Ted Baldwin

...........does anyone have a solution for the check engine light that comes on with the installation of Kleemann headers? As I understand it, the Kleemann headers require the removal of two of four oxygen snsors, thus causing the check engine light to come on. Up until now it was possible through the K2 ECu program by Kleemann to simply tell the car that it only has two O2 sensors. But since the secondary air injection pump recall, it is no longer possible to do this. Does anyone have the check engine light and if so, what did you do to fix it?

Ted

jangy

Hmmm, I'm getting scared of the K2. Anyone know the answer? Also, wouldn't smog inspectors in California care that the cats are gone?

vrus

There is only 1 solution right now, but you wont like it...

Have someone disable the check engine light using Star Diagnostics.

Other than that, after the recall has been performed, the location of the O2 sensors was moved so the code that used to disable them doesnt work anymore.

Albert (rflow306) experimented with O2 simulators but he said that it isnt a proper solution. The ECU seems to "test" the O2 sensors once a week.. He goes a week without the check engine light, and then, the ECU tries to test for them and throws a code. He keeps resetting it, but it re-occurs.

Grumpy666

There are about a half dozen codes that can be set for the secondary O2 sensor. Do you know which one(s) he is getting?

Ted Baldwin

.........Do the Kleemann headers offer any advantage compared to headers from other companies? Is the deletion of a pair if oxygen sensors useful to generate more HP or torque for the engine? If not, are the Kleemann headers significantly less expensive than other headers? If not, why are we all buying the Kleemann headers? Again, I like Kleemann..........the secondary air injection recall is not their fault, but knowing what you know now will you buy Kleemann headers for your AMGV8K engine if you were a new buyer? If not, what are the other alternatives. Do the Renntech and Evosport headers require oxygen sensor deletion?


Ted

PTE

On my CLK with Kleemann headers & down pipes. I mounted the 100 cell race cats as close to the collector flange as possible. I also installed threaded bungs for the rear o2 sensors just after the Cat. As close as possible. I did shim them out,( the rear sensors ) .125 so they didn't cause much disruption in the exhaust flow. I think there was maybe a little loss of H/P over a no cat exhaust (2 to 4 H/P) I also think that the closer you mount the race cats to the manifolds/ Headers. The quicker they heat up. The rear o2 sensors see the diff in temp. The ECU likes what it seeing. No err Codes are set. I did tell Cory @ Kleemann what I was up to, at the time, I was building the exhaust system. So I believe he left the rear o2 sensers alone , in the ECU reflash. Now The only Time I get a o2 sensor err code is on the Dyno ?? I don't know why. But never has it set a CEL or set a err code on the Street. Maybe you should thing about installing race cats?http://www.rpmoutlet.com/powercat.htm

rflow306

P0140 and P0160 No activity detected. Takes a few days to come on.

Ted Baldwin

...........This problem as I understand it does not affect the non AMGV8K cars. The Ecu reflash here is the dealer mandated ECU reflash done durring the factory recall. I don't think this applies to your car. I a W210 E55 AMG with Kleemann headers and no problems.

............Again my question is, on the AMGV8K cars, what advantage if any does one get by using Kleemann headers? If none, then why are we all buying them. Are we just being sheepish? Or is the check engine light problem present with headers from other manufacturers as well?

Ted

jangy

The light is NOT on with some other manufacturers, but you can argue about performance gains. I'm now in stand by mode, as Jeff had me going the K2 route. Then, I was leaning at EVO. Now, I am thinking Renntech.

Just as a reference, the Kleeman Header calls for a 12 hour assembly, while the RENNtech is a straight bolt on. Others can chime in on the truth, as this is what my "research" is finding. I have not done headers, yet.

Rock

Ted,

This "check engine light" issue is perplexing and I'm not sure why we're all not having the same problem. My 05 car was downloaded with the new MB program and then re-flashed with the new K2 update and I have yet to see a check engine light.

As far as the advantage of Kleemann headers.............. I thought their larger collection canisters allow the engine to produce more horsepower compared to other direct bolt-on designs. At least that's what my shepherd always told me.

vrus

Guys,

If the check engine light doesnt come on for some people and it does for others it could be because on some cars the check engine light was DISABLED altogether.

It would be easy to test this..

Put the key into position 2 (Dont start the car).. All the lights on the dash will illuminate. If the CHECK ENGINE light (on the right part of the clock dial) doesnt illuminate during this period then it is DISABLED.

If it illuminates then you know your check engine light is enabled and functioning.

Go try it!

Fast55

Ted, Victor,
I have been following all of this and have a question. My 2006 and I are Cal. based. As far as I know, nothing "stage 2" and above would be smog legal here. I'm not too worried about an invisible upgrade such as K1, Evo stg. 1, etc. These should be transparent to a smog facility. The question is, are there any issues with that? Since the cats are untouched and nothing is obviously modified, I expect any of these would pass smog and that there are no issues with CEL's or a power loss from stage 1 due to this latest flash? Since none of the tuners' stage 1 offerings are that powerful in comparison to say, a K3 or K4, I should not have a problem hitting the new "load limit" imposed by the new code?

jangy

You are only partially correct. To answer your question, yes a K1 is smog safe.

To say that "nothing stage 2 and up is legal is COMPLETELY incorrect. The law has nothing to do with running "clean". To pass smog in Californa, you have to prove that your car is performing as manufactured by a 2 step qualification. First, is the tube in the pipes to check your levels. A K2 may pass that, but that is not the problem. The second rule in California is that the Cats CAN NOT BE MOVED!! K2 removes them, therefore you are illegal. PERIOD. Are there smog shops that will not tell? Yes, but it is illegal.

This is a huge topic right now, and I am shying away from the K because of it. Look up RENNtech's stages. You can go all the way to stage 3, and still stay legal. Is it as pure as the K2 that way? we can argue over the hp, etc. But we are simply talking smog legal here.

Rock

I did that and my check engine light does come on, so it is not disabled. It has to be some other reason.

Fast55

As far as I know, NOTHING from Evo, Kleemann, or Renntech is smog legal here in Cal., not even stage 1. I'm not overly concerned about that because you would still pass the visual part of the inspection, and as long as it burns clean, a smog shop shouldn't be able to catch that. Removing the cats is a dead give away however. Most shops probably wouldn't even know you removed the cats with a stage 2, but I don't want the hassle and unless the problems with my car get fixed, it's gone in the next year or 2 anyway and I won't pour money into it like I did with the '02.

Ted Baldwin

.................I won't be worried about the check engine light if I can be certain of two things. First, I need to know that the car will pass the smog test. Second, I need to know that there is no problem with the engine. If you dissable your check engine light, don"t you loose the ability to have early warning of potential engine problems? Say your engine is about to blow up, but your check engine light is dissabled are just SOL till Kaboom!! Or does the check engine light not serve any useful purpose for the engine other than clean air regulation?

...........will the car pass or not pass smog test with the secondary O2 sensors deleted and check engine light on?

Ted

Jakpro1

Ted, remind me again, is the O2 fix mandatory?

Really starting to think I am gonna ask if I can skip this fix when she goes in next time.

If I refuse this fix...worst thing is they red flag me and warranty is toast correct??

dragonAMG

My invoice shows 7.1 hours for the install of the Kleemann headers.

dragonAMG

+1

Grumpy666

The no activity codes mean the ECU is not seeing a signal from the O2 sensor (or sim). It's expecting to see 0.4-0.5 volts. Check sim output, connector, and wiring correctness (is the sim output feeding the ECU data line?). Since this is emissions-related, the turn-on delay is probably cause by the readiness check.

Ted Baldwin

.............absolutely not mandatory. This is what I've been trying to say. You can have the rest of the recall work done and simply instruct the dealer NOT to flash your ECU. I wish I had done that. I don't understand why anyone with engine modifications or who plans to do engine modifications in the future will be remotely unsure whether or not to allow the dealer to flash their ECU. Even if you don't plan to modify your car, no boby so far has said one single benefit of having your ECU flashed by the dealer.

Ted

SLK55R

Well my OBDII data logger should be here today ... this way you can see your own error codes and reset the CEL. Of course I'm using a SLK55 so I don't have the ECU reflash that you guys are all going thru. Would be curious to see if a different OBDII data logger can still get info from your car. I know that some have been having problems after the reflash. Which to me is strange because Mercedes is legally binding to provide some data thru the OBDII port.

jangy

I am not here to start a debate, but why is the RENNTECH stage 3 not legal? Is it California Smog Certified? That is not what I said. I said it was smog legal, which simply means that it will pass a smog test WITHOUT you having to illegally pay the dude an extra $200. A K2 will not. PERIOD.

We are stricktly talking law here and not telling people what to do. Heck, my windows are dark as can be (almost) and they are illegal, but I choose to use them. I am not judging just making sure everyone understands the truth, so that they can make the decision that is best for themselves.

If you really think the lack of cats won't be noticed, go ahead and get it done. If you are really brave , go to the 15 minute smog pros guys.

jangy

How about to maintain your warranty. Many "fixes" are not an option. If they wer, they would be DTBs. When the Vin is flagged, it WILL get done in the next visit or there could be liability issue. Imagine you refuse the current upgrade, and your secondary injectors failed and that caused a catastrophy (just imagine, don't argue crap). Who is to blame and must MB fix the problem under warranty?

Ted Baldwin

............I don't think you understand this fully. ECU reflash part of the recall is just to prevent your check engine light from coming on and has nothing to do with fixing the relay for the secondary injection pump. The relay and the pump can be fixed as part of the recall and the ECU not be flashed. I hope this clears it up.

Ted