Bones

According to the February issue of UK CAR, the E63 & CLK 63 will debut at the Geneva Auto Show. First time hearing this info. Hope it is accurate, only a month away.

Cheers,

jangy

When does the MB5, ummm i meant E63 coming to the U.S.??

BoBcanada

cant freaking wait too see the pics and the test data for the new beasts!

chem0

exterior changes would just be the front apron right?

... and badge

ClayJ

I expect front-end redesign a little bit more extensive than that: grill, hood, front of fenders at and above the headlights -- maybe even a slightly different look to the headlights.....
And I sure as heck hope that they don't S-Class the tailights - but i do expect them to do some little thing(s) to the tail-end too as part of the "refreshening"......

jamusa

The e63 seems like its gonna be all that and more,by all the talk i have been hearing.Is it gonna be supercharged or turboed?

jangy

jamusa: all what and more? I don't think it is SC or Turbo. I'm pretty sure it is gonna be just another AMG for now. I am curious to see what aesthetic mods they do to it and if any of it can be retrofitted to our body (in case we like them). I am curious to see the rims, as I am tiring of the stock ones and don't like any other than the HREs.

merc655

im lookin forward to seeing what they do with the new E AMG. From what everyone is saying, it will have the same 6.2 liter engine with 510hp and 475lb/ft of torque, give or take on the torque... NA, no turbo or huffer on it.

stevebez

I am going to the show ... will take pics of all. Its early March so its a bit of a wait but will report back asap.

Rgds Steve.

jamusa

If it is only going to make 510/475 (n/a) in power,we might be better off by sticking with the
blown e55 we have,b/c its easier to get more power from a blower equipt car than a n/a car.Also blower equipt car motors can usually withstand more modding than n/a cars .
Right now with only pully,cams,headers,t/b and ecu upgrade,we see in excess of 600hp.Do you think with the same mods you will see the same results?Definately not.MB will have to come a little better to be a champion in the arena.Remember that 500+ hp is where every one is at now,so putting up 510hp in a heavy car is not saying mutch.As to handeling thats another story.MB has proven that they can match match or surpass BMW in the n/a hp war,now lets see what they can do about going around corners.To me,i am not impressed with 510 hp,because thats basically what everyone is putting out,and they are just making their new appearance........maybe if they made north of 550hp i would be impressed.
Now here we go.........before we get into a pissing match,think about it some.
One thing we know for sure,without even seeing it we know its gonna look good.

jangy

No pissing match from me, based on your reply. What had you heard it was gonna be? We've known this for quite some time. MB hasn't exactly hidden it. Hell, I'm pissed they didn't put the V12 TT into it.

brt3

Has anyone heard ANYTHING regarding a potential release date for the E63 wagon in the USA? I'm assuming, now that BMW has announced the release of the M5 wagon in the States, that Mercedes will likely continue with their Blitzenwagen. Is it likely that the wagon will be available at the same release date as the sedan, or will it come along at a later date?

jamusa

I have not heard anything concerning the release of the wagon if there is gonna be one,but if there is gonna be one,its safe to say that it should be out a year or so later.
I am happy to see that you guys can see what i am talking about the hp.....They need to have every one running for cover when the e63 comes out,just like they did with the 03 e/55..........Right now MB/E55 is playing tit for tat with BMW M5.BMW has thrown down the gauntlet,now its MB time to pick it up and surpass BMW,this should not be too hard,b/c they are the last one coming into the arena........and for christ sake do something about the handeling.BMW is running shods over us ,when we match apples to apples.We know that MB is capable of doing it. When they released the 03/e55 BMW went back to the drawing board.......now its MB time to go to the drawing board.Whatever they do,do not release that week kneed 510/475 hp.
Do what they do best,and put a blower on it,that would chase all the dogs out the yard.Even king Corvette with its mega hp,torque,and light weight.

ClayJ

There are inherant problems with the understood forces of physics in the handling qualities or shortfalls with a heavy car - as well as with a heavy, big-motored front-end. I think that MBZ has done just about everything that they can do with that.

I do see that they now have a new 4-link front end - perhaps they can fit this into other models, like the E55, and that this will help. Perhaps they can redesign/re-engineer mounting points and control arms and other suspension and steering geometry. Perhaps they will or can refine or re-engineer such things as springing, shock-valving, and Airmatic and ABC....

Point is - BMW gains its handling advantage in part from a more favorable weight balance to the car - less weight in the nose of the car. This is in part from using what I believe to be a lighter, smaller engine up front. It is definately gained from using an all-aluminum, or a mostly-aluminum front end.

I would rather have the strength and safety of a MBZ, and 95% handling, than any lesser amount of safety and strength and 98% handling. It is a passenger car -- not a sports car. Safety of the occupants must be job #1. IMO

Jakpro1

I hear she gets the CLS handling an HP is bumped to 515 with a few extra torque.

That should be enough to give it a minute' advantage over the M5, but it sure ain't gonna be like the ole days.

I think she'll fast, but just like the M5 fast and not "completely ahead of all others" fast.

Guess competition just caught up.....what can we do..........til the turbo 8 comes out. Like I have said, "Party up M5 guys, these are your glory days. What you've waited years for. When the turbo 8 comes out, it's bye bye time again" and this time we'll have CLS handling.

jamusa

I am afraid i do not totally agree with you ,i believe that you can have both safety and performance in a sedan.......BMW has been showing us this for years.I am not saying to cut back on safety,i am saying step up on performance.

BoBcanada

also guys did you know ( i had an article about it cant find it now) that if BMW 5 series will collide in front end accident 50 mph and above it is not repairable, due to it aluminium front end, which is why it is balanced so well.

I'll try to find an article.

enzom

If I hit anything at 50 mph, I won't give a hoot about the car.

merc655

I think that it has a little bit more to do with what they are trying to do with the marketing of the car in general. Since BMW has been walking all over MB for years with their handling characteristics and overall "performance" of their cars, I dont think its quite fair to simply say to MB "step it up already". I mean MB is doing a great job with what they have, they put awesome engine, brakes and damn good suspension, but not perfect suspension in their cars, and voila! we have cars that can keep up with just about everything else.
I mean think about it, we have a car that had BMW running with its tail in between its legs for about 2.5+ years, with however you want to look at it. I think that says a lot and of course BMW will up the ante with the new M5, I would hope so! But guess what, AMGs are more towards the point and shoot category, although not totally that, and thats whats so cool about them. They can offer 95% of the handling and 100% of the speed basically.
With the new 6.2 NA engine, I think they are doing this just because they can and to prove that they don't have to strap a blower on their engines to perform. I mean, this engine is a ground up project for AMG and that says a lot, especially when you considering the aspects of it. 6.2L, 510hp and 470lbft of torque with a 7k redline?! I think thats pretty cool, all they have to do is strap another blower or TT to it and they are at the top again.
So, maybe its a sense of social responsibility that AMG is taking with not immediately strapping some FI parts onto their brand new, flagship engine, or maybe they just want to tease everyone. Who knows. But I do know this, AMG offers some of the greatest performance in cars than anything I have ever seen. I praise them for doing what they do and even though we can't beat BMW in the handling department, we sure as hell keep up pretty well with what they do.

Just my .02

jangy

CLS handling? What of the CLS will the E get that they didn't get? What year is your E? Maybe you are talking about the steering rack? If so, that is already in the E as of '05.

BMWs have always handled better. I have to agree with Clay on this one. There is always compromise when you do anything. Always. BMW has always used weight distribution / small engines to maximize handling. Truth be told, safety would have a larger engine with the weight in the direction that momentum faces (front). BMWs have always been the faster track cars, with the power at high end and no concern for torque. Mercs have always had more "grunt" and luxury. Just how the game is played. I've been to both sides.

Also, to whoever said it is BMW's turn. Ummm, no. They are similar and each has its strengths. I would love to own one of each. But, I would still get an E55 if i were buying another DD today. If I wanted a sports car, I'd get the 911 or Vette. Why compromise with the BMW?