E55 vs. M5...cont.
05-08-2006, 02:00 PM
#1
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E55 vs. M5...cont.
I started a thread/discussion on the M5 baord, and got this interesting analysis/response:
"In terms of straight line performance, the E55 is only better in the first hundred feet or so. After that, there is a slight edge to the M5 up to 100 mph, after which the M5 pretty much walks away. I'm saying this based on test results, and numerous reports of side-by-side races. The torque of the E55 gives you a much better launch than the M5, and results in a couple carlength lead at a stoplight. This is because the M5 doesn't have Launch Control here in the US, and once the wheels 'hook up', the engine takes a while to get to it's torque peak. The E55 is right there at torque peak as soon as you hit the gas from a start.
Once the cars are rolling, it's a different story. If you're in an E55, I wouldn't mess with an M5 from a roll, especially on the highway. The M5 is quicker 60-85 if you're in the right gear. The torque of the engine is actually meaningless once a car is rolling - it's wheel horsepower vs weight that gives you acelleration. That's because the torque that matters is torque applied to the rear wheels, and that is a function of engine torque multiplied by engine rpm. The M5 actually has more torque applied to the rear wheels at speed than the E55."
"In terms of straight line performance, the E55 is only better in the first hundred feet or so. After that, there is a slight edge to the M5 up to 100 mph, after which the M5 pretty much walks away. I'm saying this based on test results, and numerous reports of side-by-side races. The torque of the E55 gives you a much better launch than the M5, and results in a couple carlength lead at a stoplight. This is because the M5 doesn't have Launch Control here in the US, and once the wheels 'hook up', the engine takes a while to get to it's torque peak. The E55 is right there at torque peak as soon as you hit the gas from a start.
Once the cars are rolling, it's a different story. If you're in an E55, I wouldn't mess with an M5 from a roll, especially on the highway. The M5 is quicker 60-85 if you're in the right gear. The torque of the engine is actually meaningless once a car is rolling - it's wheel horsepower vs weight that gives you acelleration. That's because the torque that matters is torque applied to the rear wheels, and that is a function of engine torque multiplied by engine rpm. The M5 actually has more torque applied to the rear wheels at speed than the E55."
05-08-2006, 02:36 PM
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
The torque of the engine is actually meaningless once a car is rolling - it's wheel horsepower vs weight that gives you acelleration. That's because the torque that matters is torque applied to the rear wheels, and that is a function of engine torque multiplied by engine rpm. The M5 actually has more torque applied to the rear wheels at speed than the E55."
Hp = torque * RPM / 5252
When you factor gearing it's:
hp at the wheels = (engine torque)(differential ratio)(transmission gear ratio)(RPM)/5252
Torque is the only variable that really matters because without torque you have no horsepower. you measure torque and convert it to hp. It's the gears in the M5 that enable it to do what it does at higher speeds. I think you said it best with
if you're in the right gear
The M5 is no match for the E55 when modded. The E55 is easy to mod and can and will blow the M5 out of the water in any straightline race with the proper modifications. I've yet to see any stock M5 run the 1/4 mile anywhere near as quickly as most stock E55's. Out of the hole the E55 blows the M5 away but the M5 will catch up sometime after the 1/4 mile mark.
However, all of the M5 advantages can quickly be nullified with a better transmission on the E55. The 7 speed automatic can do it easily but has yet to be used in extremely high torque applications but that will be solved shortly. The E63 will address the tranny issue and will have the advantage at every speed vs the M5.
05-08-2006, 02:42 PM
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E55 2004
Hi soxfan,
I've run 2 m5's here in the last month, the first was from the line to the 1km mark. this was on the freeway, the m5 did launch with launch control and its nose did lift before mine, he got ahead about half car, when he changed out of 1 to 2nd, i closed the gap and past before getting into 2nd and thereafter pulled ahead about 5 car lengths to finish. The 2nd one was a roll at approx 140km(90mile), pulled ahead all the way to the speed limiter.
Yes i do believe what you are saying that the M5 generates more torque hence hp up top, but looking at a dyno report done today, the 55's torque is so much higher that even when it falls at high rpm the end figure could still be high. From road tests done overseas they say that the m5 is convincingly faster but here it could be the fuel (95oct.) or different software. on the benzworld forum on page 2, an e55 in Cape Town ran 138mph against an M5"s 126, both running together on a 1/2 mile straight sprint.
Have you went up against the M5?
Nb. Cape Town and Durban- both in S.A. are at sea level.
I've run 2 m5's here in the last month, the first was from the line to the 1km mark. this was on the freeway, the m5 did launch with launch control and its nose did lift before mine, he got ahead about half car, when he changed out of 1 to 2nd, i closed the gap and past before getting into 2nd and thereafter pulled ahead about 5 car lengths to finish. The 2nd one was a roll at approx 140km(90mile), pulled ahead all the way to the speed limiter.
Yes i do believe what you are saying that the M5 generates more torque hence hp up top, but looking at a dyno report done today, the 55's torque is so much higher that even when it falls at high rpm the end figure could still be high. From road tests done overseas they say that the m5 is convincingly faster but here it could be the fuel (95oct.) or different software. on the benzworld forum on page 2, an e55 in Cape Town ran 138mph against an M5"s 126, both running together on a 1/2 mile straight sprint.
Have you went up against the M5?
Nb. Cape Town and Durban- both in S.A. are at sea level.
05-08-2006, 02:42 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
However, all of the M5 advantages can quickly be nullified with a better transmission on the E55. The 7 speed automatic can do it easily but has yet to be used in extremely high torque applications but that will be solved shortly. The E63 will address the tranny issue and will have the advantage at every speed vs the M5.
05-08-2006, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
The acceleration of the m5 at higher speeds is due to better gearing.
Hp = torque * RPM / 5252
When you factor gearing it's:
hp at the wheels = (engine torque)(differential ratio)(transmission gear ratio)(RPM)/5252
Torque is the only variable that really matters because without torque you have no horsepower. you measure torque and convert it to hp. It's the gears in the M5 that enable it to do what it does at higher speeds. I think you said it best with and, since the m5 has so much less engine torque than the E55, the gearing is crucial to it's acceleration. With low torque and high gearing you have to really wring the car out and have it in the proper gear for great acceleration.
The M5 is no match for the E55 when modded. The E55 is easy to mod and can and will blow the M5 out of the water in any straightline race with the proper modifications. I've yet to see any stock M5 run the 1/4 mile anywhere near as quickly as most stock E55's. Out of the hole the E55 blows the M5 away but the M5 will catch up sometime after the 1/4 mile mark.
However, all of the M5 advantages can quickly be nullified with a better transmission on the E55. The 7 speed automatic can do it easily but has yet to be used in extremely high torque applications but that will be solved shortly. The E63 will address the tranny issue and will have the advantage at every speed vs the M5.
Hp = torque * RPM / 5252
When you factor gearing it's:
hp at the wheels = (engine torque)(differential ratio)(transmission gear ratio)(RPM)/5252
Torque is the only variable that really matters because without torque you have no horsepower. you measure torque and convert it to hp. It's the gears in the M5 that enable it to do what it does at higher speeds. I think you said it best with and, since the m5 has so much less engine torque than the E55, the gearing is crucial to it's acceleration. With low torque and high gearing you have to really wring the car out and have it in the proper gear for great acceleration.
The M5 is no match for the E55 when modded. The E55 is easy to mod and can and will blow the M5 out of the water in any straightline race with the proper modifications. I've yet to see any stock M5 run the 1/4 mile anywhere near as quickly as most stock E55's. Out of the hole the E55 blows the M5 away but the M5 will catch up sometime after the 1/4 mile mark.
However, all of the M5 advantages can quickly be nullified with a better transmission on the E55. The 7 speed automatic can do it easily but has yet to be used in extremely high torque applications but that will be solved shortly. The E63 will address the tranny issue and will have the advantage at every speed vs the M5.
"But isnt this the point- we're not comparing modded cars- if you wanted a car thats easier to modify, then its the E55 since its been out longer and forced induction usually allows easier modifying.
Where the E55 is going to lose is if you get into higher cornering speeds or sharper corners. The open rear differential causes the wheel with less grip (the inside wheel) to get the power and that causes a lot of ESP action. The M5's limited slip diff will allow the wheel with the most grip, the outside one, to get the power it needs and allow the car to power out of the turn.
The point on gearing is really my point- the torquey engine in the AMG is easier for most people to just drive because its really just got gobs of torque all the time. To get the most out of the M5, you really have to know what gear to be in and when. This does not make it better in an absolute sense, its just about who you are and what you enjoy.
Now, how about the fact that we are talking about how 2 family sedans accelerate and corner in ways that sports cars of 15 years ago could only wish. And these cars have sat-nav, and real trunks...."
I gotta agree with the part about comparing the non-modified editions...althoug I understand for others the mods are an essential dimension.
05-08-2006, 03:22 PM
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Couple quick points (brain's not functioning too well after biochem test)
1. The LSD argument is no argument: you can also get a factory installed LSD in an E55 in the rest of the world when you order an AMG car.
2. We're talking about straight line performance here, so no crap about I'll kill you or walk away in the twisties.
3. Provided that M5 has a high revving, high compression rate, and over tuned naturally aspirated engine, by definition, it has much less potential for modifications potential compared to a supercharged V8 that is neither high revving nor high compression ratio.
4. In day to day driving, can you keep the M5's V10 at its sweet spot all the time for instant power delivery? Impossible, unless you live in Wyoming, but you would be fueling up very often (that's a whole different story).
5. They also stated that the supercharged AMG V8 has been out for a long time, and that means BMW has much more time to develop and refine their V10 before putting it in their highly anticipated M5/6. Mind you that the M113 engine has been around for ages before it was supercharged by AMG. Just the fact that AMG can squeeze out 469-510 horses out of this old design is quite an accomplishment.
1. The LSD argument is no argument: you can also get a factory installed LSD in an E55 in the rest of the world when you order an AMG car.
2. We're talking about straight line performance here, so no crap about I'll kill you or walk away in the twisties.
3. Provided that M5 has a high revving, high compression rate, and over tuned naturally aspirated engine, by definition, it has much less potential for modifications potential compared to a supercharged V8 that is neither high revving nor high compression ratio.
4. In day to day driving, can you keep the M5's V10 at its sweet spot all the time for instant power delivery? Impossible, unless you live in Wyoming, but you would be fueling up very often (that's a whole different story).
5. They also stated that the supercharged AMG V8 has been out for a long time, and that means BMW has much more time to develop and refine their V10 before putting it in their highly anticipated M5/6. Mind you that the M113 engine has been around for ages before it was supercharged by AMG. Just the fact that AMG can squeeze out 469-510 horses out of this old design is quite an accomplishment.
05-08-2006, 03:33 PM
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One more thing before I go pick up my car: The M5/6 are definitely nice cars but they're really built for the autobahn and highways with much higher speed limit than 55-75mph. However, they aren't good for city traffic.
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05-08-2006, 03:42 PM
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
with two EXPERT drivers, on a track, maybe..... but really.... if you're racing an M5 vs E55 full throttle, in high speed corners, to the extremes that a LSD vs non LSD comes into play, you're probably both going to crash.....
the whole BMW twistie superiority view always amuses me... because 95% of the drivers out there woudln't know what to do in the "twisites" in the first place....
the only time the differneces in handling performace really comes out is when these cars are pushed to their maximum potential....
for everyday driving bragging rights, 0-60, 0-120 MPH, the E55 owns the M5....
here is my question, from a dead stop, can the M5 beat the E55 to their speed limiters at 154MPH? I know from my racing at the track, from a dead stop I ran a 12.07 @ 116.3, and the best M5 run I've seen, even with the charcoal filters removed was 12.5 @ 116..... that's about 5 car lengths the E55 has by the end of the 1/4 mile.... SO, can the M5 pull 5+ cars on the E55 over the next 38MPH? that's a tall order.....
the whole BMW twistie superiority view always amuses me... because 95% of the drivers out there woudln't know what to do in the "twisites" in the first place....
the only time the differneces in handling performace really comes out is when these cars are pushed to their maximum potential....
for everyday driving bragging rights, 0-60, 0-120 MPH, the E55 owns the M5....
here is my question, from a dead stop, can the M5 beat the E55 to their speed limiters at 154MPH? I know from my racing at the track, from a dead stop I ran a 12.07 @ 116.3, and the best M5 run I've seen, even with the charcoal filters removed was 12.5 @ 116..... that's about 5 car lengths the E55 has by the end of the 1/4 mile.... SO, can the M5 pull 5+ cars on the E55 over the next 38MPH? that's a tall order.....
Originally Posted by SoxFan
The response to this is:
Where the E55 is going to lose is if you get into higher cornering speeds or sharper corners. The open rear differential causes the wheel with less grip (the inside wheel) to get the power and that causes a lot of ESP action. The M5's limited slip diff will allow the wheel with the most grip, the outside one, to get the power it needs and allow the car to power out of the turn.
Where the E55 is going to lose is if you get into higher cornering speeds or sharper corners. The open rear differential causes the wheel with less grip (the inside wheel) to get the power and that causes a lot of ESP action. The M5's limited slip diff will allow the wheel with the most grip, the outside one, to get the power it needs and allow the car to power out of the turn.
05-08-2006, 10:12 PM
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04 E55
Well said. My car will be here Friday and it's KILLING me to wait for it !
(to make matter worse I saw a black 55 and a silver 55 today on the way home from work 
)....but from all I have read on this site both pro and con...it seems to me the E55 is one badass MF and will hold it's own with a lot of stuff on the road today !!! A 1/2 car length either way won't stop me from grinning ! And the E is just way better looking IMO...
(to make matter worse I saw a black 55 and a silver 55 today on the way home from work )....but from all I have read on this site both pro and con...it seems to me the E55 is one badass MF and will hold it's own with a lot of stuff on the road today !!! A 1/2 car length either way won't stop me from grinning ! And the E is just way better looking IMO...
05-09-2006, 12:16 AM
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so we've come to a conclusion that the M5 would reach 155 first?
i <3 ur fleet
sorry just had to add that
Originally Posted by vader
Well said. My car will be here Friday and it's KILLING me to wait for it ! (to make matter worse I saw a black 55 and a silver 55 today on the way home from work )....but from all I have read on this site both pro and con...it seems to me the E55 is one badass MF and will hold it's own with a lot of stuff on the road today !!! A 1/2 car length either way won't stop me from grinning ! And the E is just way better looking IMO...
(to make matter worse I saw a black 55 and a silver 55 today on the way home from work )....but from all I have read on this site both pro and con...it seems to me the E55 is one badass MF and will hold it's own with a lot of stuff on the road today !!! A 1/2 car length either way won't stop me from grinning ! And the E is just way better looking IMO...sorry just had to add that
05-09-2006, 02:14 AM
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211 E55(sold) & 80cc shifter kart
DUDE WHO CARES THE m5 IS A pos! ITS A BEAMER FOR GODS SAKE.
go ***'n drive one and you'll see what i'm saying.
NO MORE M5 THREADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
05-09-2006, 08:49 PM
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I thought this conversation was settled..........taking it from a person who drive both the E55 and the M5.In the quater mile stock ,with 516ft lb tq,given two equal drivers,the E55 will beat the pants off the M5,but beyond that the M5 will pull away from the E55 like a freight train.
The M5 outhandles the E55 on any given day of the week,while being a s/c the E55 will take more readily to modding than the M5.
As for looks its a matter of openion,no one thinks their baby is ugly,they all thinks its cute.Also both cars are a POS b/c they are all plague with some type of problem,that the manufacturers allow to keep reacurring.So to sum this up in one nutshell...no two nut shells.If your thing is corners,then the bmw should be your choice car,if its straight line then its definately the mb.
The M5 outhandles the E55 on any given day of the week,while being a s/c the E55 will take more readily to modding than the M5.
As for looks its a matter of openion,no one thinks their baby is ugly,they all thinks its cute.Also both cars are a POS b/c they are all plague with some type of problem,that the manufacturers allow to keep reacurring.So to sum this up in one nutshell...no two nut shells.If your thing is corners,then the bmw should be your choice car,if its straight line then its definately the mb.
05-09-2006, 08:56 PM
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E55
Originally Posted by jamusa
I thought this conversation was settled..........taking it from a person who drive both the E55 and the M5.In the quater mile stock ,with 516ft lb tq,given two equal drivers,the E55 will beat the pants off the M5,but beyond that the M5 will pull away from the E55 like a freight train.
The M5 outhandles the E55 on any given day of the week,while being a s/c the E55 will take more readily to modding than the M5.
As for looks its a matter of openion,no one thinks their baby is ugly,they all thinks its cute.Also both cars are a POS b/c they are all plague with some type of problem,that the manufacturers allow to keep reacurring.So to sum this up in one nutshell...no two nut shells.If your thing is corners,then the bmw should be your choice car,if its straight line then its definately the mb.
The M5 outhandles the E55 on any given day of the week,while being a s/c the E55 will take more readily to modding than the M5.
As for looks its a matter of openion,no one thinks their baby is ugly,they all thinks its cute.Also both cars are a POS b/c they are all plague with some type of problem,that the manufacturers allow to keep reacurring.So to sum this up in one nutshell...no two nut shells.If your thing is corners,then the bmw should be your choice car,if its straight line then its definately the mb.
05-09-2006, 09:28 PM
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E55
Originally Posted by AmenMercedesGo
Derek maybe we should have posted our M5 vs E55 run video. I have not had an M5 kick my *** yet. When it happens I'll gladly post it.
05-10-2006, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MB_Steve
Is your E55 tuned? How do you think a K2 or equivalent (Renntech, Evosport) will do up against an M5. Past the 1/4 mile. All the way to 180mph.
05-11-2006, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fikse
I know from my racing at the track, from a dead stop I ran a 12.07 @ 116.3, and the best M5 run I've seen, even with the charcoal filters removed was 12.5 @ 116...SO, can the M5 pull 5+ cars on the E55 over the next 38MPH? that's a tall order.....
..
..
I think you just answered your own question.
Look at the two times
E55: 12.07 @ 116.3
M5: 12.5 @ 116
The E55 has roughly ~0.5 seconds over the M5 in the 1/4 mile, yet their traps speeds are almost identical, telling you two things:
- That most of the E55's speed was built up in the launch and/or started off quicker off the line
- M5 Started off slower, but towards the top end starts to catch up and if these trends were to continue past the 1/4 mile will no doubt reel the E55 in.
05-11-2006, 03:41 AM
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996 C4, previously owned 996 c2, c32 amg, 350z, R33 GTR, R34 GTR
E55 all the way...I think the best fast luxury car (maybe second to the CLS only).
If you want to go round corners buy a p-car.
Why do M5`s look like 520d`s and why do they sound like them?
If you want to go round corners buy a p-car.
Why do M5`s look like 520d`s and why do they sound like them?
05-11-2006, 07:06 AM
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E55
Originally Posted by ash-c32
E55 all the way...I think the best fast luxury car (maybe second to the CLS only).
If you want to go round corners buy a p-car.
Why do M5`s look like 520d`s and why do they sound like them?
If you want to go round corners buy a p-car.
Why do M5`s look like 520d`s and why do they sound like them?
05-11-2006, 08:49 AM
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'08 S65, '04 Range Rover(The House), '06 Lexus GS 300(Wifey's), '02 Sea Ray 360 Sundancer
Originally Posted by vader
Well said. My car will be here Friday and it's KILLING me to wait for it ! (to make matter worse I saw a black 55 and a silver 55 today on the way home from work )....but from all I have read on this site both pro and con...it seems to me the E55 is one badass MF and will hold it's own with a lot of stuff on the road today !!! A 1/2 car length either way won't stop me from grinning ! And the E is just way better looking IMO...
(to make matter worse I saw a black 55 and a silver 55 today on the way home from work )....but from all I have read on this site both pro and con...it seems to me the E55 is one badass MF and will hold it's own with a lot of stuff on the road today !!! A 1/2 car length either way won't stop me from grinning ! And the E is just way better looking IMO...
05-11-2006, 09:48 AM
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
no I didn't... I personally don't think the M5 can pull that hard up top, to pull 5+ cars on the E55 over only 38MPH....
Originally Posted by 500Benz
I think you just answered your own question.
Look at the two times
E55: 12.07 @ 116.3
M5: 12.5 @ 116
The E55 has roughly ~0.5 seconds over the M5 in the 1/4 mile, yet their traps speeds are almost identical, telling you two things:
Look at the two times
E55: 12.07 @ 116.3
M5: 12.5 @ 116
The E55 has roughly ~0.5 seconds over the M5 in the 1/4 mile, yet their traps speeds are almost identical, telling you two things:
- That most of the E55's speed was built up in the launch and/or started off quicker off the line
- M5 Started off slower, but towards the top end starts to catch up and if these trends were to continue past the 1/4 mile will no doubt reel the E55 in.
05-11-2006, 10:31 AM
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04 E55
Originally Posted by ENDSMTG
Hey Vader, Where were you when you saw these cars? I counted six E55's this weekend downtown. If you were downtown, did you see the Carrera GT at Tavern on Rush? I was parked right behind it! Silver E55 with 542R HRE's!
