag writers---have sent a message.
I was at my wife's BMW dealer last week and he very apologetically admitted that BMW has internally acknowledged that they moved in the wrong direction on many of their designs. The 7 series was the worst offender (his statement, not mine).

An aside: European opinions about the Bangle designs have been at odds with general US opinions according to many people. Fewer complaints 'across the pond'.

neutronium

Add me to the list...

We've owned several BMWs -- and still have an X5

I was looking at both the M5 and the E55. When I saw the first pictures of the new M5 my wife and I looked at each other and walked to the MB dealer and bought our Silver E55.

We love the E55...and still shudder at the new BMWs

postoak

BMW sales are up, but Detroit News Article

shoes

I can understand why BMW's sales are up for now- I have purchased three in the last 12 months. But I hated all three of them, sold them and won't buy again. I think it will take time for people to have experience with the new models, decide they don't like them and the brand's image will be tarnished and then sales will fall.