I'm about to pull the trigger on the stage 2 Kleemann mods. Its going to cost me about $6,995+tax for the parts and $850 for labor. Is this about right and are there any other options or considerations that I should explore or avoid during this process? Should I wait until after my next dealer main. trip to do this or just get it done ASAP? Thanks in advance.

Kevin

 

i dont think it really matters because if you decide to have the dealer do your service after the install, sooner or later, they will see the mods and will have to work around it.

 

The only thing you are going to run into when going Stage 2 is heat soak issues. Increased blower output = increased hp = much more heat. Some of the heat will rob you of what you would get with a more efficient cooling system. Kleemann installed a high flow pump on my car and it keeps it running like stock. Does not increase hp like EVO's kit...but keeps it stable. Ran around 500$ and few hundred for the install.

Also increased motor heat will reduced engine reliability in the long run, but so far we have not heard of major engine trouble/damage....yet.

Price is great.....right on the money.

You are gonna have to deal with the "you are criminal sneaking into a police station" feeling when you go to the dealer from now on. Most dealers are iffy at best on mods. Depending on how long you have to wait for service.....I would hit the dealer before the mods. If it's gonna be a long time...don't wait...just jump into it.

Wait till you feel the car with these mods.....it is literally night and day. Car just jumps to life when you hammer it.

Might as well hit one last nuclear issue and that is warranty.......man this is a hot button, but there is a risk that if you cook a 30K motor (45k installed per Benz dealer in Denver) , Benz could in theory fight you and say your mods caused it....you would have to go to court and fight them which could take a lonngggg time.....you might win..you might not... Just know the risks when you go into modding.

So far have heard of NO major damage with mods yet. There was video/pics of some guy with a hole in his block, but to the best of my knowledge....he was making some homemade blower/nos setup and intall and roached it.

Best of luck...you're gonna love it.

**update....*****, I almost forgot......I always assume everyone has LSD....you will have a lot of tire spin issues from start now...lot's of ESP blinking, so expect to be wanting LSD quickly.

 

Get a dyno before and after to compare gains. Try to use the same place, same technician and same time of day (weather conditions).

 

I've been looking at both Kleemann and Evosport and its hard to compare their stages because the Kleemann stage 2 has exhuast mods without plug wires while the Evosport stage 2 is the opposite. I prefer the stage 2 parts of the Kleemann package but I also want the Evosport brake upgrade which I can negotiate on if I do their stage 2 plus I'd save about $455 in sales taxes by going Evosport vs. Kleemann. Decisions, decisions.

Edit: On the warranty issue-I wonder if my dealer would note the mods when I bring it in for oil changes. If not, I could in theory, tow it to a speed shop and have it returned to stock trim before making any major warranty claims, right?

 

In researching past posts, it seems like the pulley upgrade is the primary culprit behind the heat soak but also a primary source of HP from mods. Would it be worthwhile to do Kleemann stage 2 without the pulley, add all the heat wrapping material, and add the lighter Evo brakes (34 lb. reduction in unsprung weight)? How much power would I be leaving on the table by skipping the pulley in favor of decreased heat (and increased lifespan)?

Kevin

 

Accomplice8,

Since you're already doing this major upgrade you may also want to get the LSD. All that power and you can't put it down to ground will just be a total waste.

 

That's the exact question I am trying to answer with all my testing. No ECU or pulley changes until everything else has been done. You already have almost 12lbs of boost!!! That is VERY HIGH boost if you look at alot of other cars and what they run with F.I...

You know what.... There is a local guy to me who has a Kleemann Stage 2 car.. I would love to setup a heads-up "run" against him just to see how much difference the computer & pulley make on the highway... I'll send him an email and see what he says... Maybe we can put this on video.

Personally, I would say to you to get a set of headers (you pick which one you prefer between EVO and Kleemann.. both are great products but work slightly different), get the EVO brake rotors, put on the cooling system.. I would do at least the high-flow pump, or do the full-out EVO system with heat exchanger.

The difference is already night & day for me now..

I am skipping over the LSD for now because I dont really feel I need it right now.

 

I don't do a lot (any?) hard launching. My problem is that every once in a while I hang around guys with 650 HP 996 turbos, SL65s, Gallardos and Murcies. These guys get away from me on highway pulls not to mention that the experience leaves my brakes limping. The whole mod/ reliability/ warranty risk issues scares the bajeezus out of me. Part of me wants to just heat wrap the crap out of my car, swap to the Evo brakes to reduce unsprung weight, and do some sort of straight pipe exhuast cut out and leave it at that. It seems like those are pretty risk free and get me closer to hanging with the exotic hardware (at least until the limiter kicks in at 155 MPH). A couple of these guys see 180+ on these road trips!

 

Victor,

We are surely of one mind on modding these E55s. How much are the cooling mods/ pump? Do you think that you got some loss of unsprung weight going to the CCW wheels? That is another option I'm looking at for painless performance gains.

Kevin

 

http://www.evosport.com/product/prod...ER.M5K.PPC.211

 

Hey Kevin,

Nice to see you here from 6speed.. I still hang there even though I sold my 996TT.. I still have a monster 993TT being built.

The CCW 19x9, 19x10 wheels that I have are 21lbs front and 23lbs rear. The stock AMG 18" wheels were 33lbs.. Lots of unsprung weight savings right there..

I will be adding the EVO rotors shortly.. Just wanted to finish with everything I already bought before getting anything more to sit around waiting to be installed.

The pump that Kleeman and EVO use are the same. They both use the Johnston pump. I bought the EVO one because I think there is more room for growth there.. The Johnston pump by itself I would guess is around $400 - $500.. EVO is selling the upgrade for $1995 I think.. Call and talk to Brad if you are interested in it.. Maybe he can do something better for you.

I would start with the exhaust and cooling and heat wrap mods.. try your car out and see how it feels to you. .From there you can decide which direction to go in. I would say moving slowly through the upgrade process is better with this car..

Good luck!

 

Yes .....on all mods cept for Kleemann headers....they will be welded to your system and first CAT will be removed.

Didn't mean to spook ya.

While I don't beat my car, I do use it for what that motor was built to do. Almost a year on mine....not a single hitch.

DerekFSU has dragged his Stage 2 a lot and again, not a problem....not even running nitrous which almost got him in the 10's. (Don't quote me on this) but I do not believe he has cooler mods on his.

True testimony to how stout these motors are built. Even trannies and rears to handle the torque on these 4300lb cars.

While I can't guarantee you will not have problems....chances are better than not, you will have no problems at all. Even if...they will be minor, but as with anything in life besides death and taxes, no guarantees.

Keep us posted.

 

If you're going with a major tuner then go with Kleemann. Brandon and Cory are amazingly customer service focused. I have called Evosport and repeatedly cannot get someone on the phone through their toll-free number. I have Brandon and Cory's cell phone (from Kleemann USA) and know that I can call them in an emergency for anything (thankfully I haven't need to, nor would I want to abuse it), plus they always answer their office phone.

 

5 months so far w/K2 plus LSD and IC mod with ZERO issues

Should have my throttle body installed soon and the car will be just as it should of been from the dealer.

Try talking to your dealer about the mods if you can. My IC mod & LSD installed by the dealer working with Cory, and so will the throttle body. My dealer inspects my K2 mods everytime it is in for service or recall work just to make sure nothing needs to be tighten.

 

Accomplice,

I sent you a PM, got a few posts for you to read...

-m

 

Is it possible to get Kleemann Stage 2 and then use EVO's high flow pump to increase HP even more? Or do they use the same pump? But then why does Kleemann's not increase HP?

Would there be any downsides to this approach - mismatched hardware, ECU programming etc.?

 

My Kleemann pump on my car is a Johnson pump that was designed to be a bilge pump to work on boats. It works constantly (unlike the stock Bosch unit) and has up to 30,000 hours before failure.

I believe this is the same pump the Evo uses. Kleemann has been using this pump for years when upgraded cars to a SC. Both great companies which I researched for a long time before going with Kleemann. I would recommend that you pick a tuner and stay with that tuner for most of your mods. It is much easier to trouble shoot that way since all parts designed to work as one.

That is what the engineer in me says

 

Very very true!

 

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. I've better defined my performance objective:

Reduce my 60-150 MPH time (now around 18.9 seconds) and the brake fade that comes with braking from repeated high speed runs. Ideally I'd like to reduce that 60-150MPH time to something along the lines of the Lambo Murcielago at 17.9 seconds or better yet, the upcoming M5 at 16.4 seconds. Let's bench race for a minute. Where do you guys think that the Kleemann stage 2 mods will get me in relation to these two other cars?

Kevin

 

If you're looking for just pure speed and fast acceleration go with Stage 3 Kleemann. Although you'll have to break out of your $7-8k spending limit. Get cams (along with all the kleemann engine goodies they sell) and maybe upgraded kleemann throttle body if they do offer it. And run 103+ octane. Don't know exactly what the relation is to those 2 other cars but you can bet it will be close if not faster. Just my 2 cents.

 

Do you know what the size/flow rate of the pump is?

 

If I remember correctly, the pump moves 96 litres versus stock 9 liters

 

Thanks guys, that's my hunch too, was hoping to squeeze out some extra HP, but yeah... not worth it in the event there are issues.

 

Can you share the dealer with us, either here or via PM?