rotex

As I see it, the major weakness with my E55 is handling. I am serious contemplating removing the airmatic suspension and installing PSS9's. Don't know how major an undertaking this would be or if it would substanially improve handling...Any thoughts?

jangy

I am sure that I am in the minority, but I love airmatic. To me, it is exactly why the car handles so well. With so much weight, an active suspension helps to distribute the weight. Between that and learning how to modulate the brakes, i like the handling (for a tug boat). I'm sure all the purist will chime in and tell you to get F1 parts, but I am speaking from plane experience. Not that I can hang with ANY motorcycle, but you do not know the number of countless comments I get about how this car stays flat, does not dive, and maintains curve speed.

One thing you can do, not that I have (hehe), is to have the Airmatic system revalved to your liking. You'd be amazed at how flexible these systems are. It isn't cheap, depending on who does the work, and it isn't reversible either, so make sure you want it.

CynCarvin32

Well Rotex I agree with you 100%. The cars ability to corner is far less than its ability to fly in a straight line. Some members will say well its a 4 door what do you expect? I expect M5 like dynamics becuase that car is just as fast, rides just as well, but corners 100% better.

PSS-9's are great and it can be done. You could follow the lead of Brabus and have the system removed and use coil-overs. They do this on the CLS V12 TT they make because at speed AirMatic can not deal with the high loads from areodynamics and body motions.

Like Jangy said you can re-valve the airmatic shocks but I have nevr seen ANYONE who could do this. You need to remove each shock, take out the air blader and replace it with a version that is stiffer. You would also need create and ECU to go with it. I know a tuner who thought about doing this but found it WAY to expensive to bring to market.

I feel your pain. Try lowering the car no more than say 1/2 an inch using star diagnostic or a RENNtech digital lowering module. See how you think of the car at that point in time. It does firm up a bit. Also add the front camber bolts and reduce the total front toe-in to just outside factory spec (going towards 0 inches of toe in. That should liven up the car. I enjoy the car a bit more this way but still desire more.

jangy

Hehe, I think Cyn and I are the only ones that expect the E to handle. That doesn't mean it does, but it also doesn't mean that it is futile.

As far as the revalving, I can try to get details but I am pretty sure he was NOT replacing the bladder. From what I remember, he was actually modifying stock parts, not adding new ones (unless he fabbed them). I am not a race expert and I only got turned onto the guy because I had my GSXR1000 prepared for the race track by him and he completely revalves the front shocks. I am sure that all he does with those is simply modify the size of the holes, etc. in the valves, since he did it to my bike. The difference was IMMENSE and WAAAY better than the aftermarket shocks that others have.

At the time, I thought he was doing something similar to the Airmatic shocks. he does remove them, but there is definitely no ECU tuning involved. Purely mechanical. I'll check to see what it is. The main down side is that the mod is very VISIBLE and therefore warranty on the Airmatic is GONE!!

Lastly, I agree with Cyn on the speed. My experiece with the handling on my car is only at lower speeds (i.e. under 100mph), so I can not tell you about high speeds. If you are truly looking to track the car, I would go coil overs. If, however, you want a street fighter and don't mind mods, then you may want to play with Airmatic.

jangy

Ok, I got some details.

He does NO computer anything. He can't and doesn't. He learned this stuff while working on a race crew and they basically started messing about with the Firestone Air Bags and expanded it for prototype cars only. None of the work he has done has made it to market, yet but he tries on.

He does NOT mess with the external air portion, which basically runs actuated valves and is controlled by the main air tank and bank. He does NOT replace the bladder in each shock, either. Instead he mixes a matrix and wraps it around the bladder, or even "pinches" part of it off (depending on the particular design). Just as a note, he HAS NOT done the bladder work to a W211 Airmatic. He was simply telling me what he HAS done, since I asked about it (from Cyn's comments).
What he does do is the basic same procedure that can be done on ANY high pressure gas shock (revalving). He does take the shock apart (scary), because he has to get to the internals.

Anyhow, he has some PDF files that are used as training materials for MB techs which have a blown up diagram of the front and rear systems. he showed me on that the holes that he bores out. It looks really simple, but he said it is a HUGE amount of labor to get in and out. He does NOT think that the shocks were engineered to be serviced, so they do not really come apart well. That is why he hates the MB system. He says that other companies use more of a component system platform that allows for better tuning.

At any rate, he is a really bright guy, but I can only listen to a fast talking German for so long before I get lost. Hehe. I am even confused on what he was saying. I think he said that he ONLY messes with the oil, but he also said high pressure gases. I was getting confused between what he calls "external" and "internal" gas. I know he meant the Airmatic acuated is external, but I don't know if the internal is gas or oil. Now he wants to look into the extenal part. He wonders if a different "gas" would not perform better?? Anyone even know what MB pumps into the Airtank? I always assumed just air, but never thought about it. I guess an inert gas is better and I assume that MB may already do that. Any clues??

Lastly, the dude scared me a bit. I thought he had worked on MBs more than he has!!

vader

Smile...wave...take several steps backward...turn around and RUN !!

jangy

I know. I know. That is exactly what my wife says. But, keep in mind. His bikes have DOMINATED Willow.

pas

Screwing around with motorcycle shocks and modifying the airmatic system, is like shooting off bottle rockets and saying you could run shuttle launch. (maybe that is a small exageration...)

They are not even close to being in the same league.

The airmatic system has air in it, I took mine apart to install the Sirius. I put it back together and it filled back up.

rotex

Thanks for the info guys! You would think one of the Benz tuners would develop a viable solution. I am sure a ton of folks would be interested in improving their cars handling.

jangy

Actually, I don't think so. Most want their cars to be faster in the 1/4mile. You, me, and Cyn are about the only ones BEGGING for handling mods.

vader

Yeah...you have to slow down to turn on to the return road at the end of the quarter anyway !!!

sybron

Hi

I was also interested in doing this mod of changing my airmatic to PSS9s but my mechanic in Singapore advised me against it because it will be necessary to do a ECU re-tuning to "trick" the car into thinking that it no longer has airmatic and also certain safety features such as ABS is linked to the airmatic suspension. Unless you have a mechanic that really knows what he is doing, it could be an expensive mistake if this mod will cause numerous "malfunction" problems.

rotex

My mechanic said we could potentially run the E500 software to integrate the suspension.

Funforme

I am driving my E55 to NYC for the first time this weekend and I am worried about the NYC roads, how careful do I need to be? I don't want to have problems because of a weekend trip to the city. Also, anyone have ideas of where I should make dinner reservations and stay in the city, it is last minute but I am taking a someone there and want to make sure she has a good time and I don't want to end up in some dump.

Funforme

Oh, and Rotex, did you ever find out if that suspension conversion is possible and how much that would cost?

Kev04C320

The beast in the city will be fine. Just don't floor your car and put it in comfort if you want your passenger to feel comfortable. I've seen a Z8 charging full steam ahead on Madison Ave and he bottomed out his car when he hit a pot hole at the intersection of Madison and 57th. As for accomodation, the Four Seasons in midtown is my new favorite spot.

rotex

I am still in discussions with my shop to install the PSS9's. It looks like its possible. Will update folks as I get more info.

Funforme

That sounds great, I will just take it easy when I'm in the city with the car this weekend. Now all I have to do is figure out where to eat and find a hotel with rooms, not that easy.

Kev04C320

Nothing is impossible with the right amount of money. As discussed earlier, you probably need to find the code strings that would totally separate the Airmatic DC system with the other electronic systems in the car, and transplant those codes into the E55 ECU. Simply plugging in a ECU for another will not work for sure. Also, I don't think the E500 ECU would work since it has Airmatic standard as well. You need to look for a E320 or 350 without Premium Package.

Rafal

What is that obsession with E55's supposedly bad handling? How many of these detractors and lounge room Schumachers have actually driven it around the circuit to validate their theories? If one tries to chuck the beast around a 90deg street corner, fast enough to read the rear license plate,
like a WRX or Evo, then one is looking for trouble.
But take it to the proper circuit with a lowered suspension, good track tires and with a bit of skill you will beat M5, M6, M3, GTO, Falcons, novice Porsches and Evo's.
Hell, I have even beaten motorcycles on mountain passes (on street tires).
Our car is very predictable, well balanced, stable and strong as a train.
Treat it right, know it's limitations, learn from it, and it is invincible.
Sorry guys, but any idiot can floor it and white-knuckle the steering for 1/4 mile!
Level of skill required:2/10, bravery: 3/10, satisfaction on beating a lesser car:8/10, bragging power: 10/10 ...

jangy

Been there, done that. Next time make it a sport bike, instead of a Bimmer.

I can't make people that witness speak up, I can only tell my end.

You are barking at the wrong people. If you are happy with your E55's handling out of the box, then more power to you. For others of us, we are willing to compromise some things for faster curve speeds. If you really think adding race tires to an E55 and lowering it with your 88cent washers is going to beat real cars that have been tuned, then you live in a pretty uncompetitive world. You won't find a single track in California where there aren't plenty of good drivers and tricked out cars. So, all this valor of you being such the great driver and everyone else being a nitwit can only go so far.
Everything in life is relative. In Egypt, my dad's E320 was a MONSTER!! Too bad this isn't Egypt, huh?

Rafal

Come on, that's all a bit harsh! I am on your side and wasn't having a shot at you, but only referring to all those freeway on-ramp jockeys, who can only ever drive in a straight line
I have no illusions about this car being super competitive or my fantastic driving skills, but when I see others prostrate themselves before M5's and Porsches based on what they believe or overheard at the 19th hole in their country club, I reserve the right to set the record straight, based on my personal, albeit limited track experience. If that makes me the greatest driver in your eyes, thank you... All I am saying is that most E55 owners do not take the time to explore the actual limits of their own skill or the car's ability but keep complaining about it's shortcommings.
I am sure that there are many "tricked up cars" on your tracks, just as many as we have here. I am comparing a stock E55, with 80c worth of washers and a set of R-compound tires, to stock Porsches, M5, M6,M3, all on Michelin Pilot Cup tires, going around the circuit on a high performance drive day , not a full blown race for a plastic trophy. What's wrong with that?
As to the 80c washer method, you have no experience of it whatsoever, just the fear of the unknown, but you continue to criticise it as if you really knew what you were talking about.
You must really know very little about Australia (or is it Austria...hmmm),
our cars, tracks and motorsport to fire that cheap Egypt shot. The next time you see a Pontiac GTO, remember, it is not a camel-mobile, but a kangaroo rebadged.
GM couldn't make it themselves, so we made it for them...

jangy

Hehe, actually my pops lived in Egypt. I don't mean anything by it, dude. I know you track it and I know you love driving, so it is alll good. I do love the handling of the car and have always been saying that it has a better capability than what people here say.

I do know very little about Australia, other than the typical stereotypes and that it has an awesome Reef. Well, that and it has an E55 lurking about looking for unsuspecting victims.....

Rafal

OK we're cool, I'll put 80c worth of washers in the mail for you!