Ted Baldwin

.........I am aware of four K2/K4 ECU's now that can no longer be reprogrammed after the secondary air injection pump recall. Mine is one of them. Duyring the recall MB installs new programs in your ECU that hides the location of the load limiter and the location to tell the car if it has or does not have secondary CATs. This is not an accident. Looks like MB is deliberately thwarting the efforts of aftermarket tuners. You do the recall work to your car at your own risk.

...........I am not an engineering and did not sleep at the Holiday Inn last night. So the above information is not intended to sbstitute for the the informtion you get from mercedes regarding the safety of your car.

Ted

Jakpro1

Still wondering if we can buy another ECU to use as a backup.

We could roll with Klee's ECU til we go to the stealer, then swap um out.

Finally got a parts guy to give me a price of around a grand for a new one, but he treated me like I was trying to buy crack or something.....all quizzin me and crap.

Anyway, if I did grab another ECU, could I have Klee program it and let the stealer rape the stock one. Wonder if there are special vehicle codes and ID's built into the stock one.

Anyone know??

2K6E55

Oh shiet... This is BAD NEWS for us thinking about going to K2/K4...

Rock

I agree!!!!!! Do not complete the recall.

My understanding about the problem with reprogramming K2-K4 after the recall has to do with the O2 sensor. The solution is not an easy one. You have to have the secondary oxygen sensors relocated behind the second set of catalysts. This basically involves welding in an O2 sensor bung right behind the second set of cats, and extending the wiring harness of the O2 sensors in order to put the O2 sensors behind the second cats. This will effectively give the secondary O2 sensors the same signal as they had when the car was 100% stock, thus eliminating the possibility of a check engine light for catalyst inefficiency. You can purchase a bung from Summit Racing but you also have the wiring harness issue. On top of all this you need a good tech who knows what he is doing. It is not pretty.

BiTurboAmg

I had the recall done before my k2 program and kleemann has tried three times to get rid of that damn cel light due to the cats being removed. They sent me an o2 sensor something or another, but I am yet to have it installed. I did run the car on the 1/4mile and my best time was a 13.06 @ 104mph which sucked, but at 5320 feet I am hearing that a 12.8 or 12.7 is the best I can do. I am going to have the car dynoed this week and compare that to the dyno from kleemann and see what is going on. My gal swears the car feels slower then the day I got it back from kleemann? Maybe the ecu dumps my k2 program after so many miles? I will let you know by this week.

Ted Baldwin

............I have actually addressed this very issue with Kleemann. Yes you can buy another ECU. The problem is that you do not know what program is installed. It could still be the new problematic program. The ECU mercedes sells you is just as likely to contain their newest and latest program that is causing all these problems. It makes me worry about those buying E63's with the hope of having them modified later. Further, the new W221 S65.....can you flash the ECU like Renntech did to the W220? Not sure anymore. MB does not understand that they will sell more of these cars if owners can more easily modify them. They don't get it.

Ted

housclass

one problem...if you take the car in for warranty work they have to do the recall!!...anyway around this??? last time my car was in for warranty (march i think) the service adviser told me she had to do a recall in order to do warranty work??...no, i don't have a k2 kit or even k1...my car runs good and i didn't want them messing with anything...if it's not broke, don't fix it!!!

john

E552006

This whole thing is C R A P. Can you imagine if Microsoft edited your registry without your consent? Some big trial lawyer would be all over it with a class action suite. Even if it is a 1000 line document that you click on, you know that they are changing software code. Sony just went through this with their music player. BIG LAW SUITE PENDING.
With MB, you don't have a choice. They are editing ECU's without the consent of the owners, the people who PURCHASED these vehicles.
I say, leave it the F#$# alone, I paid for it, it's mine.
I will sue your asses if you touch my ECU! I tell you this, if the dealer flashes mine, without consent, there will be big problems in Savannah.

Rock

Housclass + Mb Ecu Reflash = No More 11 Sec Runs

L8Apex

Ok, help me understand the benefits of doing or not doing the recall if the car was to remain stock vs a K2? My car (stock) is going in for service next week. Thanks!

LazyE55

Ah Man thank god I'm not the only one. I had the K2 installed but had hte damn check engine light on. So what my shop did was relocate the O2 sensor behind the secondary cats.(BTW I have no primary Cats). But no matter what was done i would get a check engine light. Well the shop took it to a shop that had a diagnostic tool, so they used that to see which fault codes were being thrown. It was the O2 sensor at first. No biggie. But the second time they ran the diagnostic tool they found 9 FAULT CODES!. Cant remember them all but here are some i remember. Supercharger Overload, O2 pump shutoff, and Supercharger clutch and somthing else... can't remember My ECU is has been sent out today.....so hopefully Cory could help me resolve my problems.....hoping

Jrocket

Funny this thread popped up.I just dropped my car off at the dealer to reset my tpms and srs light,while I was there I asked about doing mods to my car and if It was ok or not.He said Mb is really starting to look at the ecu's more and more now.If they see any tampering/rewriting/codes on there that shouldnt be then the car gets a status 9 code and that basically means No more warranty.So I asked about changing the pulleys and adding the shorty headers,seems like that might not be a problem but the ecu writing is way out of the question...

So my next question is,can the pulleys and headers be added without the ecu program and still be efficient and worth the money or not?

BiTurboAmg

Aside from your check engne light how was your car. Does it still feel as fast as the day you got it back? I know I had alot of fault codes after the k2 work but my mb tech says that is common when you disconnect the batt. Let me know how it goes. So your check engine light is still on after the o2 sensor was relocated? I have been living with my cel for a month now. Keep me posted on what happens.

Rudyrono

Seems to me like this is as big a problem for the tuning companies as it is for us who have modified our vehicles. What's their response? If they want to stay in business, they'll have to adapt to the changing times. I will be in contact with my Renntech dealer asap to get some answers.

Grumpy666

I've seen this posted in many threads and I'm a little confused. Where exactly are the secondary cats? I'm aware of the primary cats, resonators, and mufflers, but not a another set of cats. Can you enlighten me, please?

BTW, the issue with the secondary O2 sensor is easily fixed with an O2 simulator or a simple voltage divider on the 12-volt input fed into the sense wire.

2MANYCARS

Oh no, I just picked up mine few days ago, I hope MB didn't flash my ECU with anything. On the other hand, if you are mechanically skillful, then you can perform all the warranty work yourself to avoid all the hassles.

LazyE55

My tech took it for a drive and told me it drives like CRAP. I mean real slow
Even with the O2 sensor relocated i had the check engine light on. I wouldnt have mind if the light was still on....but the car drives horrible. Its at my shop right now....hopefully Cory gets the ECU either tomarrow or the next day....so hopefully he figures something out

Rock

Grump, do I need to draw a picture? If you are questioning whether the stock system actually has secondary cats, then go to the SuperSprint site for their W211 exhaust System:
"The front section of the Supersprint exhaust uses one cat on each side for a total of 2 metallic cats, each with a 100 cpsi rating. The stock system, on the contrary, uses a total of 4 cats (2 catseach side), 2 of them (1 each side) are positioned very close to the cylinder heads, and their rating is 400+ cpsi. This design severely restricts the exhaust gas flow and performance of the engine. The Supersprint HJS cats, made in Germany by Emitec, the world leader in technology for performance, metallic catalytic converters, are positioned further downstream in the exhaust system, and have the much lower cpsi rating of 100 cells per square inch. These features guarantee a dramatic reduction of the exhaust gas back-pressure and also allows for lower engine temperature in the head exhaust ports' area when under a load, especially at medium and high rpm. This Supersprint exhaust component uses before - and -after-cat Lambda sensor ports, which allows it to remain compatible with the cars own OBD II emission management system."




That is not what I hear from Kleemann. Yes, O2 Simulators have been used for years and years and there are several products already on the market for Japanese import cars, etc., but unfortunately, these generic circuits do not work properly on MB cars. Do you have a solution?

Okay Grump, I answered your questions, now answer mine:
1. Are you a spy for MB?
2. Do you own an AMG?

Either way I still like you.

andytsai996

I had K2 performed after my recall done. No problem what so ever, my cats was also removed. My shop asked me if i wnated to keep my cat before the upgrade I told them "no cats" but from what I heard on this board, all K2 remove cats right? any idea?

Andy

Ted Baldwin

..........the major problem with this is not the O2 sensor issue but the placement of a load limit on the engine. Before the recall work, there were folks with K2's running mid 11's. What we need now is to see these mid 11's replicated in a car that has had the recall work done. None so far. Even if you feel just fine about your car, take it to a dyno and to the track and see if you get 480RWHP and the 11 sec 1/4 mile time. This is the problem, not the O2 sensor issue which triggers a check engine light. You can drive your car with the check engine light on if you wish. My G55 ran the 12.9 with check engine light on........before the recall work.

.........There are primary and secondary CATs which come into play only when you install Kleemann's headers which is not part of K2.


........Those with this recall work done who feel their cars are driving just fine should please go dyno the car and hit the track and come back with info.
Ted

SleeperX

This sounds like a conspiracy to me orchestrated by Mercedes Benz. Why would they do this. Because the E63 WILL BE MUCH SLOWER THAN THE PRE-REFLASH ECU E55s. Think about it. IF the new E63 is slower than the old E55 what do you do if you are MB and you want people to upgrade. You screw with the old car and make it slower. It is like a virus. Software companies manufacture viruses so that you have to buy the latest anti-virus software. Sounds crazy, but why else would they do this? WTF!!! When the new E63 runs the 1/4 mile against an E55, the E55 will be running in the high 12s, low 13s.

sid 951

i don't know much about benz's but have exp. with other stuff manufacturers love to void warranties-as evidenced to the amount of new evo's in my shop that are voided with pissed buyers-it seems it would be harder to void a warranty on a benz more money involved-if they are doing this tuners will usually find a way around it. As far as the cel goes and the cats what's kicking the light off i have the scanner and would like to see what's causing it. As far as the recall it just sounds fishy is mb of NA detuning them? i would be pissed im looking at clk 55amg's but e55's have caught my interest looking for something more refined than the 951's i currently have if i can help in anyway let me know.

SleeperX

I had the reflash done to my ECU. I have the Renntech Stage 4 package. Prior to the upgrade my fastest 1/4 mile was a 12.106 @ 120.65 mph. After the reflash my fastest 1/4 mile was 12.072 @115.88mph. I think the reason for the slower Mph though is that I put 1/16 93 octane and 3/16 100 octane in my fuel tank just before the run without letting the ECU adapt to the 100 octane fuel. Plus my 12.072 run was my fifth run of the day after I realized that I was getting a proper burnout because I forgot to turn my ESP off prior to doing a burnout.I think I will track the car again to see how it runs.

sid 951

i wonder if moving the cats downstream is allowing them to not light off as quick-maybe not allowing them to run as effecient and thats throwing a code. running 4cats to start with is bs-are the us cars same as the euros?

Ted Baldwin

............a 5mph drop in trapspeed is hugely significant and cannot be accounted for by the reasons you gave. The simple truth is that your car has lost power since the ECU work. Your 1/4 mile times are largely unchanged and can be accounted for by your 60ft times etc. Although 1/4 mile times give you bragging rights, the trapspeed is what tells how much power your car is making and your power is down. There can be other reasons such as temp etc. Still yet to see a car with recall work done with HP unchanged.

Ted