W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63

How much does altitude matter for the 1/4 mile?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old May 17, 2005 | 11:03 PM
  #1  
DerekFSU's Avatar
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
How much does altitude matter for the 1/4 mile?

Still trying to pick a track for this Friday night. What kind of difference will 900 ft compared to 600 ft compared to 30 ft matter? Some of the colder places have higher altitudes so I am trying to weigh the temp/altitude issue. Since I'll be driving 1,000 miles, I want to make the best choice possible.
Reply
Old May 17, 2005 | 11:07 PM
  #2  
vraa's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
Likes: 12
The tracks should be SAE corrected. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Reply
Old May 17, 2005 | 11:15 PM
  #3  
vraa's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
Likes: 12
Oops, I'm an idiot. Dyno's are SAE corrected, it'd be too hard to do that for tracks I think.

You can be off a good half a second depending on the altitude because of the lack of oxygen from what I've seen from none S/C'ed E55's. Guys from Dallas compared to Houston and what not.
Reply
Old May 17, 2005 | 11:25 PM
  #4  
Stephen04E55's Avatar
Super Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Liked
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 881
Likes: 54
From: Mechanicsville, VA
'09 CLK550, '18 AMG GTR, '06 C55 AMG, '25 GLS450, 09 E63
Tracks are not corrected on the slips you receive at the track. You can do your own corrections due to altitude at the NHRA web site. Check out this web site that calculates the air densities due to alititude, temp, and humidity. This gives a "density altitude" measurement so apples to apples comparisons can be made. http://www.wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm

You will find at the same altitude that air temperature affects the density of the air the most.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 08:03 AM
  #5  
DerekFSU's Avatar
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
I guess what I am trying to figure out is if one tract is 8 degrees warmer but is at 30 ft versus the cooler track at 900 feet.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 09:06 AM
  #6  
Jakpro1's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Most tracks have a "track record" web page....I would compare those records with tracks around the US including your own down there. Should at least help a little. So many variables including actual track prep ya know......gonna be a "close your eyes and put your finger on the map" call as to which track.

Worse comes to worse....find some of those track record guys "blah blah blah racing" call them and ask them. The locals would know.

Good luck man.

Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 09:39 AM
  #7  
Marcus Frost's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
1000ft of altitude will adversely affect performance more than 8 degrees of ambient temperature.

-m
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 10:19 AM
  #8  
Jakpro1's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I agree with Marcus....go with Sea Level Derek....take it from a guy who ran 12.7 at 4300ft compared to your 11.7. Although this is wayyyy off scientifically, logically that would be about .25 sec with every 1000ft. Would hate to have you make that long drive and get killed by even 1000ft. More air makes that Kompress perform like she should....a BEAST!!
Reply
MB World Stories

The Best of Mercedes & AMG

story-0

6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)

 Verdad Gallardo
story-1

Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun

 Verdad Gallardo
story-2

Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

 Verdad Gallardo
story-4

Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know

 Verdad Gallardo
story-7

5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve

 Verdad Gallardo
story-8

Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping

 Verdad Gallardo
story-9

10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used

 Verdad Gallardo
Old May 18, 2005 | 03:12 PM
  #9  
DerekFSU's Avatar
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Thanks guys. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Looks like that pushes me to the coast and away from Rockford.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 03:50 PM
  #10  
DRCrowder's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Collegeville, PA
05 E55, 03 Z4 3.0
Let me know if you are going to be in the mid-atlantic region. I'd love to get some runs in myself
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 03:59 PM
  #11  
gmdebruyn's Avatar
Super Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
2005 E55, 2010 ML350
The concentration of oxygen at increasing altitude remains constant, at 20.9%. This suggests that oxygen levels are unchanged. This is not true. Basically, as altitude increases, the atmospheric pressure declines. While the proportion of oxygen in air remains unchanged, the actual amount of oxygen in air decreases.

Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 760 mm Hg, with the corresponding partial pressure of oxygen in air is 159 mm Hg (20.9% or 760 mm Hg).

Invoke the Ideal Gas Law
PV = nRT

assuming one Liter of air
oxygen concentration = moles per liter (n/V) = P / RT

R = universal gas constant = 8.3145 J/mole K

so to compare your oxygen concentrations at different pressure/temperature levels for different locations, plug your temperature and air pressure into the following formula

Oxygen concentration =

((atmospheric presure(mm Hg)/760) * .21) / (8.3145) (Temperature (Celcius) + 273))

The higher the number, the more your car likes that location. Hope that helps.

Gareth
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 04:59 PM
  #12  
BMWEATR's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 0
From: strip bar in Oregon
211 E55(sold) & 80cc shifter kart
Originally Posted by gmdebruyn
The concentration of oxygen at increasing altitude remains constant, at 20.9%. This suggests that oxygen levels are unchanged. This is not true. Basically, as altitude increases, the atmospheric pressure declines. While the proportion of oxygen in air remains unchanged, the actual amount of oxygen in air decreases.

Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 760 mm Hg, with the corresponding partial pressure of oxygen in air is 159 mm Hg (20.9% or 760 mm Hg).

Invoke the Ideal Gas Law
PV = nRT

assuming one Liter of air
oxygen concentration = moles per liter (n/V) = P / RT

R = universal gas constant = 8.3145 J/mole K

so to compare your oxygen concentrations at different pressure/temperature levels for different locations, plug your temperature and air pressure into the following formula

Oxygen concentration =

((atmospheric presure(mm Hg)/760) * .21) / (8.3145) (Temperature (Celcius) + 273))

The higher the number, the more your car likes that location. Hope that helps.

Gareth

holy *****, somebody was awake in science class
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 05:16 PM
  #13  
DerekFSU's Avatar
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Wow. Let's just say that it took me 7 years to get my 4 year degree.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 06:01 PM
  #14  
Marcus Frost's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
Originally Posted by DerekFSU
Thanks guys. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Looks like that pushes me to the coast and away from Rockford.
Who told you Rockford is at 900ft?

Rockford is no more than ~700ft above sea level... drive there, it's as flat as the landscape can get.

-m

Last edited by Marcus Frost; May 18, 2005 at 08:01 PM.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 07:01 PM
  #15  
Jakpro1's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Originally Posted by gmdebruyn
The concentration of oxygen at increasing altitude remains constant, at 20.9%. This suggests that oxygen levels are unchanged. This is not true. Basically, as altitude increases, the atmospheric pressure declines. While the proportion of oxygen in air remains unchanged, the actual amount of oxygen in air decreases.

Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 760 mm Hg, with the corresponding partial pressure of oxygen in air is 159 mm Hg (20.9% or 760 mm Hg).

Invoke the Ideal Gas Law
PV = nRT

assuming one Liter of air
oxygen concentration = moles per liter (n/V) = P / RT

R = universal gas constant = 8.3145 J/mole K

so to compare your oxygen concentrations at different pressure/temperature levels for different locations, plug your temperature and air pressure into the following formula

Oxygen concentration =

((atmospheric presure(mm Hg)/760) * .21) / (8.3145) (Temperature (Celcius) + 273))

The higher the number, the more your car likes that location. Hope that helps.

Gareth
With all due respect Gareth, I find your calculations as much laughable as they are incorrect.

First, you refer to approximation but it is infinitely divisible, unquantized, rigid, and absolute. Need I remind you that total energy of a bounded system, can attain only certain discrete values determined by the system.

It's as if you completely rewrote Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle to fit your own beliefs.

Let's set the record straight..... The probability distribution of an observable in a given state can be computed from the spectral decomposition of the corresponding operator. AFTER AND ONLY AFTER the measurement is conducted, the system's state will be an eigenstate corresponding to the measured eigenvalue.

Granted, your intial premise that the operator corresponding to the energy observable, plays a prominent role.....a state of the system is a unit vector in that space, and every observable is represented by a self-adjoint densely defined linear operator on that space.

Listen, I certainly don't mean to start a flame war, but I feel this post pretty much ends this debate.....bottom line.....The probabilistic nature of the mechanics predictions cannot be explained in terms of some other deterministic theory, and do not simply reflect our limited knowledge. It only provides probabilistic results because the physical universe is itself probabilistic rather than deterministic.










Had ya going didn't I......ahhh, I'm as stupid as an ox....I just copied the rantings of Stephen Hawking. I only wish I could be half as smart as you Gareth...just busting your chops.

Last edited by Jakpro1; May 18, 2005 at 07:03 PM.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 08:14 PM
  #16  
gmdebruyn's Avatar
Super Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
2005 E55, 2010 ML350
Originally Posted by DerekFSU
Wow. Let's just say that it took me 7 years to get my 4 year degree.
Derek, my 5 year degree took 6. No worries. All the best people stay a little longer. I just enjoy this stuff.

Jakpro, I was about to quote you the stastical probability of your head being lodged far up your... but I rolled over laughing at the end there. Good one.

Of course my little calculation goes out the door once you add what Hillsman's got running in his car. Just using Oxygen as the item that is limiting our slow little sedans... For me I need to work more on the skill factor first. Then I need to setup an appointment with Cory.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 08:20 PM
  #17  
DerekFSU's Avatar
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost
Who told you Rockford is at 900ft?

Rockford is no more than ~700ft above sea level... drive there, it's as flat as the landscape can get.

-m
It's 756 ft. So it's 144 feet less than your example. Would that elevation still hold your example true?
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 08:33 PM
  #18  
DerekFSU's Avatar
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Running into a problem now with TECH. Both NHRA and IHRA require lots a neat things like fire jackets and roll cages once a car runs under 11.50. I've talked with two tracks anonymously and they are rigid about it. Mentioned that they don't even give warnings, they just kick you out. I'd hate to drive 1,000 miles for one run, but I'll do it.
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 09:09 PM
  #19  
Vic55's Avatar
Administrator
MBWorld Ambassador

20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,263
Likes: 901
From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
Originally Posted by Jakpro1
With all due respect Gareth, I find your calculations as much laughable as they are incorrect.

First, you refer to approximation but it is infinitely divisible, unquantized, rigid, and absolute. Need I remind you that total energy of a bounded system, can attain only certain discrete values determined by the system.

It's as if you completely rewrote Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle to fit your own beliefs.

Let's set the record straight..... The probability distribution of an observable in a given state can be computed from the spectral decomposition of the corresponding operator. AFTER AND ONLY AFTER the measurement is conducted, the system's state will be an eigenstate corresponding to the measured eigenvalue.

Granted, your intial premise that the operator corresponding to the energy observable, plays a prominent role.....a state of the system is a unit vector in that space, and every observable is represented by a self-adjoint densely defined linear operator on that space.

Listen, I certainly don't mean to start a flame war, but I feel this post pretty much ends this debate.....bottom line.....The probabilistic nature of the mechanics predictions cannot be explained in terms of some other deterministic theory, and do not simply reflect our limited knowledge. It only provides probabilistic results because the physical universe is itself probabilistic rather than deterministic.










Had ya going didn't I......ahhh, I'm as stupid as an ox....I just copied the rantings of Stephen Hawking. I only wish I could be half as smart as you Gareth...just busting your chops.
You had me at "With all due respect Gareth"
Reply
Old May 18, 2005 | 10:29 PM
  #20  
DJE55's Avatar
Super Member
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
07 S65
Derek, if you think they are going to boot you let off a little on each run until you get that perfect launch. I had to make a few passes like that in my Mustang. I didn't have a roll bar and I new I would get the boot so I just ran it until I hit that perfect launch and then stayed in it for the rest of the run. Got the boot but still had a few nice runs.

Derrick
Reply
Old May 19, 2005 | 09:50 AM
  #21  
Marcus Frost's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
Derek,

I didn't say 900ft really mattered either, I just said go with the higher temp, even though 8 deg doesn't matter. @ 700ft you are looking probably at a .5mph loss in trap speed, something that is also very easily done @ a 10 degree higher temp.

My friend Chris didn't get harassed at Byron until his Lexus SC300 was running 10.30s @ 136mph without a cage, at full weight. I've seen many cars run sick trap speeds there, so I KNOW the track is fast.

Here's a correction chart for you. I think going to a well prepped track should be your #1 priority ahead of deciding if less than 1000ft or 8 degrees matters. NOTHING is going to matter if the track sucks, OR if you are going to get kicked out after 1 run.

http://www.greatlakesdragaway.com/co...onfactors.html

-m
Reply
Old May 19, 2005 | 02:09 PM
  #22  
medici78's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 3
From: El Paso, TX
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Originally Posted by DerekFSU
Running into a problem now with TECH. Both NHRA and IHRA require lots a neat things like fire jackets and roll cages once a car runs under 11.50. I've talked with two tracks anonymously and they are rigid about it. Mentioned that they don't even give warnings, they just kick you out. I'd hate to drive 1,000 miles for one run, but I'll do it.
What is really funny is that the E55 is probably safer than most of the other cars running 11.50 w/ cages and all that crap. I'd rather drive an e55 through a wall than an 11-second Rustang w/ a roll cage.
Reply
Old May 19, 2005 | 04:12 PM
  #23  
vraa's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by medici78
What is really funny is that the E55 is probably safer than most of the other cars running 11.50 w/ cages and all that crap. I'd rather drive an e55 through a wall than an 11-second Rustang w/ a roll cage.
Careful man. At those speeds almost anything is a death trap.
Reply
Old May 19, 2005 | 04:23 PM
  #24  
Marcus Frost's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
medici78 is right... out of all the cars I've seen wipeout at the track, it's the rusting muscle cars that are the ones who are most often going to get hurt bad. The NHRA is still living in the stone age by trying to tell us that a car like an SL65 needs a roll cage. It's a STOCK car. If Mercedes didn't give it a rollcage, and let's it run 155mph, it doesn't need a rollcage to run at the drag strip. The SL65 without a rollcage is 10 times safer at speed than almost all of those thrown together heaps at the drag strip.

-m
Reply
Old May 19, 2005 | 04:27 PM
  #25  
vraa's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 28,933
Likes: 12
Is the NHRA a corporation or elected members or what?
Reply

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:45 PM.

story-0
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)

Slideshow: Not every Mercedes design becomes timeless, some feel stuck in the era they came from.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:09:07


VIEW MORE
story-1
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun

Slideshow: Yes, Mercedes built manual cars, and some of them are far more interesting than you'd expect.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-02 12:36:58


VIEW MORE
story-2
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren

Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-29 11:19:28


VIEW MORE
story-3
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

Slideshow: Before curves took over, Mercedes mastered the art of the straight line, and some of those shapes still look right today.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-25 12:05:49


VIEW MORE
story-4
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction

Slideshow: The 190E Evolution II shows how a homologation necessity became a six-figure collector icon.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-22 17:53:47


VIEW MORE
story-5
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know

Slideshow: Mercedes is turning one of its core nameplates electric, and the details show just how serious this shift is.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-21 13:58:06


VIEW MORE
story-6
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know

Slideshow: Faster charging, longer range, and a controversial steer-by-wire system define the latest evolution of Mercedes-Benz EQS.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-15 10:35:34


VIEW MORE
story-7
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve

Slideshow: These overlooked Mercedes-Benz models never got the spotlight, but they quietly delivered more than most remember.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-13 19:35:45


VIEW MORE
story-8
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping

Slideshow: A well-used 1991 Mercedes-Benz 300D with more than one million miles is now looking for a new owner, and it still appears ready for more.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-10 10:05:15


VIEW MORE
story-9
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used

Slideshow: From bulletproof sedans to surprisingly tough SUVs, these Mercedes models proved that the three-pointed star can go the distance.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-08 09:55:49


VIEW MORE