juicee63

I find it obsurd that so many members here have the ability to get new E63's and not only dive em but take em out on public roads and DRAG RACE? Seriously? When going to Porsche and looking at new 997 turbo's there is no way in HELL they let you even start the car? Yeah at MB dealerships I am sure many allow test drives but to allow customers to race the cars, this seems like pure fantasy IMO. Also how on earth can anyone here expect a car wit 0-a few hundred miles on the engine to run to full aspiration? All you guys taking her to the track while I respect and appreciate your post's there seems to be a real fundamental flaw in your test parameters. THE CAR's ENGINE IS limited in it's output. I think the results would be very different if the 63 was allowed time to warm up, not a week, or a few days but a few thousand miles, then run her. stock vs. stock the E63 should be very similar to the E55, atik slower a tik faster surely it will depend on the driver.

MBH

I hear you, when I purchased my '05 E55 I went out for a test drive in one with a salesman. No way were they going to let me go out alone or with some friend. When I purchased my '05 997S same deal, I had to test drive it with a salesman in the car at all times. What dealer in their right mind is going to throw the keys to a 90K + car and let them go???

Ted Baldwin

............Good point except that the same people you are talking about also did the same thing to their E55 and ran mid 12's in the 1/4 mile. They also did the same to the new M5 and ran a slowe time. These results have stood..........yes, even after "proper break in." There is something going on besides break in period. Some well respected car guys actually think that to get the best out of your car you should drive it like a bat out of hell once you take delivery then change the oil after 500 miles.


Ted

FlyByNight

I don't think this "flaw" has been overlooked... that's precisely WHY the E63 car has been driven... and continues to be... up to drag day. I don't know how many miles he has on it yet, but it’s definitely getting broken in, and won't be off the showroom floor. I will be sure to note the miles on it on 9/15.

Also, Ted is right... people did the same thing to 55s, M5s, and a whole host of other cars. I think the few thousand mile break-in theory is more controversial than the point you're trying to make. I buy my car and drive it like I stole it. All of them have been great performers. The gentle breaking in of a car that's only purpose is to perform is debatable. I mean, what do car mags do? ... do they say "ok, Chuck, go drive the car to Texas and back so we can test it fully broken in" or do they have asterisks next to all performance data that says "These tests were done with only 600 miles on the car, so they are probably not accurate"? When the new 599 rolls out, will they go put it on a 2000 mile treadmill? I just doubt it, sorry...

Most of these high performance engines have bench time before they are ever dropped into a car… and the tolerances have become so much more exact, that breaking something in is a very brief period which likely occurs very very early on… not at 2000 miles…



Loren

Kev04C320

My sales guy let me floor the beast when I test drove mine, it has about 20 miles or less on the odometer at that time.

chiromikey

absolutely.

break-in procedures have not changed in decades while technology regarding machining tolerances has. i think a lot of break-in procedure is myth left over from the old days...it's just hard for people to let go of something that dad told them and was right about 30 years ago. imho, the only thing that really needs to be broken in on a modern engine are the rings and they're broken in by load (hard accell and decell), and they're broken in within the first 100 miles. yes this is my opinion but as ted said there are enough well respected engine builders that can show dyno proof to support an immediate and hard break-in procedure.

of course, this has nothing to do with the idea that there could be ecu limitations during early milage of the e63 preventing full power. how juicee55 can state with such certainty that "THE CAR's ENGINE IS limited in it's output" is beyond me cause i'm fairly certain he doesn't have any factual knowledge to back that up. i'm not saying he's wrong (and i hope he isn't) but lets be straight about it.

Fikse

the only way "breaking in" an E63 wil result in a trap speed of 108MPH to go to 115MPH like the E55's, will be if the cars' comptuer is deliberately holding the car back due to a mileage limitiation.....

possible? sure..... not likely though.....

juicee63

I was told by a salseman the ecu restricted performance, I guess I took it as fact. The point I am trying to make is no way in HELL any dealership would allow me to have a brand new E63 for the weekend to go out and race it. A test drive with a sales rep in the vehicle is the only thing I have experienced in my area. When I questioned the sales staff @ BHMB the comment on the ECU was made seemingly to squash my hopes of getting a real good read on the potential power. Also note there is no possibility the sales staff would allow me with or without a sale rep in the car tp break the law and speed on public roadways. Floor it maybe, but take it up to 135 mph? I guess I am just questioning how you folks are getting E63's off the showroom floors w/o actually purchasing the vehicle? I know Derek and others here are seasoned professional drivers and I trust the review but if what the sales staff at MBBH is correct an ECU reset or reprogram would be necessary to allow full throttle response in the early driving stages. The overseas test's of the 63 show it a bit faster than the 55, are we discounting the tests?

jangy

My dealer will let me take ANY car off the lot and keep it for a few hours as long as it is not already spoken for. In fact, I tried to get the E63 that Jeff (2k6e55) ordered yesterday and the only reason it was rejected was that they think Jeff may be buying it. Don't always doubt everything.

RJC

Please explain what you mean by this, just want to be sure .

juicee63

Really? with no financial commitment? Jeez I guess I do not have the juice I though I had. That would be incredible to be allowed to drive around a 100k car for a few hours without the sales rep present. What dealer is this ?I would love to send them my business if this is the dealership's policy

dragonAMG

+1 Same here. Everyone at my company buys their MB's from one specific salesman. I have personally purchased 3 cars from him. If I want to take the E63 out for a spin, he'll have no problem throwing me the keys. Just because you don't command that type of respect at your MB dealer, don't assume nobody else does.

jangy

It is Hoehn in Carlsbad. I took a new S550 home for the weekend, an ML500 (when just out), plenty of used SL65 and 55s, etc. I also took both my '05 and '06 E55s before I bought them.

Keep in mind that I average a new MB every year, so they know me pretty well by now. I also bring them plenty of sales, especially AMGs so they do take care of me. I'm sure i am not the only one they treat that way, but they very much push the "family" deal. My wife is simply not a car shopper, so the only way to have her check em out is to let me take one home.

juicee63

I was told the ECU limited output, performance and not to expect it to match my used E55's speed initially but that in time the car would beat the 55 off the line due to the smoother delivery of power to the wheels. I guess I just figured this was accurate info perhaps a pitch

zumbalak

Well my Porsche dealer gave me the keys for two days in a row and I test drove every car I wanted (except the 911 Turbo - as I was not even interested in that car).

Cayman S, 911 Base, 911 CS, 911 4S.

Actually the first day I was there looking for cars, I went about 1 hour before they were about to close, the dealer gave me the keys to a 911, and said we will close in 1 hour. Meaning you can drive for an hour but don't forget to bring the car before then

I drove for about 45 minutes. The next day, same thing as well, in not a single time the sales person was with me in the car, he was not even willing to be in the car, asked me (with my gf) to drive the car around, and did not even bother saying a single thing. Even we went to eat lunch, he said take 911 CS to lunch, and gave the keys

Awesome dealer experience, without a doubt. I always liked Porsche dealers

juicee63

The liability of such actions is immense, any dealership throwing you the keys on "respect" and letting you go for an extended test drive in a new vehicle is an incredible relationship. Wish I had the "respect" you do. There is a significant difference between a "spin" and a race with another vehicle. I am not questioning the "test" drive just the fact you guys are allowed to put miles on the car and drive them for extended times and then simply return em. Sounds nice , consider yourself LUCKY as the rest of us common folk have to sit with a monkey.

JLP

If you have a good relationship with your salesperson you can ask for a "BCA" ( borrowed car agreement) and fill out the form providing your own insurance and how long you will be gone. I've done it before but you typically have to be a very good customer in order to get an AMG car on a BCA. Standard cars are easy to do.

juicee63

Thanks I will try this upon my next visit. Appreciate the insight and terminolgy. I think it will still be difficult but it is worth an attempt. Thanks

jangy

Oh yeah, sorry for the confusion. They treat it just like a loaner. i still fill out the paperwork. they already have my ID and insurance on file.

juicee63

Thanks for the clarification. Have you driven the 63? I likely will go back and see if I can borrow it for 24 hours. Just cant fathom the factory stating 0-100km in 4.5 and Edmonds giving a 4.2 0-60 and calling it CONSERVATIVE. I guess it is time to see for myself by driving one. Seems likely we will see some real legal problems if the car does not start performing to the specs put out by the factory.

jangy

Yes, i have driven one a few times. The first couple were AMG "show" cars, but the most recent was a dealer car. It had 4 adults (one being a saleswoman) in it at the time. I personally am not a fan. Main reasons is lack of low end grunt and dead steering. Other than that, it is actually a nice ride. i love the dark interior.

JLP

Unless you are a very special client 24 hours may be a bit of a stretch, typically a few hours is standard practice.

2K6E55

It's all depends on how strong your relationship is with your dealer (upper management). I can take the car out for a few hours driving around town and they wont have any problem with it.

zdkdeeier493

Your problem is that you're going to Mercedes-Benz of Beverly Hills. I don't know if you've had good experiences there or not but all I get from them are rediculous rouge charges, a smug attitude and the cold shoulder whenever I try to ask a question that is at all technical in nature.

That being said, it was at MBBH that I test drove the 63 today and when the saleswoman said "You drive so conservatively, usually I drive these cars as fast as I can," I took that as an invitation to really see what the 63 could do. Given, I doubt she would let me drag with someone but I was doing some serious 0-80mph pulls in that thing and she was all smiles. Knowing those MBBH jackasses I'm surprised she wasn't kind enough to report me to the Police after I left.

P.S. Is that a Koenigsegg in your avatar?

enzom

Actually, a Porsche salesman from Bergen County let me take 2 911's out for test drives by myself in 1996. I was 25 years old. He let me take them home and out on the highway for an hour each. I did not buy a 911 then, but if I decide that I am going to pull the trigger, I am going to find this former salesperson (he later became the g.m. for another Porsche dealer) and buy it from him if his price is close to the best deal I can get elsewhere.