Erik

Agree with you, but he said did not say everyone, it said " I just think naive reactions from a few members are degrading the entire group which shall be stopped".

But as you know " those that make the most noice are the ones that get the attention, and small dog bark the most.... or something like that


But thats the problem right here Enzom.

NOBODY has said that the M5 with 4 people destroyed", "demolished", "humiliated", etc the E55.
I did so in this link, it was then accepted by your member E55power.
It did beat the E55 but just barly and after a long run side by side, also informed somewhere in this caos by a passenger in the M5. I belive the win was app 1 CL.

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....&postcount=153

The term destroyed", "demolished", "humiliated" mean zero to me since it is used from everything from a tiny vicotory to several Buslengts win. Its mostly just a little spice to the story.

The time of 8,66 was not when it had 4 persons in it was it ? furthermore I belive they are to good to be thrue. 9-9,3 sec is more realistic on average.


Hey, thats fair....you are probably gonna win a few races to

Belmondo

I "might" not care or it "might" not matter or it "might" not change a thing, I doubt you get that.

DO you think what you do in the forum is memorable or life changing?
I hope you get it.

BMBW

Then why did you bother to respond? You have no problem calling other people names, but you get your panties up in a bunch if someone calls you a name, proving my point.

Belmondo

Read your post, my friend:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by BMBW
I think I get it. If I called you an a-hole, I might mean it as an insult but you you might take it as a compliment. Is that about right?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was also thinking. I thought IF I respond you MIGHT get it?
You are talking about some: "If I, blah blah blah, I might blah blah blah ". To which I respond with : "I might not blah blah blah."


Think, IF you send me your picture, I MIGHT fall in love with you. I'm sure you are cute.
Think-- IF you never registered here , we MIGHT never talk this crap.
That just two of many what "IF's" and "MIGHT's".

Since you get easily confused by your own "IF" and "MIGHT", I "WIll" not respond to you, because I just hate to see you confused like that.
Panties, next you'll bring pink ribbons you wore today to school.

Best wishes to you right from my heart.
HOpe you get it now, my friend, without any IF's or MIGHT's.

enzom

Erik - I am not as good as you are at getting the darn quotes within my response. Rather than keep trying to figure it out, let me just say what I want. It is easier.

1. We both agree that the barking dogs are getting most of the attention. Not all E55/M5 owners and fans are (pick your negative adjective). Cool

2. Gustav's post on his M5 Board said (post # 74) of the thread regarding the test -

"The car is unbeleivable. Beated:

E55 AMG Kompressor
E55 AMG kompressor Estate. These cars does not stand a chansse esp. in higher speeeds and I have videos to prove it. . . .

It completely humiliates:

Porsche 993 Turbo with Turbo S engine package
E55 AMG Kompressor
E39 M5
Carrera 996 mkII"

He used "humiliates", and "does not stand a chansse (sic.)"

Maybe there is another post that caused us to believe the E55 was humiliated by an M5 with four passengers. I will take you at your word that something got mixed up.

3. Dave's Post (#202) again in that same thread on the M5 Board says:

"First of all a big thanks to Gustav for letting me put some instruments in the E60 M5, and to Patrik who drove the run, and to CID for looking up the gearing data I needed in his E60 M5 manual.

0-50 km/h _ 1.952 s _ 13.5 m
0-100 km/h _ 4.256 s _ 62.3 m
0-200 km/h _ 12.816 s _ 432.4 m
0-100 mph _ 8.656 s _ 223.6 m
1/4 mile _ 12.302 s _ at 121.4 mph (195.2 km/h)

Tolerance estimate of quarter mile time is +-0.034 s. . . .

Further, this is just one single run, and with Patrik, Gustav and me in the car."

So, it was not with four people riding in the car. It was only three. Still, doesn't really add up. You seem to agree. It doesn't make us right. It just means that the result strikes us as peculiar. That's all.

4. Thanks. All I am trying to do is be fair. I am sure that I will lose many, too. Won't be the first time someone handed me my **** at the track.

RS-Kicker

Okay...

Fact:

The M5 is faster than the E55. But the M5 does not humiliate it.

enzom

Not quite a fact yet. When we see timeslips from customer cars - we can make a factual determination. They may be so close that on any given day, one will be faster than the other. Let's wait and see. Shouldn't be too much longer.

Bubbaboy

Thanks for that post...I agree with you.


JD

Erik

I think it is fair to say Enzom that the m5 is faster, that has been confirmed over and over again, beeing to 60 and all the way to 125 mph. What happen above that speed we have seen what happens.


The only thing we do not know, is who will be in front at the 1/4 mark on your prepped tracks in the US, or if the US version is significantly different than the Euro, and that I do not know. I dont think so, but its possible, the US LC could also be set up differently than in Europe as is the SMGII on the M3.
Its also going to be interessting to see how the LC works in a sticky track.....

enzom

Erik - it probably will be confirmed. And I am totally ready to accept that.

But until the cars are here in the US, the extent of its advantage will not be known. That's been my point. I don't really place too much stock in magazine tests, and there are too many things about the Gustav orchestrated test that still leave many (both on this board and on the M5 board) scratching their heads. When it gets here, we will have more fair comparisons that will allow us to draw conclusions. If, for example, the LC on the US-spec M5 is detuned, deactivated or otherwise reengineered as it was on the US-spec M3, US spec cars will NOT match the standing start performance of their EU counterparts. They simply cannot. So we can speculate all we want, but we won't know diddly about how the US-spec customer cars compare until they are here. And I can't wait to see them on the road.

Erik

We probably can agree that we agree at least 99,9%

I probably have more faith in the results gotten from the German magasine like Sport Auto and Auto Motor & Sport than you have......
And the event that was orchestrated by Gustav is a hell of lot more telling than any random race on the streets.

And neither of the car will totaly humiliated any of the other, if something like that is posted in the future, it is due to driver error.

Also I have seen results form the M5 with and without LC, also in different manuel modes and the difference was not that huge, at least not to speed. How the different settings will effect the first few meters I ihave no idea......

RS-Kicker

I am talking about what we did at the airfield.

At that time none of the 2 E55s were faster than the M5.

Look at the video and see what we saw.

enzom

I know what you are talking about. That M5 pulled away from that E55 at speed. We saw it too.

Belmondo

Its all good points , but you should also remember that as far as I know this BLUE M5 is the only ONE M5 that was ever tested by magazines or anybody else--if I'm wrong, please show evidence that contradicts what I think .

If it was the same blue M5 thar run in ALL the tests printed, than you don't know if BMW changes and tunes engines for each test , if every engine tuned to the max. It would be hard to believe that there is this blue M5 for ALL the abuse/tests running strong without ANY issues and there are like only 5 total deliveries that we know of in Germany Sweden and a few /one in Mideast. THe production is again stopped, the M5's are nowhere. At this point for all I know this one blue M5 could have been hand build/tuned for these tests only. If as gustav speculated that this car thats been used in all the tests will be sold--I'm sure BMW can put in new/different engine/trasmission before the sale. I'd like to see THIS car sold, I doubt it will be, but hey anything can happen, lets wait and see.

I dont know what they are trying to work out and will not speculate, but the production car that will be delivered here is the one veryone should be interested in --- not one blue M5 that overatchieves in all the tests. I find it hard to believe that they can't produce 100 cars while this blue "stalion" running without any issues all day long for multiple tests.

Watch this video with Michael Jordan and Rossi driving the same "fantastic" BLUE M5 a while ago , I bet its the same M5 that went against CLS55 as well. I'm sure its easy to keep one car and just replace/tune motors or parts, transmission and so on, on one car , than to produce 3-4 M5 for tests. If there 100 tests with "fantasic" results by one car it remains to be seen if any other M5 can come close.

I doubt BMW would provide car that could not beat stock E55, whether every M5 will be as blessed as this blue "dream" car remains to be seen. I dont see anything wrong with being a bit sceptical. Once you convince people that M5 is faster by providing 100 tests but done ALL on ONE car than even if production cars dont come close, one can always point out to 100 results out htere , how many will know/remember that it was all by one M5?

SAME BLUE M5 video with Rossi Jordan

SoulBladeZA

So you are convinced BMW has but one car for the whole of Europe?

Here's some simple proof :


Review of the M5

And


Also, alot of the car programs on television showed that at the press days, there were as many Blue as there were Silver M5's, all running the exact same way. We are talking about 20+ cars here. The journo's would get maybe a silver car to test the launch control, then later get a blue one for shooting some footage and taking it to some mountain passes. These all behaved in the exact same way. Claiming that there is only ONE car is fairly ignorant. Note how I have failed to insult you. I'm sure you will retort with a childish insult because you know you are just grabbing at straws.

Belmondo

It could be, that the next true step to improve performance on these cars is not to produce more HP but to have 7 speed transmissions and M5 has it and E55 does not.

It could be that MB is producing these AMG engines with all this HP not only to have the most of htem on the paper but also because they don't have/did not have good gearbox, so HP and torque is how MB approaches performance with present 5 speed TR on AMG's .

May be, when new 7 speed TR becomes available, MB will not need the SC'd engines anymore to be faster and therefore they are going back to N/A engines.

I simply would like to see more than one and the same M5 Tested.

I do prefer ANY magazine article on the same blue M5 over gustaff's pompous BS simply because , I think, every magazine, has more than one source of income, while gustaff has nowhere to go but BMW, or sell
his "test" video on CD for $10 as he and others in the process of doing now. He posts "teasers" and one video, creates interest and than wants to sell them at $10. I'd say it could be very profitable and good advertisement for BMW of this one blue M5 at a fraction of the cost of making "BMW films".

Belmondo

Even one of the dudes who was at the "test" and sings songs to M5 says that THAT car run as it did after "abuse" by multiple magazines.
Do I believe its hte same car --yes. YOu can believe what makes sence to you.
I doubt there are 20+ M5's for "tests" by magazines--may be as dealer demos or presentations , but all 20+ for tests??
I doubt all 20 were used in the different magazines.

xscream
Member

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Vehicle I drive: RS4, GrandCherokee S/Cd
Posts: 93

The M5 is just about to be released, this one was a press-car...

I had the opportunity to go for a ride in it, and WOW, I was so impressed.

First of all, the guy that borrowed it from BMW drove it to its max all day, (and this is even after it has been abused by several magasines etc), and it could still, with 4 passengers, keep up with the Gallardo from 50-250km/h.
The two E55s (touring and sedan) didnt keep up with it at all.

enzom

There has to be more than one test car. I don't know how many more, but it can't be just one, can it?

By the way, I was under the impression that a large number of M5's have been delivered in Europe. Is that not true?

vraa

This is not humiliation.




This is humiliation.



Now, since I have my AP Statistics test on Wed, I might as well try to flex my knowledge and brush up on some common rules for that course.

Having just one test is too small. You need to have at least 30 races to be able to get some kinda decent conclusion. And on top of that, they have to be 30 random races otherwise you end up with things like 'but this car had X tires' or variables such as the driver being the same across all the cars. That's not good because it'll skew your results.

So I conclude; any definite arguments about the E55 being faster than the M5 or vice versa are just things out of air. Let whoever believe whatever as of right now, but until these M5's start landing at dealers (or garages, whatever), nothing will be concrete. We're still 'magazine' racing right now, and as fun as it is, it's completely unproductive and just leads to name calling.

enzom

Holy cow, Ricky - you've been listening to what I have been saying for weeks. I feel important. :p Thanks!!!

Actually - just happy to see someone agree with what I have been stating.

Great pic, BTW.

Blocktrader

Do you really think the guy was humiliated while he was dying in that accident? How about a litle respect for the dead?

IanSL55

Add me to the list. I'm all for 'real world' tests, however when you're comparing two different cars it technically impossible to match them up on equal footing - there are simply too many variables to consider. Maybe some day they'll be able to model things by computer... at very least it would take out the human (driver) element which I feel is totally under-rated in these so called 'races'.

~ Ian

vraa

Have you read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus? Or Something liek that... When a man feels important, he feels loved. I love you enzom

I never meant it in a disprespectful manner. My apoligies.

Equal footing IMO is overrated. Then we might as well just drop two eggs off a tower to see which hits the ground first. Yeah.. it's that much fun Once we have more guys testing the M5 versus our very own E55, then is it reasonable and rationale to make a decision. But for right now, it's still just too early, and to steal a bit from you 'simply too many variables to consider'.

Modeling things by computer, wow won't that take the fun out of racing!
"Yeah bro, my computer says my cars faster"
"Damn" *forks over forty bucks*

IanSL55

I'm just trying to get logical here. Y'all can race your cars and argue all you want... but math never lies.

It always amazes me that people use racing to compare cars. To me racing compares drivers. They don't say Chevrolet won at Talladega (Jeff Gordon) or Ford at Texas Motor Speedway (Greg Biffle) for a reason... and we can take a look at NHRA to say the same thing.

If you want to compare cars (and not drivers) you have to take the drivers out of the equation... I've been smoked on a road course up at Sears Point Raceway (now Infineon) in a 911 by a professional driver in a GTI... so if you want to call that a test, I bet that same driver smokes Gustav in his M5 and that we all should be crowning the Volkswagon Rabbit the king of the road.

Jokes aside, I agree that you'd have to have 100's of runs to really determine which car is faster. I'd 'guess' the M5 only because it's newer - hell it should be the faster of the two. It also wins the ugly contest hands down.

~ Ian

vraa

But the Rabbits are kings of the road