Race Cats going in
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
....... Plus, lowering the boost level by removing a restriction will lower the intake air temperature and increase charge density
Adding a pulley setup will perhaps offset the lower IAT's & efficiencies gained... or not ? And heat soak back to where we were before ... but overall engine will be more efficient and obviously produce more power.
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
Boost goes down from 0.9 to 0.7...thats why you loose power...you need to adjust ECU to bring the boost back to 0.9...then you get the advantage of the exhaust...
Rgds Steve
Last edited by stevebez; Nov 4, 2005 at 04:28 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Savannah GA
2020 G550
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
BUT ....... you are increasing the engine's ability to move air - and that will cause a gain in HP, independent of what the S/C is doing. Plus, lowering the boost level by removing a restriction will lower the intake air temperature and increase charge density, which also increases HP.
That's why I used the words "much"
Valid point though
and I agree.
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From: Moscow, Russia
E55K
VRUS...
I thought you had Pullies already with those Headers...
You definately need the PULLIES and then adjust ECU accordingly, then you car will like it supposed to...Pullies and ECU will bring the boost back to 0.9...
Get proper Kleemann ECU...dont experiment...
I think you made too much problem for your self, wouldnt it be easilier, just to use Kleemanns approach???
The beast need to be tuned for mods accordingly...
How much money did you save???
I thought you had Pullies already with those Headers...
You definately need the PULLIES and then adjust ECU accordingly, then you car will like it supposed to...Pullies and ECU will bring the boost back to 0.9...
Get proper Kleemann ECU...dont experiment...
I think you made too much problem for your self, wouldnt it be easilier, just to use Kleemanns approach???
The beast need to be tuned for mods accordingly...
How much money did you save???
Last edited by E55 RUSS; Nov 4, 2005 at 09:31 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Don't you get it? I am experimenting on purpose. I know that I could have gone directly to Kleemann or Evosport or Brabus or Renntech and just dropped the car off and said, "Give me 700hp". What fun is that?
I enjoy tinkering and experimenting. It's the only way you can learn about your car. I always try to wrench on my own cars as much as I can and I know my limitations. Anything that is over my head I will go to a pro.
Besides, I have great people like Brad,Mike,Vadim @ Evosport and Cory @ Kleemann to bounce ideas off of.
I've been doing this build up very slowly and trying to cover all the efficiency problems first. Doing it the way I am is much more EXPENSIVE than going directly to a tuner and asking for Stage 1 or Stage 2 because you have to sometimes do things 2 or 3 times before getting it right. Not to mention all the dyno time.. At $130/hr, I've probably spent $1,500 just in dyno time.
What I will have when I have reached the end of my journey is an understanding of what can and cannot be done to these cars and what works and what doesn't. Hopefully everyone else can learn from my experiences also.
Once I have exhausted all of my ideas, if I am alot lower in power compared to where the tuners are with some other cars then I will get them to program my ECU and make other changes.
For now, I want to see what can be accomplished.
The real fun begins once I am done with ECU & pullies and I start doing the water/methanol injection testing!!
I enjoy tinkering and experimenting. It's the only way you can learn about your car. I always try to wrench on my own cars as much as I can and I know my limitations. Anything that is over my head I will go to a pro.
Besides, I have great people like Brad,Mike,Vadim @ Evosport and Cory @ Kleemann to bounce ideas off of.
I've been doing this build up very slowly and trying to cover all the efficiency problems first. Doing it the way I am is much more EXPENSIVE than going directly to a tuner and asking for Stage 1 or Stage 2 because you have to sometimes do things 2 or 3 times before getting it right. Not to mention all the dyno time.. At $130/hr, I've probably spent $1,500 just in dyno time.
What I will have when I have reached the end of my journey is an understanding of what can and cannot be done to these cars and what works and what doesn't. Hopefully everyone else can learn from my experiences also.
Once I have exhausted all of my ideas, if I am alot lower in power compared to where the tuners are with some other cars then I will get them to program my ECU and make other changes.
For now, I want to see what can be accomplished.
The real fun begins once I am done with ECU & pullies and I start doing the water/methanol injection testing!!
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
VRUS...
I thought you had Pullies already with those Headers...
You definately need the PULLIES and then adjust ECU accordingly, then you car will like it supposed to...Pullies and ECU will bring the boost back to 0.9...
Get proper Kleemann ECU...dont experiment...
I think you made too much problem for your self, wouldnt it be easilier, just to use Kleemanns approach???
The beast need to be tuned for mods accordingly...
How much money did you save???
I thought you had Pullies already with those Headers...
You definately need the PULLIES and then adjust ECU accordingly, then you car will like it supposed to...Pullies and ECU will bring the boost back to 0.9...
Get proper Kleemann ECU...dont experiment...
I think you made too much problem for your self, wouldnt it be easilier, just to use Kleemanns approach???
The beast need to be tuned for mods accordingly...
How much money did you save???
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
You are correct. There is always a give & take. The trick is finding the fine balance in between. Since my cooling upgrade is keeping the IAT in check I can afford to up the boost again. I will recheck the heat issues once the boost has been raised and see if it is still within a manageable level. If it isn't then I have other cooling methods I can employ.. The water injection will be step 1. The SLR style intercoolers will be step 2.
Then, maybe more boost.
Then, maybe more boost.
Originally Posted by stevebez
Adding a pulley setup will perhaps offset the lower IAT's & efficiencies gained... or not ? And heat soak back to where we were before ... but overall engine will be more efficient and obviously produce more power.
How can boost be increased by the ECU ? Boost is mechanically derived ...
Rgds Steve
How can boost be increased by the ECU ? Boost is mechanically derived ...
Rgds Steve
Thread Starter
Banned
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Great explanation! I've never looked at it from that point of view. Thanks for the clarification.
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
If there is a restriction in the exhaust system, then the spent gasses will not be completely evacuated from the cylinder and will limit how much fresh charge can enter. This will determine the engine's flow capability and, hence, set the boost level. If you remove this exhaust restriction, the spent gasses will be scavenged more efficiently and more fresh charge can enter. More charge entering means more air flow through the engine. More flow means more demand on the S/C. Since its output is fixed (by the pulley ratio), the boost level will go down.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 334
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From: So. Cal.
2004 E55 Evosport I & II; VRP H/E
Originally Posted by vrus
Don't you get it? I am experimenting on purpose. I know that I could have gone directly to Kleemann or Evosport or Brabus or Renntech and just dropped the car off and said, "Give me 700hp". What fun is that?
I enjoy tinkering and experimenting. It's the only way you can learn about your car. I always try to wrench on my own cars as much as I can and I know my limitations. Anything that is over my head I will go to a pro.
Besides, I have great people like Brad,Mike,Vadim @ Evosport and Cory @ Kleemann to bounce ideas off of.
I've been doing this build up very slowly and trying to cover all the efficiency problems first. Doing it the way I am is much more EXPENSIVE than going directly to a tuner and asking for Stage 1 or Stage 2 because you have to sometimes do things 2 or 3 times before getting it right. Not to mention all the dyno time.. At $130/hr, I've probably spent $1,500 just in dyno time.
What I will have when I have reached the end of my journey is an understanding of what can and cannot be done to these cars and what works and what doesn't. Hopefully everyone else can learn from my experiences also.
Once I have exhausted all of my ideas, if I am alot lower in power compared to where the tuners are with some other cars then I will get them to program my ECU and make other changes.
For now, I want to see what can be accomplished.
The real fun begins once I am done with ECU & pullies and I start doing the water/methanol injection testing!!
I enjoy tinkering and experimenting. It's the only way you can learn about your car. I always try to wrench on my own cars as much as I can and I know my limitations. Anything that is over my head I will go to a pro.
Besides, I have great people like Brad,Mike,Vadim @ Evosport and Cory @ Kleemann to bounce ideas off of.
I've been doing this build up very slowly and trying to cover all the efficiency problems first. Doing it the way I am is much more EXPENSIVE than going directly to a tuner and asking for Stage 1 or Stage 2 because you have to sometimes do things 2 or 3 times before getting it right. Not to mention all the dyno time.. At $130/hr, I've probably spent $1,500 just in dyno time.
What I will have when I have reached the end of my journey is an understanding of what can and cannot be done to these cars and what works and what doesn't. Hopefully everyone else can learn from my experiences also.
Once I have exhausted all of my ideas, if I am alot lower in power compared to where the tuners are with some other cars then I will get them to program my ECU and make other changes.
For now, I want to see what can be accomplished.
The real fun begins once I am done with ECU & pullies and I start doing the water/methanol injection testing!!
Well said!!!
I have neither the knowledge, nor the *****, to tinker with cars like these. They are simply way too sophisticated for my little pea brain; not like the 69 Camaro SS that I got rid of a few years ago (yes, I do kind of regret that, but there was a storage issue).
That's why I enjoy reading posts from guys like Victor. It's fantastic to be a witness to the transformations of their cars and to the thought processes that they go through in doing so. I learn a lot. And, most of the time, I actually understand the discussions because they are well written. There are certain posts (Vadim @ Evosport, Victor, Marcus, Jakpro, Derek, and others) that I always read -- they help me gain a better understanding of the car, or offer insights into doing better at the 1/4 mile. It's the best part of this forum.
Mark.
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From: S FL
a few...
lbE55: I completely agree with you. I too dont feel like tinkering with this type of complicated machine, since it is supercharged and I really dont know as much as certified mechanics so I try to stay out of it.I must say though that I do learn a lot from the posts given by Victor, Marcus and everyone else. Props to all of you for tinkering with the cars and finding the limitations with each setup, I wish I had that engine intelligence and time to experiment. Just keep em coming, and Ill keep reading.
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Originally Posted by stevebez
... making the vehicle run cooler / more efficiently with less heat soak issues.
Originally Posted by stevebez
Adding a pulley setup will perhaps offset the lower IAT's & efficiencies gained... or not ? And heat soak back to where we were before ... but overall engine will be more efficient and obviously produce more power.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,797
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
ECU has been reflashed. VMAX removed, Secondary O2 sensors programmed out, custom fuel/ignition map.
Will be doing some spirited driving today/tomorrow to let the ECU adapt. Aiming for tomorrow night to hit the dyno and see what impact it had.
Wednesday the pullies are going on. Wedn, Thurs, Friday the car will be driven to let the ECU adapt again.. Friday night we hit the rollers for the grand finale.. Hopefully it works out in my favour on the first try.. Otherwise its back to the ECU mapping and redyno...
Can't wait...
Will be doing some spirited driving today/tomorrow to let the ECU adapt. Aiming for tomorrow night to hit the dyno and see what impact it had.
Wednesday the pullies are going on. Wedn, Thurs, Friday the car will be driven to let the ECU adapt again.. Friday night we hit the rollers for the grand finale.. Hopefully it works out in my favour on the first try.. Otherwise its back to the ECU mapping and redyno...
Can't wait...
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 334
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From: So. Cal.
2004 E55 Evosport I & II; VRP H/E
Originally Posted by vrus
Friday night we hit the rollers for the grand finale..
I'm most curious to see how the water/meth injection systems works out for you.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Mia
2005 E 55
Originally Posted by vrus
ECU has been reflashed. VMAX removed, Secondary O2 sensors programmed out, custom fuel/ignition map.
Will be doing some spirited driving today/tomorrow to let the ECU adapt. Aiming for tomorrow night to hit the dyno and see what impact it had.
Wednesday the pullies are going on. Wedn, Thurs, Friday the car will be driven to let the ECU adapt again.. Friday night we hit the rollers for the grand finale.. Hopefully it works out in my favour on the first try.. Otherwise its back to the ECU mapping and redyno...
Can't wait...
Will be doing some spirited driving today/tomorrow to let the ECU adapt. Aiming for tomorrow night to hit the dyno and see what impact it had.
Wednesday the pullies are going on. Wedn, Thurs, Friday the car will be driven to let the ECU adapt again.. Friday night we hit the rollers for the grand finale.. Hopefully it works out in my favour on the first try.. Otherwise its back to the ECU mapping and redyno...
Can't wait...
Thread Starter
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by lbE55
"grand finale" . . . NO WAY -- more like an "interim" finale (oxymoron). I'm confident that there will be further mods after the pullies.
I'm most curious to see how the water/meth injection systems works out for you.
I'm most curious to see how the water/meth injection systems works out for you.
Thanks for the support and the correction!
Originally Posted by rflow306
Good luck Victor. I think you will see good results.
P.S-> Did you get a chance to do the fan setting re-programming in Star Diagnostics?? Really helps with engine coolant temps.
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From: So. Cal.
2004 E55 Evosport I & II; VRP H/E
Originally Posted by vrus
P.S-> Did you get a chance to do the fan setting re-programming in Star Diagnostics?? Really helps with engine coolant temps.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by lbE55
I did. It has seemed to lower engine coolant temps, consistently, by 10 degrees.
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From: Mia
2005 E 55
Originally Posted by vrus
LOL.. That's true! There is definitely more to come after the pulleys!!
Thanks for the support and the correction!
Thanks buddy! I am hoping so.
P.S-> Did you get a chance to do the fan setting re-programming in Star Diagnostics?? Really helps with engine coolant temps.
Thanks for the support and the correction!
Thanks buddy! I am hoping so.
P.S-> Did you get a chance to do the fan setting re-programming in Star Diagnostics?? Really helps with engine coolant temps.
Thread Starter
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Picked up the car tonight..
First thing I noticed is that the throttle response is much crisper now. Really quick responses to subtle accelerator movement. Feels more like a conventional wired accelerator pedal now.
Pulls hard but can't say for certain if it is faster or not until I've had time to drive it more. It was setup for the pullies so max performance wont arrive until after Wednesday. Didn't get to test if VMAX was disabled or not.. Need more road for that...
More updates after the install.
First thing I noticed is that the throttle response is much crisper now. Really quick responses to subtle accelerator movement. Feels more like a conventional wired accelerator pedal now.
Pulls hard but can't say for certain if it is faster or not until I've had time to drive it more. It was setup for the pullies so max performance wont arrive until after Wednesday. Didn't get to test if VMAX was disabled or not.. Need more road for that...
More updates after the install.
Thread Starter
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by rflow306
The guys at my dealer do not have a clue about which menu controls that feature on the star-diag. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Originally Posted by leepy55
good luck vrus!! this stuff's exciting. it reminds me of my earlier adventures in turbo'ing an ///M3.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Too busy today so I didn't get a chance to hit the dyno.
Tomorrow is the big day... I will be dropping the car off for the install of the pullies early tomorrow morning and SHOULD have the car back by 6pm. Looking forward to the drive home tomorrow night.
The first shot at the dyno will be Friday. I spoke with the programmer and he said this tune I am running is very conservative right now because he wants to make sure it is safe. He will do an update for me once I hit the dyno and give him the results.
Once the tune is finalized and I am happy with the setup I am going to pull the new exhaust & race cats off and put the stock one back on (but remove the primary cats) and see what the difference is. That will give us a good idea of whether or not the stock system is sufficient for even a modified car.
Should be interesting.. Stay tuned...
Tomorrow is the big day... I will be dropping the car off for the install of the pullies early tomorrow morning and SHOULD have the car back by 6pm. Looking forward to the drive home tomorrow night.
The first shot at the dyno will be Friday. I spoke with the programmer and he said this tune I am running is very conservative right now because he wants to make sure it is safe. He will do an update for me once I hit the dyno and give him the results.
Once the tune is finalized and I am happy with the setup I am going to pull the new exhaust & race cats off and put the stock one back on (but remove the primary cats) and see what the difference is. That will give us a good idea of whether or not the stock system is sufficient for even a modified car.
Should be interesting.. Stay tuned...
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 224
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From: Augusta Georgia
2005 E55
We need to hook up. You are in Savannah, I am in Augusta, Dereks always around the road courses in your home town . Let's meet up at your local drag 
strip. Chappy and the guys from Atlanta are up for it.
strip. Chappy and the guys from Atlanta are up for it.
Thread Starter
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Minor setback.. Got a call early this morning to reschedule the appointment. He was too busy to take it in today and asked me to bring it in on Friday.
So, I guess I will reschedule the dyno for Monday.
It is a local company here in Toronto going by the name of Tuning Werks. I am not sure what their rate is going to be but I heard $995USD as a number that was thrown around. I am getting a special rate because we are working together to create some custom ECU maps for different things. I dont have alot of details on his pricing structure but I can find out.
I will wait until I finish the dyno testing on the final tune that he has prepared and then the results will speak for themselves.
So, I guess I will reschedule the dyno for Monday.
vrus
Who does your ECU tunes? What do they cost initially and for each change?
Who does your ECU tunes? What do they cost initially and for each change?
I will wait until I finish the dyno testing on the final tune that he has prepared and then the results will speak for themselves.
Last edited by vrus; Nov 9, 2005 at 10:15 AM.
