Message to BoostedV8 on running modded without ECU
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Message to BoostedV8 on running modded without ECU
Looks like it's egg on my face. Guess it's not "the devil" to run modded without ECU, just not letting your motor run to full potential.
Here's what Kleemann sent back to me this AM
The factory ECU program runs VERY rich. It is OK to be overly rich, however, it is to the point of not making all the power you can get. Our headers reduce back pressure and exhaust gas temperatures, which allows us to run more timing (increasing TQ production significantly). So, with that being said, if this gentleman does not want to make all the power he could, it's his loss. It is not dangerous NOT to do the ECU upgrade, however, he will not realize the gains he could if he did the ECU, and he is without doubt burning more fuel than is needed.
I agree, my mileage going to Kleeman in Co Springs around 20-21mpg....coming back with 585hp...around 24, at that's just lower RPM highway.
Here's what Kleemann sent back to me this AM
The factory ECU program runs VERY rich. It is OK to be overly rich, however, it is to the point of not making all the power you can get. Our headers reduce back pressure and exhaust gas temperatures, which allows us to run more timing (increasing TQ production significantly). So, with that being said, if this gentleman does not want to make all the power he could, it's his loss. It is not dangerous NOT to do the ECU upgrade, however, he will not realize the gains he could if he did the ECU, and he is without doubt burning more fuel than is needed.
I agree, my mileage going to Kleeman in Co Springs around 20-21mpg....coming back with 585hp...around 24, at that's just lower RPM highway.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: NYC
03 E55 k2; Ford GT
Originally Posted by Jakpro1
Looks like it's egg on my face. Guess it's not "the devil" to run modded without ECU, just not letting your motor run to full potential.
Here's what Kleemann sent back to me this AM
The factory ECU program runs VERY rich. It is OK to be overly rich, however, it is to the point of not making all the power you can get. Our headers reduce back pressure and exhaust gas temperatures, which allows us to run more timing (increasing TQ production significantly). So, with that being said, if this gentleman does not want to make all the power he could, it's his loss. It is not dangerous NOT to do the ECU upgrade, however, he will not realize the gains he could if he did the ECU, and he is without doubt burning more fuel than is needed.
I agree, my mileage going to Kleeman in Co Springs around 20-21mpg....coming back with 585hp...around 24, at that's just lower RPM highway.
Here's what Kleemann sent back to me this AM
The factory ECU program runs VERY rich. It is OK to be overly rich, however, it is to the point of not making all the power you can get. Our headers reduce back pressure and exhaust gas temperatures, which allows us to run more timing (increasing TQ production significantly). So, with that being said, if this gentleman does not want to make all the power he could, it's his loss. It is not dangerous NOT to do the ECU upgrade, however, he will not realize the gains he could if he did the ECU, and he is without doubt burning more fuel than is needed.
I agree, my mileage going to Kleeman in Co Springs around 20-21mpg....coming back with 585hp...around 24, at that's just lower RPM highway.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 1
From: Moscow, Russia
E55K
Yep, but I dont understand why you with Headers have heating problems...
as I have been told by Kleemann Germany, Headers will reduce presure and boost from 0.9 to 0.7 and heat in the exhaust from 880 to 760...
I dont understand why you have a heating problems??? if heat went down...
Kleemann even said with stage 2 the 55 will be even more reliable....
and one more thing...
Do you have the whole exahust sys tem headers, cats, 70mm down pipes, middle and rear mufflers??? as you have 585 HP or else???
Stage 2 is 560 HP...
as I have been told by Kleemann Germany, Headers will reduce presure and boost from 0.9 to 0.7 and heat in the exhaust from 880 to 760...
I dont understand why you have a heating problems??? if heat went down...
Kleemann even said with stage 2 the 55 will be even more reliable....
and one more thing...
Do you have the whole exahust sys tem headers, cats, 70mm down pipes, middle and rear mufflers??? as you have 585 HP or else???
Stage 2 is 560 HP...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 3
From: El Paso, TX
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
Yep, but I dont understand why you with Headers have heating problems...
as I have been told by Kleemann Germany, Headers will reduce presure and boost from 0.9 to 0.7 and heat in the exhaust from 880 to 760...
I dont understand why you have a heating problems??? if heat went down...
Kleemann even said with stage 2 the 55 will be even more reliable....
and one more thing...
Do you have the whole exahust sys tem headers, cats, 70mm down pipes, middle and rear mufflers??? as you have 585 HP or else???
Stage 2 is 560 HP...
as I have been told by Kleemann Germany, Headers will reduce presure and boost from 0.9 to 0.7 and heat in the exhaust from 880 to 760...
I dont understand why you have a heating problems??? if heat went down...
Kleemann even said with stage 2 the 55 will be even more reliable....
and one more thing...
Do you have the whole exahust sys tem headers, cats, 70mm down pipes, middle and rear mufflers??? as you have 585 HP or else???
Stage 2 is 560 HP...
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: NYC
03 E55 k2; Ford GT
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
Yep, but I dont understand why you with Headers have heating problems...
as I have been told by Kleemann Germany, Headers will reduce presure and boost from 0.9 to 0.7 and heat in the exhaust from 880 to 760...
I dont understand why you have a heating problems??? if heat went down...
Kleemann even said with stage 2 the 55 will be even more reliable....
and one more thing...
Do you have the whole exahust sys tem headers, cats, 70mm down pipes, middle and rear mufflers??? as you have 585 HP or else???
Stage 2 is 560 HP...
as I have been told by Kleemann Germany, Headers will reduce presure and boost from 0.9 to 0.7 and heat in the exhaust from 880 to 760...
I dont understand why you have a heating problems??? if heat went down...
Kleemann even said with stage 2 the 55 will be even more reliable....
and one more thing...
Do you have the whole exahust sys tem headers, cats, 70mm down pipes, middle and rear mufflers??? as you have 585 HP or else???
Stage 2 is 560 HP...
medici78 is exactly right, while the internals of the lower half of the engine may be cooler, it is because the headers release more heat quicker to the outside world in other words the engine bay itself. Heat in the pistons is good and can produce more power in certain instances but a hotter intake charge is less dense and therefore less fuel and air get compressed in the engine. On ECU senses this heat in the air charge and richens the mixture (adds more fuel which means less air) which results in less power to overcome any potential detonation due to heat.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
07 S65
So if the extra heat is coming from the headers why hasn't someone try to wrap them. Has anyone tried the header wraps on our cars? I have seen them on some American cars and it works well. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I hope so, I can't remember the name of the product. Sorry guys, I'll do some research.
Derrick
Derrick
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: NYC
03 E55 k2; Ford GT
Originally Posted by DJe55
tried the header wraps on our cars? I have seen them on some American cars and it works well. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I hope so, I can't remember the name of the product. Sorry guys, I'll do some research. Derrick
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,764
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From: El Paso, TX
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Is anybody else using the pulley-only? From the looks of it, it seems like a "safe" upgrade. Around here, we only get 91 octane pi$$, so I probably wouldn't reap any benefits from the ECU anyway.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 1
From: Moscow, Russia
E55K
I dont kow why I repreat my self but Kleemann Germany said I better Not get a pullies and ECU K1 kit as heat in the mainfolds could causse a serious porblems running full throtle...880 is very high temp for any engine...
Then I've spoked to MKB and they say Nope E55 does not have any heating issues in Engine mainfolds and they do ECU programming (ignitionstiming and fuel mixture and etc.) and optimazed Air Duct intake (more air to throtles) abd get 540 HP, but they dont use pullies
to increase the boost and yet get more HP's then Kleemann but less Torgues 735 vs 750...
Then I've spoked to MKB and they say Nope E55 does not have any heating issues in Engine mainfolds and they do ECU programming (ignitionstiming and fuel mixture and etc.) and optimazed Air Duct intake (more air to throtles) abd get 540 HP, but they dont use pullies
to increase the boost and yet get more HP's then Kleemann but less Torgues 735 vs 750...
Almost a Member!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. The guys at Kleemann are straight shooters. And I may send them my pcm to see what the timing advance will pick up on the dyno. Right now I am very please to have 473 rear wheel hp. If you factor in a 23% driveline loss then this is about 580 hp at the flywheel in a total luxury car.
Originally Posted by Jakpro1
Looks like it's egg on my face. Guess it's not "the devil" to run modded without ECU, just not letting your motor run to full potential.
Here's what Kleemann sent back to me this AM
The factory ECU program runs VERY rich. It is OK to be overly rich, however, it is to the point of not making all the power you can get. Our headers reduce back pressure and exhaust gas temperatures, which allows us to run more timing (increasing TQ production significantly). So, with that being said, if this gentleman does not want to make all the power he could, it's his loss. It is not dangerous NOT to do the ECU upgrade, however, he will not realize the gains he could if he did the ECU, and he is without doubt burning more fuel than is needed.
I agree, my mileage going to Kleeman in Co Springs around 20-21mpg....coming back with 585hp...around 24, at that's just lower RPM highway.
Here's what Kleemann sent back to me this AM
The factory ECU program runs VERY rich. It is OK to be overly rich, however, it is to the point of not making all the power you can get. Our headers reduce back pressure and exhaust gas temperatures, which allows us to run more timing (increasing TQ production significantly). So, with that being said, if this gentleman does not want to make all the power he could, it's his loss. It is not dangerous NOT to do the ECU upgrade, however, he will not realize the gains he could if he did the ECU, and he is without doubt burning more fuel than is needed.
I agree, my mileage going to Kleeman in Co Springs around 20-21mpg....coming back with 585hp...around 24, at that's just lower RPM highway.
