skratch77

Dont forget for the e63 to take advantage of its NA power will need shorter gears.The m5 revs very high to make up for its short gears.

If you watch the vids of the m5 vs those ferrari's you can really see how well they did up top with there short gears and high red line.

from 7-8.4k is where the m starts to really pull on them.

The 550m in one of those videos has way more tourqe than the m5 with almost the same hp.It also weighs about 200lbs lighter.

BlownV8

The M5 revs high because that's where it makes its hp/tq due to its relatively small displacement. The E63 will not need to rev as high to make the same power due to its displacement. hp=tq*RPM/5252

E55AMG99

The current 7 speed. MB will beef it up before putting behind anything more powerful than the NA 55 motor in a heavy car.

MrAMG

skratch77

yes and BMW is using high rev with shorter gearing to make it how fast it is.

If you redline 4th in the m 5th gear comes in at 7k(very close gear ratios)This is why MB needs to use higher red line to make up for its shorter gearing

its max tq is at 6k and 80% of it is from 3k-5k so what do you mean when saying bmw needs highrev to make up for displacement.All m engines are high rev by nature and have a pretty flat tourqe curve.

vraa

Guys.

E55 > M5.

That is all.

Improviz

Yes, and Mercedes uses taller gearing to match the lower redline and fatter torque curves of its engines. This might be difficult for someone like you who knows nothing about physics, but automotive engineers generally know what the hell they're doing and tend to select gearing to match and optimize their engines' power curves. They're not sitting behind a computer dreaming about (or conversely insulting) cars they'll never own, like you.

Or it needs to keep manufacturing engines with lots of torque. What you're describing is optimizing the gear ratios to match the engine's energy curve--not exactly a state secret.

The key word is "flat torque curve", and Mercedes engines have this as well. What makes cars accelerate is the force applied to the wheels. Mercedes cars do this by using high torque engines with lower redlines and taller gear ratios, while BMW cars do this by using lower torque engines with higher redlines and shorter gear ratios. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages, but I don't see how you can realistically argue the superiority of BMW's method over Mercedes'.

Of course, you can try: Let's see you explain using scientific terms exactly why BMW's method of producing high acceleration is superior.

This should be entertaining.

E55AMG99

Don't be so hard on him. Physics was a really tough subject! .....NOT!

Anyway, I'm waiting for the F1 comparisons any minute.

skratch77

You take everything and turn it into **** impro.I said they will need to use hi rev like the m5 and use shorter gearing.Isnt the new MB engine revving over 7k?

im sure mb is working on the best ratios with the engine.My point of the m5 is the 5th and 6th gear shifts in that car are good for like 15 mph each(very close ratios)

Wut do you think is going to happen with the higher tourqe engine at lower speeds using shorter gearing?

impro watch the vid of the m5vs 550 and watch how quick the m pulls shifting into 5th and 6th.7th is an overdrive for cruising

with that much tourqe they cant get as agressive gearing with out more wheel spin.

reggid

Each method has its advantages.

-i suppose one advantage would be a "lighter" drive train in terms of both mass and in rotational inertia.
-disadvantage would be economy/efficiency because of increased frictional losses coming with higher engine speeds.

there are many more pros and cons but it in the end it comes down to what you prefer

reggid

both will be able to spin the wheels in a low gear so its not a real advantage either way

skratch77

thats the point im tryin to make.The next mb wont have as agressive gearing like the m5 does because of its tourqe adv.

the m5 has the lower tourqe and is able to use very short gearing and the higher rev to make up for it.

4th 5th and 6th in that car are good for 50 mph(very short) it has the rpms to alow them to do this.

I cant wait to see the e63 can do with its setup

reggid

the m5 is not really all that agressive in the lower gears but these cars are designed for the "autobahn" where 3,4,5,etc can be used.
There is no advantage in using either setup in the low gears because of traction issues so i believe AMG can still gear the new 6.3L agressively (not as agressive as the new m5 becasue it won't rev as much but they don't need to gear it too agressively anyway) in 3rd,4th.......etc where there won't be traction issues.

In the end crank torque and gearing are just used to maximise the rwhp at any given speed.

vraa

Wouldn't it be cool if the E63 came with light weight 3pc rims @ 11 inches or more in width?

Improviz

No need for me to take what is already **** (your constant pro-BMW, anti-Mercedes childish rants) and make it what it already is, eh troll?

Yes, but it also produces more torque down low than the M, and probably over its entire rev range.

In the first place, you're wrong as usual: => click here <=. The car hits its limiter at 171 in 6th, but is *geared* to 181, while 5th it redlines at 158. In the second place, what's your point?

Oh, I'll let you answer that one. Enlighten me.

As reg correctly pointed out, wheelspin will be a problem with any of the cars being discussed.

Bilal

Improviz<---- The funniest guy on Mbworld, Period.

a_ok2me

This is secretly coded to be viewed by E55 owners only isn't it. I downloaded it and my media player 10 can't play it.

Bilal

go to free-codecs.com and download this....

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...k_All_in_1.htm

<WARNING> BY CLICKING ON THIS LINK YOU ARE AGREEING TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE WEBSITE "FREE-CODECS.COM" AND THE CONDITIONS OF THIS POST. THE LINK IS PROVIDED TO YOU FREE OF CHARGE. THE PROVIDER, "Some lameasss--->"Bilal" ACCEPTS NO RESPONSIBILITY WHATSOEVER WITH REGARDS TO ANY SUBSEQUENT DAMAGE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR TO YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM OR LIFE OR EMPLOYMENT STATUS OR SEXUALITY. BY CLICKING ON THE LINK YOU ARE VEHEMENTLY ACCEPTING THESE TERMS AND PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK.

THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS ARE LEGALLY VALID WITH REGARD TO ANY APPLICABLE STATUTES AND COMMON LAW PRINCIPLES ONLY WITHIN THE LEGAL SYSTEM OF DJIBOUTI.

Seriously though, the website seems legit as they have their own forum<----how naive is that! Seriously, it seems legit....yeah right, ok I'll stop now....

a_ok2me

Thanks - it worked.