E552006

Has anyone pushed one of these engines to the point of failure?
Does anyone know how many RWHP the E55 can put down with enough boost and fuel before you have to touch the internals? What is the weak link? (First thing to break)
Pistons?
Crank?
Rods?
I am assuming the transmission can handle major TQ since it is the same one used on the 65's. (Correct?)

e55 baller

weak link is cooling...you won't make any more than 500 rwhp no matter what you do unless someone figures out to unlease the real HP.

E552006

OK
great idea and I have posted ways to get around this if any tuner would be willing to do the R/D.
It's just an engine with a blower on it, there are dozens of vehicles that have been engineered to not have heat issues.
Let's ignore this for now though. I want to know the most that this engine can do.
I am sure, since you had a Supra, you remember the days of...."500 RWHP is all this engine can handle" Then it was 600..700..800+
I am wondering if anyone really knows the limit of the internals.
Thanks
Josh

JamE55

It's definitely possible to do 700hp+ with upgraded internals. I've read on Mercedes Enthusiast mag about the MKB RS that's using upgraded internal connecting rods, higher boost and bigger intercoolers etc and it was pushing about or around 680HP. So it's definitely doable. Not sure what the "limit" is though for the engine.

E552006

I don't know that the tuners aren't just putting internals in the engine so they can charge their customers for the upgrades.
I was reading the latests MB mag and the tuner was saying that they didn't think the engine could flow enough air so their solution was to upgrade the rods?? WTF

ProjectC55

It's got to be more than 500rwhp. Especially if the internals are upgraded.617 crank for the SLR.Put some nice pistons in her,raise the boost and I bet she'll handle at least 7-800 to the wheels.I definitely optomistic about it.

e55 baller

I would agree that it would be in the 700rwhp range for the engine...some stock short block Supras have run 900rwhp. I doubt anyone will ever risk testing it without upgrading internals....pop at Supra short block $4500, RX7 $3000, E55 $35,000.

I would like to see some more R/D on a serious intercooler in conjunction with a larger front facia. I know the car is good for another 40rwhp with a big fat Supra style FMIC.

E552006

Absolutely Agreed
Someone PLEASE for the LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY do a FMIC or TMIC for these cars :v
But..
Anyone know the answer to this question

e55 baller

Pic of my S4 with huge Supra size FMIC....the FMIC actually was two cores fused together, it is as tall as the bumber and only half of it is exposed....peeps said it couldn't be done...i could try to get in touch with the folks that did this one but it has been 2 years.

It was sold here:

http://www.duhengineering.com/fmic/rs4_09.html

I waited 12 months and once it was on I held side by side against my stock e55 all the way to 100mph (crushed it to 40mph with a 1.69 60-foot).

E552006

Very nice
Just remember, a FMIC with longer tubing is not nearly as optimal for a SC vs Turbo.
We need to come up with a solution that involves as little piping as possible but gets optimal air flow at the same time. It can be done

rflow306

I don't think our blowers flow enough cfm to take advantage of a front mount IC.
From what Victor has posted his IAT temps are only 15 degrees above ambient with the evo kit which is excellent. Improving the stock set-up is the way to go IMO.

Marcus Frost

Asked like a true Supra owner (or former Supra owner).

I honestly think we'll be passing our transmission's capacity before we push the motor too far. Keeping IATs in check, and knock to a minimum I really am hopeful for these engines, but I question the drivetrain. Lots of weight + lots of troque is murder on a drivetrain.

-m

Marcus Frost

That is a badass B5 S4!!! Wow!

I've been without a car to bang gears in for too long, I've actually been looking at picking up one just "for the hell of it" - I looked at the B6s and even the new B7s but those V8s just kind of leaving me with a "meh" feeling. The B5s are still very good bargains but they are not easy to find in good shape with low miles.

How do you like yours?

-m

Marcus Frost

rflow,

We aren't running enough boost to say out cooling system is "good enough". Vadim says IATs are good at stock boost and even a few psi over, but what about 20psi+. That's REALLY the reason I want to see better cooling upgrades, to run some more damn boost!!!

-m

Marcus Frost

You are completely right. Look for our previous discussion, it is NOT that difficult on these cars - not even close with the INSANE piping setups I have seen, to move the IC on our cars is cake in comparison. Vadim was working on a system for his C32, I'm keeping my eye on him.

-m

Grumpy666

Speaking of due diligence:

Adding a FMIC is going to cause a larger pressure drop before the compressed air gets to the heads than the current setup. Therefore, the S/C will need to be spun faster to compensate. Since the compressor pulley is pretty much fixed (due to the clutch assembly), the crank pulley needs to grow. The existing pulley upgrades might get you back to stock boost levels (my guess - probably not). Is there a limit on how big the crank pulley can get? If it won't get you there, then you'll have to design a smaller compressor pulley - and that will get real pricey real fast.

Before you go much farther, someone should probably investigate this issue.

WayneE

Where do you live? I saw an S4 with that same bumper and a huge FMIC today in Frederick.

e55 baller

Marcus,

Thanks...the more I think the more I KICK myself in the head for selling my B5 S4...it looked awesome and was fast as heck. If I went with the GAIC-X s/w on race gas with K04s I could be getting what others are = 11.25@125 with no NOS.

The S4 setup I had handled MUCH better and was just as fast as my E55 when stock. I even raced another E55 and beat it from 55 to 120. I also lost only by 2 cars to my neighbors X50 911TT.

I wonder how much of a pressure drop a FMIC would result in. Is the issue with the current air to water IC a result of the location, size, fin design, all of the above?

e55 baller

I sold the car 16 months ago to some that bought it in VA and then moved to CO. I had the car in Northern VA...maybe he is back from CO. He had an B6 S4 but traded down to this one for more power. I also got this car down from 3550 lbs to 3375 with a nice diet so it was quick. I am still pissed I sold it but got 30K for it.

rflow306

Marcus for high boost levels on the street a front mount is definitely the way to go. But this will also require a bigger blower to flow the kind of volume we need to overcome the piping and the pressure drop across the core. Then it turns into a huge expensive project.

rflow306

Grumpy
Even if we could do a huge crank pulley the problem would then become blower breakage due to over spinning. I don't see our blowers surviving or let alone making 20 pounds of boost thru the stock inter-cooler. It gets even harder with a front mount.

e55 baller

does anyone know how much boost Cobra's run stock and modified (max)?

When I went to the stip 2 years ago one was putting down 460rwhp and ran 11.8@118 and many more are running low 11s and high 10s. How much boost are they running. Do they have similar cooling problems?

E552006

Good question.
Anyone here familiar with the Cobra blower?

I believe that if you get the heat sink caused by the location of the factory IC setup removed from the emediate area of the engine, it will help to cool the entire compartment.
What the stock setup does is cause further heating of the engine compartment due to recirculation of HOT engine coolant through the IC.
You are heating and cooling the same liquid twice causing more heat to be released in a small area.
An Air-air cooler would not cause this and should remove some under hood heating.

medici78

Marcus, I've noticed you are concerned with the transmission's power handling. However, I've read that this is the same unit that is used in the V12 M-B's, which have mountains of torque and there's several Renntech cars that are holding up, as well as the 996TT Tiptronic. The Porsche tuners I've called agree that the tranny can hold up to a lot of abuse as they have thrown more and more power at it, and it still holds up.

Marcus Frost

Our blower is used on the 32K cars and makes a lot more than 12psi, I realize there are CFM differences but I also think you sell our blower short my friend. I've read a few articles about them (if you search my posts, you'll find them) and I really don't think we'll out grow this blower as quickly as you think we will.