rake55

There has been a lot of talk on this forum regarding speculation that the new 6.3 liter motor isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Does anyone find it strange that Car and Driver, Road & Track and Motor Trend have not done a road test on any of the new vehicles equipped with the new 6.3 liter motor? Don’t the 3 major car magazines usually sample and road test new vehicles well before their release and well before they start showing up on dealer lots. Automobile magazine did a comparison test between the E63 and its BMW and Audi competitors yet they only drove the cars and used the manufactures estimates.

Is AMG keeping the 6.3 from the press because the numbers will reveal that this engine is only marginally more powerful than the naturally aspirated 5.5 liter engine? DerekFSU only managed a 13.1 second quarter mile in his E63. I have not been impressed with 2 separate E63’s that I drove. I think all the speculation that the 6.3's are under performing because their motors have not been properly broken in is hogwash. I think AMG knows the 6.3 is not delivering the punch they promised and they are purposely keeping it from the media.

The CLK 63, ML 63, CLS 63 and E63 have been in this country and sitting in the VPC’s for over 3 months and they started arriving at dealers over a month ago. Why have none of the major car magazines been able to conduct their own independent road tests?

Not a sermon, just a thought.

DerekFSU

13.01 buddy! Don't rob me of my 9/10th's!

rake55

My bad. Sorry.

PKE55AMG

Don't get me wrong here. E63 is not a stepback by all means it's just not a giant leap as we come to expect from AMG over the years.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...IMHO it's a "gap" vehicle just like C43 had served its purpose well.
I'll wait for the next E either be an E63K or E63TT...but in the meanwhile I'm perfectly happy with my E55K.

norb

I believe it.

AMG_55

as is said in dereks thread

i drove a ml63 w/ a little over 130mi on it and it felt at least as fast as my clk55, which is a low 13 sec. car.

i will try to make a vid tonight and post it up

OzE55

Shouldn't that be 9 hundreths?

IanSL55

Even if they develop a TT version of the 6.3 (doubtful), the biggest and baddest engines likely won't find their way into the E series. You're going to have to step up to a CL or SL for the real beasts. I think it's more likely that MB FI's that slick new 5.5 that powers the 550's or uses something different altogether.

~ Ian

Vadim @ FD

Having driven over 20 different 55s, from stock to Stage II, during R&D at evosport, I have sort of developed a "seat of the pants" feel for what kind of power the car puts down.

Over the last month I have driven a CLK63, a CLS63 and two E63s.

My rear end tells me that 55 and 63 are very close. No gay jokes please.

63s low end TQ is no doubtly softer vs 55, but the top end is better and a joy to use and listen to.

In the end we need to get more scientific testing in a form of a dyno and/or ETs from other 63s.

Until than, with exception of Derek, we are flying by the seats of our pants and end up making bashing and silly comments at each other.

Why? We are all adults here.

I am working on getting a dyno done very shortly. I will also be talking to several of our techs to see if they have any info. In addition I am doing some training at MBUSA in SoCal, so I will try to pick their brain on the subject.

Meanwhile, lets see what kind of numbers guys get at Fontana on 15th.

rake55

Vadim, I look forward to seeing what you uncover.

DerekFSU

Only below the equator and in East Germany.

DerekFSU

In the hopes of it being limited in some fashion, how would that be measured? It it's only in the low gears (which I doubt because a 2.01 60' is not HORRIBLE), then can you dyno 1st or second gear or would tire spin be a problem?

Vadim @ FD

Yes, it can be done. Properly strapped, tire spin can be controlled.

Germancar1

Gotta love conspiracy theories. They rarely make any sense or have any meaning. Just because the U.S. mags haven't tested anything yet doesn't mean there is something going on. Each and every Mercedes product for 2007, except for the C and SLK has a new engine variant, been facelifted or is all new. For months now there has been one MB after another in all of the major publications. If anything is being held back it is because they're all gettting ready to do some comparison tests. Just think about all the new Benzes that haven't been tested yet, the CLK550, CLK63, ML63, R63, E550, E63, CLS63, CLS550. The GL450, S600, SL550 and S550 have just all made their rounds at Motor Trend and Car and Driver within the last few months so it takes time folks. You'll see a E63 vs. S6 vs M5 vs Quattroporte Sport GT or something like that soon enough and you know the new "550" versions of the E/CLS are going to be tested, particularly the E550 vs. 550i. Time folks, time.

M

sly55

speaking of conspiracy's, did we ever get CONCLUSIVE dyno evidence about the 55 recall/reflash thingy? Id like to see one conspiracy settled before moving on to another one!!!

stevebez

You could use a dyno that bolts onto the rear axle (i.e. wheels come off and the two dyno feeds bolt onto the rear hubs) instead of using wheels on a drum ...

This dyno method is the most accurate to my mind .... eliminates differences in tyres between cars and also .... slippage... You also get a more accurate reading of drivetrain loss on run down...

Anyone dyno their E55's using this method ?

i.e this Dyno ...
http://www.rototest.com/rototest-dynamometer.php

stevebez

The OBDII data also gives an engine load indicator output ... I think the output is 0-100 (I guess) ... if this is anything less than 100 in any gear then we will know you are being restricted or not .... may be a very cheap and easy way to check it the car out.

Not sure how they work this number out but .... mbe fuel burned ... dunno ??? any thots ???

Ted Baldwin

.............I don't think a dyno will answer the question. I don't think the E63 is lower in HP than what MB said. I think you hit the nail on the head.....the car is slower in the low end and probably a beast at the high end. Basically, the E63 is a performance clone of the M5. MB/AMG went after the M5 and appear to have succeeded, but they don't understand their own customers. All the E63 needs now is a manual transmission and it can be sold at BMW dealerships.

Ted

WayneE

If you weren't spinning, a 2.01 is pretty bad. A stock W211 E55 will run almost .25 quicker from a dig, with traction.

What is the gearing for the E55 vs. E63 (final drive and tranny)? Where does the converter stall on each car? Did MB tighten up the converter on the E63 to improve drivetrain loss and driveability? That change, along with gearing, may account for some of the sluggish performance off the line.

Pacific NW Guy

Being involved in Marketing/Sales what gets me the most is the lack of tenacity put into the launch. Does not seem to be a great push to get the new engine in front of the public. Auto shows are one thing but I have not seen anything as far as magazine advertising or anything that reaches the end user. Maybe I am issing it but if I was launching what was to be the new beginning for AMG I would put out some serious press!

DerekFSU

While sub 2 60' times are certainly possible and frequent for fast 55's, I'm not sure they are the rule. If you believe that the average E55 runs around 12.5, then that's about a 2.0 60' time. If you check out our boy's www.dragtimes.com, you'll see LOTS of sub 2 60' times for E's running well under 12.5. But those in the 12.5 range usually run about 2.0 for the 60 which is what I expected the 63 to run on stock Contis and no tire pressure adjustments.

mclarenm8d

I definitely think you may be on to something with the torque converter ... although my thought would be "tighter" relative to the 55 vs 63 torque peak and output.

The TC lock-up may also be relatively more aggressive. With seven gears, a sport mode lock-up in second might be enough to bog the car down.

On the street (which is all I've done), my CL55 feels substantially quicker and more beastly in manual mode once it is rolling. However, from a dead stop sport mode is definitely better. In manual mode, I believe the aggressive TC lock-up in first bogs the motor ... so it either takes FOREVER to get rolling and out of first gear, or the tires are up in smoke.

Getting out of first gear from a dead stop in sport mode is quick as I would expect for the torque our cars have.

Vadim @ FD

Dyno is the answer. Two cars with the same HP and same weight will trap in 1/4 mile very close. E55s on average are in 115 range, so far one E63 that hit the drags is at 108. 7 mph is about 85HP deficit.

Stock E55s are around 420 RWHP, E63 should be the same or very close. If we are getting 340-350 RWHP than we have our answer.

chiromikey

yes. i've discussed my dyno results for my bone stock 55 and there are others with modded cars that have discussed theirs...and others further that are choosing not to discuss the problem at all. the results are as conclusive as can be without having a dyno run immidiately before and immediately after the flash.

it still doesn't settle the conspiracy, but it does prove changes took place in some vehicles.

Turtle25

I don't really approve of all these conspiracy theories. You know what car I'm waiting for a big mag road test before the 63s? The Veyron!