Headers installation...need help !!!
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Headers installation...need help !!!
Hello guys...I need you help and reccomendations...
Since I have a Headers already, I am thinking to installing them alone for NOW...without pullies or ECU upgrade...
The HEADERs are Kleemann Style ones from AUS...
Therefore I would need to remove Primary CATs, then I would get "check engine" light, so I am thinking of relocating Secondary O2 sensors behind Secondary CATs, this should cure check engine light problems...
The main question is IS is OK run Header without pullies and ECU uphrade and will I get more POWER ???
Victor told ME before that HE got 30 HP at the wheels with just EVO Headers, mine are without Primary Cats should make even MORE POWER !!!
Your comments and suggestions PLEASE !!!
Last edited by E55 RUSS; Jul 25, 2006 at 08:52 AM.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
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Mike,
Its true that my power jumped from 411rwhp to 442rwhp with just the Evo headers. Keep in mind that if you take off those primary cats and dont relocate both O2 sensors so that they are sandwiched in between the secondaries, you will get a check engine light.
I remember someone telling me that the primary cats are worth 10rwhp, so you should be at approx 40rwhp increase if you do that.
Headers will drop your boost approx 1 - 2lb but you are still making more power. Leave the ECU & pullies alone until you are ready to go to the next step.
Go ahead and install the headers.
Its true that my power jumped from 411rwhp to 442rwhp with just the Evo headers. Keep in mind that if you take off those primary cats and dont relocate both O2 sensors so that they are sandwiched in between the secondaries, you will get a check engine light.
I remember someone telling me that the primary cats are worth 10rwhp, so you should be at approx 40rwhp increase if you do that.
Headers will drop your boost approx 1 - 2lb but you are still making more power. Leave the ECU & pullies alone until you are ready to go to the next step.
Go ahead and install the headers.
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You can definitely do just the EVO headers and get a LOT of power out of it. Plus you gain a bit more GROWL out of the engine.
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so I am thinking of relocating Secondary O2 sensors behind Secondary CATs, this should cure check engine light problems...
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Thanks for your help guys...
I would need to relocate O2 sensors cause the ECU upgrade I will be getting from the people who made those Headers and runs same pullies size as ASP ones...
Vadim are you 100% sure about O2 sensors relocation ???
Bigger diameter Headers and removal of Primary CATS will make more flow and the heat will go out faster, so may be it will make Secondary cats warn enough ???
They say they relocate 02 sensors behind Secodary Cats and everything works great...
Appox HP figure they quote with Headers, Pullies and their ECU reflash is 450KW, ammounts to 612 HP at the crank, I dont know what it would be at the wheels
..
I would need to relocate O2 sensors cause the ECU upgrade I will be getting from the people who made those Headers and runs same pullies size as ASP ones...
Vadim are you 100% sure about O2 sensors relocation ???
Bigger diameter Headers and removal of Primary CATS will make more flow and the heat will go out faster, so may be it will make Secondary cats warn enough ???
They say they relocate 02 sensors behind Secodary Cats and everything works great...
Appox HP figure they quote with Headers, Pullies and their ECU reflash is 450KW, ammounts to 612 HP at the crank, I dont know what it would be at the wheels
..
Last edited by E55 RUSS; Jul 26, 2006 at 04:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Vadim @ MBLN
M5RUS, this will not help. CE will still come on. Secondary cats run too cold for the O2s to work. You will need Kleemann software to turn O2s off.
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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario
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Its up to you.. I mentioned before that removing the primary cats is good for 10rwhp - 15rwhp. If that is important to you, just remove them. If you dont care about that extra power then leave the cats the way they are.
I am not sure if relocating the O2 sensors to the rear cats will solve the problem or not.. Like Vadim told you before, those cats wont see as much heat as the primaries, so I am not sure if that would work.
If you are really worried about it, then, keep the primary cats, move the O2 sensors to the secondary cats and see if you get a check engine light.. If you get no check engine light after a week of driving, then remove the primary cats.
I am not sure if relocating the O2 sensors to the rear cats will solve the problem or not.. Like Vadim told you before, those cats wont see as much heat as the primaries, so I am not sure if that would work.
If you are really worried about it, then, keep the primary cats, move the O2 sensors to the secondary cats and see if you get a check engine light.. If you get no check engine light after a week of driving, then remove the primary cats.
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
Hey guys...I been told by people who makes those Header that I should keep the Cats and dont need to move them anywhere and that thos header will fit like that...
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Victor....I dont even know what to do ???
Of course I want extra Power 10 HP at the wheels but I dont want check engine light
Why dod you keep priomary cats you could remove them as well ???
Of course I want extra Power 10 HP at the wheels but I dont want check engine light
Why dod you keep priomary cats you could remove them as well ???
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Send your ECU to Kleemann and pay them $200.. They will disable the O2 sensors for you. Wait until you do ECU tuning and have it done at the same time. Then you can take off the cats.
For now, leave them alone if you dont want CEL.
For now, leave them alone if you dont want CEL.
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
Victor....I dont even know what to do ???
Of course I want extra Power 10 HP at the wheels but I dont want check engine light
Why dod you keep priomary cats you could remove them as well ???
Of course I want extra Power 10 HP at the wheels but I dont want check engine light
Why dod you keep priomary cats you could remove them as well ???
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Originally Posted by vrus
I am not sure if relocating the O2 sensors to the rear cats will solve the problem or not.. Like Vadim told you before, those cats wont see as much heat as the primaries, so I am not sure if that would work.
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Originally Posted by vrus
Send your ECU to Kleemann and pay them $200.. They will disable the O2 sensors for you. Wait until you do ECU tuning and have it done at the same time. Then you can take off the cats.
For now, leave them alone if you dont want CEL.
For now, leave them alone if you dont want CEL.
I think we are going to have big RS vs M vs AMG shout out..I want to be ready for it...
If my ECU will be reflshed again, then it will erase Kleemann software or not ???...Of I send my ECU from Kleeman, then its going to be full re-flash, they want 1700 EURO (around $2400) for it
When installing headers on E55, do we have to lower then engine ???
I dont know what to do
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Originally Posted by Grumpy666
If the secondary O2 sensors are heated (usually indicated by a 4-wire connector), they should work behind the secondary cats. Heated sensors don't rely on exhaust gasses as a heat source and come up to operating temperatures very quickly.
What do you think
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Originally Posted by M5 RUS
Vic the porblem is that I cant wait if I have some tuning parts already...I am installing HEADERs NEX and ordered pullies already...
I think we are going to have big RS vs M vs AMG shout out..I want to be ready for it...
If my ECU will be reflshed again, then it will erase Kleemann software or not ???...Of I send my ECU from Kleeman, then its going to be full re-flash, they want 1700 EURO (around $2400) for it
When installing headers on E55, do we have to lower then engine ???
I dont know what to do
I think we are going to have big RS vs M vs AMG shout out..I want to be ready for it...
If my ECU will be reflshed again, then it will erase Kleemann software or not ???...Of I send my ECU from Kleeman, then its going to be full re-flash, they want 1700 EURO (around $2400) for it
When installing headers on E55, do we have to lower then engine ???
I dont know what to do
Since those are not actual Kleeman headers, they may be different, but the Kleeman ones are not a straight bolt on and i do not know if anyone has been able to "fake" the sensor out, yet.
I do know of some that tried moving them and the light comes on, so I assume that they are not heated on their own.
Good luck and let us know.
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Originally Posted by jangy
Since those are not actual Kleeman headers, they may be different, but the Kleeman ones are not a straight bolt on and i do not know if anyone has been able to "fake" the sensor out, yet.
I do know of some that tried moving them and the light comes on, so I assume that they are not heated on their own.
Good luck and let us know.
I do know of some that tried moving them and the light comes on, so I assume that they are not heated on their own.
Good luck and let us know.
Looks like I either have to get Klemann ECU or keep Primary CATS...but I dont want to do neither
that sucks
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Originally Posted by M5 RUS
As Kleemann Germany told ME before...with installation of their headers exhaust temperatures drop from 880 to 760 degrees...My headder are also jet-hot coated, so temp should drop even more...
What do you think
What do you think
If the sensor is heated and you decide to move it, what you will need to worry about is the operation of the secondary cat. If it's not as efficient as the primary cat, then the secondary O2 sensor will cycle too fast and set a different code.
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Originally Posted by Grumpy666
If the headers are coated on the inside, I doubt that you will see a further reduction of exhaust gas temperatures. But, like I mentioned in my previous post, if the O2 sensor has a built-in heater, it won't matter - it will function normally.
If the sensor is heated and you decide to move it, what you will need to worry about is the operation of the secondary cat. If it's not as efficient as the primary cat, then the secondary O2 sensor will cycle too fast and set a different code.
If the sensor is heated and you decide to move it, what you will need to worry about is the operation of the secondary cat. If it's not as efficient as the primary cat, then the secondary O2 sensor will cycle too fast and set a different code.
Dont k
now what to do
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Going to install them tommorow...anymore tips ???
Will try to remove Primary CATS and place 02 sensors behind Secondary cats...
They are local SAuperchip tuners also, we will try to program O2 sensors, if there any faults...
Will try to remove Primary CATS and place 02 sensors behind Secondary cats...
They are local SAuperchip tuners also, we will try to program O2 sensors, if there any faults...
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As for Primary cats... I beleive you can still pass all test with one set on cats in US...
As for Russia...it doesnt matter...but lets not get off topics guys...
Those header that I have are actually bold on ones...so should I go for it and reomove Primary CATS or keep them ??? 10 HP at wheels is noticable
How would my ECU cope and A/F ratios be affected ???
As for Russia...it doesnt matter...but lets not get off topics guys...
Those header that I have are actually bold on ones...so should I go for it and reomove Primary CATS or keep them ??? 10 HP at wheels is noticable
How would my ECU cope and A/F ratios be affected ???
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Originally Posted by M5 RUS
As for Primary cats... I beleive you can still pass all test with one set on cats in US...
As for Russia...it doesnt matter...but lets not get off topics guys...
Those header that I have are actually bold on ones...so should I go for it and reomove Primary CATS or keep them ??? 10 HP at wheels is noticable
How would my ECU cope and A/F ratios be affected ???
As for Russia...it doesnt matter...but lets not get off topics guys...
Those header that I have are actually bold on ones...so should I go for it and reomove Primary CATS or keep them ??? 10 HP at wheels is noticable
How would my ECU cope and A/F ratios be affected ???
If you do not care if it is legal, then yes you can also easily get away with it.
