AMG headers vs Renntech Headers
#101
Originally Posted by eclou
The SL55 system as I understand it allows for individual fuel metering of each cylinder by going away from batch-fired injector pulses to individual injector control. There are some aftermarket stand alones that do the same thing. I have never heard of individual ignition timing but it would be an interesting concept. Back in college a couple of my roommates and I tried to pitch a concept of electromagnetic valve timing to Ford, which was not taken too seriously.
The newest thing to hit the mainstream is ionization cylinder correction. I think the new m5's have it. You can spray 120 hp dry kit and it will automatically add fuel and keep afr's close to stock. It responds extremely fast i was definitely in-pressed. I wonder if the system on the sl55 is the same way.
If you have time check out this study conducted in 2002 concerning the subject http://www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/Publ...LIC_962_IA.pdf
Last edited by rflow306; 05-30-2006 at 10:46 PM.
#102
I believe that is Steve is referring to MB's new cylinder-selective pilot control of the firing angle from their press release:
To me, this could be either retarding the timing of individual cylinders based on detonation detection, or optimizing timing based on the current draw of the spark plugs.
The improved AMG 5.5-litre V8 supercharged engine at the heart of the SL 55 AMG is equipped with a new, higher-speed supercharger compressor and a larger throttle valve to optimise the fresh-air supply. These modifications plus the installation of an even more efficient engine management unit have boosted the output of the AMG V8 powerplant from 368 kW/500 hp to 380 kW/517 hp, while the peak torque has been increased from 700 to 720 Nm. The electronic engine management now features cylinder-selective pilot control of the firing angle: this function sets the optimum combustion point individually for each cylinder, resulting in a further improvement in the efficiency of the AMG V8 engine. The new SL 55 AMG accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h in 4.5 seconds (outgoing model: 4.7 seconds) and goes on to reach an electronically limited top speed of 250 km/h.
#103
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,671
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From: strip bar in Oregon
211 E55(sold) & 80cc shifter kart
Originally Posted by DJe55
I have the EVO headers on my car that you say make very little improvement over stock. So why is my car the fastest in the 1/4 with just pulley/ecu and headers? Why is my 60' quicker than even Derek's car on NSO? I was thinking the headers were helping me?
not to make to big of a deal about your run, but i am skeptical of your run, I think the timming is off at the track you were at, you were also on st tires if i remember, and though you did have good weather the st tires really puts a question mark in my head about something is not right about that run, but hey i could be wrong.
#105
Originally Posted by Finny
I have these on mine... they work very well.
Hi...glad at least someone has them...
Please tell ME more...
What power increase ???
Any dyno results ???
Did you remove primary CATS ???
Did you tune your ECU ???
Thanks
#106
Originally Posted by rflow306
A lot of the standalone ecu's ie aem, speedpro, accell, big stuff and others have individual cylinder correction for timing and fuel.
The newest thing to hit the mainstream is ionization cylinder correction. I think the new m5's have it. You can spray 120 hp dry kit and it will automatically add fuel and keep afr's close to stock. It responds extremely fast i was definitely in-pressed. I wonder if the system on the sl55 is the same way.
If you have time check out this study conducted in 2002 concerning the subject http://www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/Publ...LIC_962_IA.pdf
The newest thing to hit the mainstream is ionization cylinder correction. I think the new m5's have it. You can spray 120 hp dry kit and it will automatically add fuel and keep afr's close to stock. It responds extremely fast i was definitely in-pressed. I wonder if the system on the sl55 is the same way.
If you have time check out this study conducted in 2002 concerning the subject http://www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/Publ...LIC_962_IA.pdf
Been told by Vadim ...70-80 shot NOS used not very often would be OK for E55 motor...
thinking about it...which is best set up ???
#107
Hey Steve,
When I started this project, the first thing I tried to do was purchase the 2007 SL55 TB but no one had Part #s for it yet and it wasnt in the parts order system so I couldnt get it.
It might be another alternative to what I am doing, or for all we know, it might actually be the same parts that I am using and just revived for the 2007 model.
When I started this project, the first thing I tried to do was purchase the 2007 SL55 TB but no one had Part #s for it yet and it wasnt in the parts order system so I couldnt get it.
It might be another alternative to what I am doing, or for all we know, it might actually be the same parts that I am using and just revived for the 2007 model.
Originally Posted by stevebez
Hey vrus,
Sounds like this "new" SL has the TB mod you are working on ... so supply of parts might be a bit easier ?
Sounds like this "new" SL has the TB mod you are working on ... so supply of parts might be a bit easier ?
#108
Originally Posted by BMWEATR
not to make to big of a deal about your run, but i am skeptical of your run, I think the timming is off at the track you were at, you were also on st tires if i remember, and though you did have good weather the st tires really puts a question mark in my head about something is not right about that run, but hey i could be wrong.
#110
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
I'm trying to figure out the design of the klemann headers I just received and if I'll see an increase in Hp.
#111
You will likely see gains, IF it is also tuned. The K headers are not shortys so it is laborious and takes out the cats. It should, however, give you about 10hp more than shortys. i just don't want to go smog illegal for 10hp and I like bolt ons, so RennTech it is.
#112
I think the Evosport headers are designed better than the RENNtech ones. The RENNtech one looks like they didn't even bother to try to make it equal length
#113
Has anyone done a comparison of the two? RennTech people seem happy with theirs as do EVO ones. I wonder if the gains are similar or different? I was holding a set of RennTechs yesterday, and yes the lengths are varied, but the quality looks really nice. Actually, it is the same for the TB. I like the ported and polished inerds.
With headers, I guess ultimately reliability and performance is what matters over looks, though. Any dyno results out there?
With headers, I guess ultimately reliability and performance is what matters over looks, though. Any dyno results out there?
#115
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Big Tube
There are different company's that do it but Airborn, Jet Hot and HPC are probably the most famous. Here are the links http://www.hpcoatings.com/,http://www.jet-hot.com/,http://www.airborncoatings.com/
This is a true thermo block and could be applied to any header, you could do the primary cats too. I don't know how much it would drop the under hood temp. We have used this in some trick turbo installs on boats it works 100%
This is the guys I use in Lauderdale.
http://www.mmxhaust.com/
I Love the banter on this thread, but guys at the end of the day we have no room to do most correct, all the headers discussed are a compromise.
Last edited by Yacht Master; 03-22-2007 at 11:37 PM.
#116
I agree that all the headers we have available have some compromise. Hell, they are shortys for a reason. I do like the coating idea. i wonder if RennTech would consider letting me treat a set before I have it installed? What are the disadvantages to the coatings from a product standpoint? For example, does it make the product more susseptible to cracks? If it is simply a cost factor, I don't mind paying the premium BEFORE install, rather than wishing I had it after.
#117
Back in the day Textron Lycoming had to come up with a insulating material for its LTS 101 gas turbine. This turbine has a huge recuperator on it to maximize the thermo efficiency. They developed a material much like the tiles on the space shuttle in that, a half inch layer will net, 1500 F on one side 70 f on the other. They kept this a secret as it was one of the prime ingredients of the M1A tank. It is now de-classified and in the public realm Marine exhaust fabricators now use this extensively.
This is a true thermo block and could be applied to any header, you could do the primary cats too. I don't know how much it would drop the under hood temp. We have used this in some trick turbo installs on boats it works 100%
This is the guys I use in Lauderdale.
http://www.mmxhaust.com/
I Love the banter on this thread, but guys at the end of the day we have no room to do most correct, all the headers discussed are a compromise.
This is a true thermo block and could be applied to any header, you could do the primary cats too. I don't know how much it would drop the under hood temp. We have used this in some trick turbo installs on boats it works 100%
This is the guys I use in Lauderdale.
http://www.mmxhaust.com/
I Love the banter on this thread, but guys at the end of the day we have no room to do most correct, all the headers discussed are a compromise.
#118
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,642
Likes: 11
From: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
I agree that all the headers we have available have some compromise. Hell, they are shortys for a reason. I do like the coating idea. i wonder if RennTech would consider letting me treat a set before I have it installed? What are the disadvantages to the coatings from a product standpoint? For example, does it make the product more susseptible to cracks? If it is simply a cost factor, I don't mind paying the premium BEFORE install, rather than wishing I had it after.
#119
I hear RennTech would do any thing for you . As far as disadvantages the process makes the part a half to three quarters of an inch larger, so fitments could be an issue. I can't speak for the material that RennTech is using or the process in welding that they use, but if they crack with out coating. they may crack with it. Some could argue that the thermo cycle would be less drastic therefore prolonging the life of the already annealed weldment. I have used 316-L stainless with no cracks.
#120
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,642
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From: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
A nice warm blanket
I am sure they could, with or without the factory heat shroud, just a question of getting a manifold to make template. In most cases the blankets are reflective silver and held in place by riveted hooks and wire.
#121
Was it the blankets you were talking about in your original post Yacht or a coating. Looks like those blankets are a real good option and I am sure someone here who installed header can come up with a pair of original mani's to provide a template....hi-tech blnket may eliminate a lot of that underhood heat. I admit I have not been able to look underneath and see if it would even be possible to install them is we had them.
#122
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,642
Likes: 11
From: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Was it the blankets you were talking about in your original post Yacht or a coating. Looks like those blankets are a real good option and I am sure someone here who installed header can come up with a pair of original mani's to provide a template....hi-tech blnket may eliminate a lot of that underhood heat. I admit I have not been able to look underneath and see if it would even be possible to install them is we had them.
In my original post I was referring to a coating it is about a half inch thick and would benefit the headers more, in that they are larger, more complex and get just as hot. The finish surface is much like fiberglass but wont burn. The header would have to be coated before installation on the car. The blanket on the other hand could be installed without removing the stock manifold.
In our installations the coating keeps heat in the manifold before the turbo this maintains maximum boost, and red-hot pipes are a fire hazard for us. Also after the turbo the coating on exhaust system helps to maintain a cool engine room. When running 90% load on a 2800 HP. diesel W/twin turbo W/ bypass blowers you can touch any part of the exhaust system and it is just warm, TIT / EGT 950-1040 F.