IC Pump? Does it really make a difference?
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SL55AMG, ML420CDI, E320TCDI
Originally Posted by vrus
Oh yeah.. There's progress alright... 
I've been trying to buy a set of head castings.. I called up my parts guy and inquired about a set of stock AMG head castings for the W211... The quote... $4,100 PER SIDE!! Now keep in mind these are BARE heads. I don't feel too enthusiastic about plopping down $8,200 for a set of heads to experiment with so now I am looking for a used set. Know anyone that can locate a set for me?
I've got a guy locally here that builds race motors that will create a CNC program to port the heads. The first experiment is to open up the exhaust ports, enlarge the header openings and see what she does on the dyno.
I've been trying to buy a set of head castings.. I called up my parts guy and inquired about a set of stock AMG head castings for the W211... The quote... $4,100 PER SIDE!! Now keep in mind these are BARE heads. I don't feel too enthusiastic about plopping down $8,200 for a set of heads to experiment with so now I am looking for a used set. Know anyone that can locate a set for me?
I've got a guy locally here that builds race motors that will create a CNC program to port the heads. The first experiment is to open up the exhaust ports, enlarge the header openings and see what she does on the dyno.
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SL55AMG, ML420CDI, E320TCDI
Originally Posted by Dogshine
SL - not withstanding your car being one of the earlier ones, you state 'break-in is an issue'. How did you break it in???? : )
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Joined: Aug 2004
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From: SoCal
04 E55
Originally Posted by vrus
Know anyone that can locate a set for me?
www.mbpartsonline.com
I know they have (had) a complete Kompressor motor for a while and they always have all kinds of other stuff. Might be worth a call or e-mail just to see if they have, or can locate, even one head for bench testing.
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From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
vrus ... been thinking about the porting of the exhaust. Would you not require a different cam profile to make the most of this ?
I would expect you would drop a little compression with ported exhaust with standard cams ... similar to adding headers without a remap - its sometimes reported that there is a slight drop in boost and a disappointing power gain (without remap) when adding headers.
I think the porting would result in the same scenario - mbe a cam with same lift as stock but with shorter duration would allow more efficient breathing but retain compression when needed....
Or am I talking rubbish ?
Rgds Steve.
I would expect you would drop a little compression with ported exhaust with standard cams ... similar to adding headers without a remap - its sometimes reported that there is a slight drop in boost and a disappointing power gain (without remap) when adding headers.
I think the porting would result in the same scenario - mbe a cam with same lift as stock but with shorter duration would allow more efficient breathing but retain compression when needed....
Or am I talking rubbish ?
Rgds Steve.
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From: SoCal
04 E55
The only time you'll need to worry about compression changing is if/when you modify the combustion chamber itself. The intake/exhaust ports can be modified w/o affecting compression. A reworked port will only show an improvement to the point that it increases flow (given a certain lift) without significantly reducing velocity. This is less of a concern on forced induction motors than on NA, but still something to watch out for. I believe a conservative reworking of both the intake and exhaust runners could yield decent gains on stock camshafts. Without testing a set of heads on a flow bench at different lifts and with different port configurations (porting, etc.) there's no telling how they can or will react to different cam profiles.
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SL55AMG, ML420CDI, E320TCDI
Originally Posted by GTA23109a
The only time you'll need to worry about compression changing is if/when you modify the combustion chamber itself. The intake/exhaust ports can be modified w/o affecting compression. A reworked port will only show an improvement to the point that it increases flow (given a certain lift) without significantly reducing velocity. This is less of a concern on forced induction motors than on NA, but still something to watch out for. I believe a conservative reworking of both the intake and exhaust runners could yield decent gains on stock camshafts. Without testing a set of heads on a flow bench at different lifts and with different port configurations (porting, etc.) there's no telling how they can or will react to different cam profiles.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
Thanks for the tip! I'll check them out.
Definitely, a hotter cam will make the most difference, but, to start, opening up the exhaust port will increase flow. I dont remember the exact numbers but I know someone flow tested the stock head and the exhaust flow rate was very low.
Like someone else said, if you dont change the combustion chamber size, compression shouldn't be an issue.
Originally Posted by GTA23109a
Have you tried Potomac German Auto??
www.mbpartsonline.com
I know they have (had) a complete Kompressor motor for a while and they always have all kinds of other stuff. Might be worth a call or e-mail just to see if they have, or can locate, even one head for bench testing.
www.mbpartsonline.com
I know they have (had) a complete Kompressor motor for a while and they always have all kinds of other stuff. Might be worth a call or e-mail just to see if they have, or can locate, even one head for bench testing.
Like someone else said, if you dont change the combustion chamber size, compression shouldn't be an issue.
Originally Posted by stevebez
vrus ... been thinking about the porting of the exhaust. Would you not require a different cam profile to make the most of this ?
I would expect you would drop a little compression with ported exhaust with standard cams ... similar to adding headers without a remap - its sometimes reported that there is a slight drop in boost and a disappointing power gain (without remap) when adding headers.
I think the porting would result in the same scenario - mbe a cam with same lift as stock but with shorter duration would allow more efficient breathing but retain compression when needed....
Or am I talking rubbish ?
Rgds Steve.
I would expect you would drop a little compression with ported exhaust with standard cams ... similar to adding headers without a remap - its sometimes reported that there is a slight drop in boost and a disappointing power gain (without remap) when adding headers.
I think the porting would result in the same scenario - mbe a cam with same lift as stock but with shorter duration would allow more efficient breathing but retain compression when needed....
Or am I talking rubbish ?
Rgds Steve.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 287
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From: SoCal
04 E55
Originally Posted by SLcharger
By only polishing the intake manifold, intake and exhaust port, valves etc. and not changing the cam, you will to my experience gain in the region of 5-7% Hp. and Torque.
Originally Posted by vrus
Definitely, a hotter cam will make the most difference . . .
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
2003 E55 AMG
I've got the connections to order the SLR Cams.. I just need to confirm if they will work.. If they do I will order a set and we can see if they can be used to make new grinds from a billet blank.
Originally Posted by GTA23109a
I asked the shop that did the renntech mods on my car to see if they can get any more info on the SLR cam swap issue you mentioned previously. Seems like that might have some possibilities. Also, if someone can come up with the cam profile they think will work, we can see if someone will re-grind a set of stock cams. It just occured to me, however, that I don't have any idea how the cam sits in our motors. Is there any kind of valve lash adjustability for a smaller base-circle regrind???
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 287
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From: SoCal
04 E55
Originally Posted by vrus
I've got the connections to order the SLR Cams.. I just need to confirm if they will work.. If they do I will order a set and we can see if they can be used to make new grinds from a billet blank.
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SL55AMG, ML420CDI, E320TCDI
Originally Posted by GTA23109a
Interesting info. Is that based on a NA motor or forced induction? I'd imagine it'd be different for both, but not sure by how much.
That is for N/A engine, but since the ports normally are smaller on a N/A engine this would as well apply to S/C, T/C, engine. It is about reducing the drag in the ports, so velocety increases, but not too overdue the job, soo that velocety decreases, due to missunderstod overdue porting ( opening up ports ).
Lets take an example, what impact velocety has on power. If you for instance fit 2" headers on the 55K engine, you will gain some exstra horsepower. If you instead fit 1 3/4" headers, you will gain a 10 Hp. exstra. Smaller pipes means bigger velocity, means better scavening of chambers, means more Hp., but pipes are still big enough too reduce drag at the same time.
I asked the shop that did the renntech mods on my car to see if they can get any more info on the SLR cam swap issue you mentioned previously. Seems like that might have some possibilities. Also, if someone can come up with the cam profile they think will work, we can see if someone will re-grind a set of stock cams. It just occured to me, however, that I don't have any idea how the cam sits in our motors. Is there any kind of valve lash adjustability for a smaller base-circle regrind???
That is for N/A engine, but since the ports normally are smaller on a N/A engine this would as well apply to S/C, T/C, engine. It is about reducing the drag in the ports, so velocety increases, but not too overdue the job, soo that velocety decreases, due to missunderstod overdue porting ( opening up ports ).
Lets take an example, what impact velocety has on power. If you for instance fit 2" headers on the 55K engine, you will gain some exstra horsepower. If you instead fit 1 3/4" headers, you will gain a 10 Hp. exstra. Smaller pipes means bigger velocity, means better scavening of chambers, means more Hp., but pipes are still big enough too reduce drag at the same time.
I asked the shop that did the renntech mods on my car to see if they can get any more info on the SLR cam swap issue you mentioned previously. Seems like that might have some possibilities. Also, if someone can come up with the cam profile they think will work, we can see if someone will re-grind a set of stock cams. It just occured to me, however, that I don't have any idea how the cam sits in our motors. Is there any kind of valve lash adjustability for a smaller base-circle regrind???
Last edited by SLcharger; Apr 22, 2006 at 01:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by GTA23109a
Awesome! I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I hear something on the fittment issue. Also, there are a couple of custom camshaft manufacturers here in Southern CA that do regrinds as well as billet blanks. If/when we get to that point, it should be just a matter of figuring out what lobe profiles we want. Having some solid flow #s on the heads (good OR bad) will be a big help in cam profile selection.
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From: SoCal
04 E55
I've never seen one of the cores, so that may be an issue. If we can get our hands on a cam we can most likely have a new one copied out of a solid billet, but that'll certainly increase the cost. As far as the valve lash issue, I asked that same question earlier. I have no clue if it will tolerate a smaller base circle.
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Originally Posted by GTA23109a
If we can get our hands on a cam we can most likely have a new one copied out of a solid billet, but that'll certainly increase the cost.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 287
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From: SoCal
04 E55
I agree. I think our best bet is to educate ourselves as much as possible on what we have instead of leaving it to others to sort out. Most shops/tuners won't be willing to take the time to truly engineer something like this for us. We're going to have to know exactly what we want and how we want it before approaching anyone I think.
