8 cent lowering solution: Has anyone done a write-up?
01-22-2006, 12:34 AM
#51
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Wow - this seems to be a fairly polarized topic. I haven't seen a good explanation of how the system works, so it's hard to formulate an opinion. But, I seldom ever let that stop me. Here's my take:
I've seen a couple of referrences to a voltage level, but no clear definition of what this means. I suspect it's the sensor feedback to the ECU to stop adjusting Airmatic. If this is the case, then the air pressure to the shocks will be adjusted until the repositioned sensor is found. This is a pneumatic system, so there's probably a tranducer to measure the shock air pressure, which is fed back to the ECU. Since the sensor has been moved, this pressure will be different than the factory setting for correct ride height. Is this the MB spec that is referenced in this thread?
If this scenario is accurate, then moving the sensor or using Star are both doing the same thing - they are causing the shock pressure to change to find the sensor. With the washer method, air pressure is the only parameter that is changed. With the Star method, the sensor voltage level is changed, which causes the shock to be adjusted to a different position. Then the required air pressure level is re-progammed so that no errors are seen.
If this is the case, then I see no difference (except the possibility of an error code being set for the washer method if required air pressure changes too much). Both methods adjust the shock air pressure to different level - it's the only way ride height can be changed. One method keeps the ECU from complaining, the other doesn't. Anyway, that's my take - I could be wrong.
I've seen a couple of referrences to a voltage level, but no clear definition of what this means. I suspect it's the sensor feedback to the ECU to stop adjusting Airmatic. If this is the case, then the air pressure to the shocks will be adjusted until the repositioned sensor is found. This is a pneumatic system, so there's probably a tranducer to measure the shock air pressure, which is fed back to the ECU. Since the sensor has been moved, this pressure will be different than the factory setting for correct ride height. Is this the MB spec that is referenced in this thread?
If this scenario is accurate, then moving the sensor or using Star are both doing the same thing - they are causing the shock pressure to change to find the sensor. With the washer method, air pressure is the only parameter that is changed. With the Star method, the sensor voltage level is changed, which causes the shock to be adjusted to a different position. Then the required air pressure level is re-progammed so that no errors are seen.
If this is the case, then I see no difference (except the possibility of an error code being set for the washer method if required air pressure changes too much). Both methods adjust the shock air pressure to different level - it's the only way ride height can be changed. One method keeps the ECU from complaining, the other doesn't. Anyway, that's my take - I could be wrong.
01-22-2006, 12:40 AM
#52
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That is about what I am getting, too. But that is just the theory side.
The more important thing to me is OUR ability to change it when we want to (like going in for service, etc.) If we use the computer, I am afraid I will be at the mercy of MBUSA. The washers are in my control. That's the only gating factor for now. Either way, I will need some reassurance that MBUSA won't shaft my warranty. I don't mind having related items (like a $1K shock) getting kicked out of warranty, but it is not fair (which is what MBUSA in SoCal likes). Any excuse can can be enough to get black balled by the Ding miester.
The more important thing to me is OUR ability to change it when we want to (like going in for service, etc.) If we use the computer, I am afraid I will be at the mercy of MBUSA. The washers are in my control. That's the only gating factor for now. Either way, I will need some reassurance that MBUSA won't shaft my warranty. I don't mind having related items (like a $1K shock) getting kicked out of warranty, but it is not fair (which is what MBUSA in SoCal likes). Any excuse can can be enough to get black balled by the Ding miester.
01-22-2006, 01:28 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by Loren
I'd definitely go for reprogramming if I could adjust on the fly. But since we can't even play frickin' DVDs on our US spec commands, I'm guessing you're just trying to light the fire more.
For those of you tossing out the "don't be so cheap" do it right crap, listen up: REPROGRAMMING your system is more invasive than 4 little washers will ever be. In addition, it is completely reversible in a couple minutes. No, the nut isn't coming off.... that's why we use 4 or so washers... so we have space to PUT the nut ON when we're done. Otherwise some moron would tell you to use 10, and you in your brilliance would suddenly notice there's no chance in hell that nut is going on. We're not idiots. We know the difference between a nut actually being screwed on sufficiently or not. Add some light locktite as I did, and its now the safest nut in the car. Might I also help those out who are unfamiliar with the concept of a washer: We often use them in an attempt to KEEP nuts from coming undone. Good lord.
And its not about cost. I went full K2 with diff and spared no expense. Just shipping to Cory directly instead of letting a local dealer handle the install is an indication of how important the money aspect is for most of us washer ******: It's not.
What is relevant is what is logical. The programming method tells the car to keep adjusting to a different figure the sensor puts out. The washer method moves the sensor so it puts out a different figure and the car keeps adjusting until normal.
You guys can hash it out all you like, but in the end it is the same. As far as calibration, calibrate this: My car handles a lot better now. Our cars weren't slot cars to begin with, so if calibration is so important, how do you explain the washer theory making them handle better, with all of that out of calibration business going on? And, just for the sake of argument, driving your car up a slight HILL creates more calibration problems and physical adversity on your driving dynamics than any small lowering of your car via these washers. You do drive up inclines, right? I'll take my coffee uncalibrated with washers, thanks.
Lastly, there are no error codes unless you used a donut instead of 5mm of washers. By mechanically repositioning the sensors slightly, you're INSURING there are no error codes because the sensor is reporting LEVEL… that’s when it stops lowering the car, when it thinks it is now level, good, perfect, within spec, normal, wonderful, bien, bueno.
Its not sitting there reporting "washer detected. I'm level, but I detect something else has made me level. I ignore potholes and speed bumps, but I am washer aware. It must be those damn washers. So, I'm fine, but I'll report a code, because, well, I'm level". Hahaha. It simply doesn't work that way. To the computer, it is CORRECT.
God, you guys... I bet you naysayers have a terrible time figuring out how that floating level thingy in your toilet works and magically makes the water stop filling up. Here’s a tip: If you want more water per flush, bend the floating arm UP towards the ceiling just a tad. This will cause the float to require more water to bring it to a height that then causes the arm to turn off the valve… thus, more water. We're here to help.
The now infamous washer theory is the same thing.
Damn, glad I type 100wpm… do I get 5 post credits for this one?
Loren
For those of you tossing out the "don't be so cheap" do it right crap, listen up: REPROGRAMMING your system is more invasive than 4 little washers will ever be. In addition, it is completely reversible in a couple minutes. No, the nut isn't coming off.... that's why we use 4 or so washers... so we have space to PUT the nut ON when we're done. Otherwise some moron would tell you to use 10, and you in your brilliance would suddenly notice there's no chance in hell that nut is going on. We're not idiots. We know the difference between a nut actually being screwed on sufficiently or not. Add some light locktite as I did, and its now the safest nut in the car. Might I also help those out who are unfamiliar with the concept of a washer: We often use them in an attempt to KEEP nuts from coming undone. Good lord.
And its not about cost. I went full K2 with diff and spared no expense. Just shipping to Cory directly instead of letting a local dealer handle the install is an indication of how important the money aspect is for most of us washer ******: It's not.
What is relevant is what is logical. The programming method tells the car to keep adjusting to a different figure the sensor puts out. The washer method moves the sensor so it puts out a different figure and the car keeps adjusting until normal.
You guys can hash it out all you like, but in the end it is the same. As far as calibration, calibrate this: My car handles a lot better now. Our cars weren't slot cars to begin with, so if calibration is so important, how do you explain the washer theory making them handle better, with all of that out of calibration business going on? And, just for the sake of argument, driving your car up a slight HILL creates more calibration problems and physical adversity on your driving dynamics than any small lowering of your car via these washers. You do drive up inclines, right? I'll take my coffee uncalibrated with washers, thanks.
Lastly, there are no error codes unless you used a donut instead of 5mm of washers. By mechanically repositioning the sensors slightly, you're INSURING there are no error codes because the sensor is reporting LEVEL… that’s when it stops lowering the car, when it thinks it is now level, good, perfect, within spec, normal, wonderful, bien, bueno.
Its not sitting there reporting "washer detected. I'm level, but I detect something else has made me level. I ignore potholes and speed bumps, but I am washer aware. It must be those damn washers. So, I'm fine, but I'll report a code, because, well, I'm level". Hahaha. It simply doesn't work that way. To the computer, it is CORRECT.
God, you guys... I bet you naysayers have a terrible time figuring out how that floating level thingy in your toilet works and magically makes the water stop filling up. Here’s a tip: If you want more water per flush, bend the floating arm UP towards the ceiling just a tad. This will cause the float to require more water to bring it to a height that then causes the arm to turn off the valve… thus, more water. We're here to help.
The now infamous washer theory is the same thing.
Damn, glad I type 100wpm… do I get 5 post credits for this one?
Loren
Loren,
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
01-22-2006, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackBear
Loren,
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
You dont have to remove the wheel but it helps to jack up the car so the gap between the fender and the wheel is large enough for you to stick both hands in. You will need a small socket/ratchet to remove the nut that hold the sensor arms in place and maybe a torch. Drop it down, add no more than 4-5mm of small (stainless steel) washers to the bolt. Push the bolt back up throgh the hole, locktight the thread and put the top nut back on. Do the other side. Done. :p
01-22-2006, 02:47 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by BlackBear
Loren,
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
I have half a mind to go and make a video of the whole process... at least in the front where its easier. Once you've done it, you're talking about less than a minute outside of jacking up the car a little bit (no taking the tire off). Short video, many ewwws and ahhhs from those who fear the washer and come to see its nickle colored brilliance upon viewing it actually installed.
Loren
01-22-2006, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by benzmodz
Maybe you should stop using Pilot-II and go back to Falkens.
You have two points of view only: yours and the one you agree with.
PS. I will only ever put the Falkens on the E55 the day before I sell it to you...
01-22-2006, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Loren
,God, you guys... I bet you naysayers have a terrible time figuring out how that floating level thingy in your toilet works and magically makes the water stop filling up. Here’s a tip: If you want more water per flush, bend the floating arm UP towards the ceiling just a tad. This will cause the float to require more water to bring it to a height that then causes the arm to turn off the valve… thus, more water. We're here to help.
BTW, have you had a call yet from the Water Company, they've detected an ERROR message after your last No.2....
01-22-2006, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackBear
Loren,
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
You de man!
Do you have pictures of what you did? I can't find the sensors. Someone said the front wheels don't need to come off to do the work. Is that true? I'll take a front wheel off on Sunday to get a better view.
Thank you,
Oliver
01-22-2006, 06:25 AM
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2003 E55
Originally Posted by benzmodz
I will be back up in Brisbane in a couple of weeks to meet with the "BURNT" CLK55 to add an option. We should all get together and meet up since I already have the start of a beer club. Robert is quite the authority on world class mods at great prices you will be amazed at his knowledge base.
Do I take from this that you actually have access to Stardiagnostics and that you do this and other mods?
01-22-2006, 07:36 AM
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W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by OzE55
I'd be interested in talking to him - whats his credentials?
Who does he work for?
Who does he work for?
I have to agree with the heat shield on the air intakes. It is one of the best ideas I have seen in a long time. The unshielded plastic air intakes have a serious heat soak problem which is not seen on the shielded mod version.
I suppose his credential is that he got the job done and has very nice power gains on a dyno.
01-22-2006, 07:41 AM
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W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by Rafal
My sarcasm, like everyone else's logic is lost on you.
You have two points of view only: yours and the one you agree with.
PS. I will only ever put the Falkens on the E55 the day before I sell it to you...
You have two points of view only: yours and the one you agree with.
PS. I will only ever put the Falkens on the E55 the day before I sell it to you...
Plus I want those washers taken off the E55 because its dead weight to me. I can get it done in software and have my coffee without getting my hands dirty.
01-22-2006, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by benzmodz
Ha .... I would have at least thought you would be flattered by the fact I still know you as the Tyre Rack guy in Sydney. At least my memory isnt shot regardless of my vanity.
Plus I want those washers taken off the E55 because its dead weight to me. I can get it done in software and have my coffee without getting my hands dirty.
Plus I want those washers taken off the E55 because its dead weight to me. I can get it done in software and have my coffee without getting my hands dirty.
If I remove the washers but sell you the car shod with the Falkens, then it will really be "DEAD WEIGHT' around the first corner!
01-22-2006, 09:45 AM
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2004 E55 AMG
MB in melbourne is like... poo
"Is there anyway the dealer can lower.."(service manager cuts in)BLA BLA BLA BLA SAY ANOTHER WORD AND IL VOID YOUR WARRENTY NOW GET GOING I WONT WASH YOUR CAR!
"Is there anyway the dealer can lower.."(service manager cuts in)BLA BLA BLA BLA SAY ANOTHER WORD AND IL VOID YOUR WARRENTY NOW GET GOING I WONT WASH YOUR CAR!
01-22-2006, 04:04 PM
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W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by chem0
MB in melbourne is like... poo
"Is there anyway the dealer can lower.."(service manager cuts in)BLA BLA BLA BLA SAY ANOTHER WORD AND IL VOID YOUR WARRENTY NOW GET GOING I WONT WASH YOUR CAR!
"Is there anyway the dealer can lower.."(service manager cuts in)BLA BLA BLA BLA SAY ANOTHER WORD AND IL VOID YOUR WARRENTY NOW GET GOING I WONT WASH YOUR CAR!
01-22-2006, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by benzmodz
There are times I wish I had those round stickers like the ones they use on crash test dummies. Slap one on his forehead and tell him that if he doesnt like his job there is a swedish company that would like to give him a test driver position.
... and pack 4.1kg of marijuana in his bags
