vrus

Yeah.. I am in a real tough spot.. In order to verify the gains I need to pick a starting point and go from there.. I just dont want to tear down my motor 3 times for the sake of science...

I am still trying to decide the best way to approach this, but, that was my initial idea.. Maybe if I had another donor car we could test 2 different variations simultaneously.. We'll see.

Mikey,

No worries! Tuning is taken care of!

I will be offering all future products as a package deal WITH custom tuning to go along with the mods!

2 choices will be available for tuning:

1) I'll arrange to have someone fly to a customer location and do a spot-on custom tune for each person on a dyno.

2) ECU will be tuned and sent back/forth through Fedex.

Thanks Josh! Everything will be tested of course. I may end up starting with Stage 2 first on my own car since it is the middle one and see how much power it makes.

I'll look at doing Stage 1 & 3 for another car. Maybe I'll put Stage 3 on Derek's car with the TT kit and give that a whirl!!

Derek & I discussed this very topic when we chatted about the TT kit.. I said the exact same thing to Derek that Grumpy just posted. He is spot on.. We know based on Derek's testing that stock fuel system, drivetrain will handle 750hp.. we just don't know for how long.

The tranny is the weak link.. I've got the connection in Germany to have the EGS reprogrammed to have the torque limiters removed (the same thing that Renntech charges $1500 for) and I can have the transmission upgraded for added strength and durability.

Jakpro1

Just some AMG fun facts for ya. This from the dealer mind you, but he quoted me 3500$ PER head. Just about passed out.

7K for 2 pieces of alum. WOW. Was thinking of helping you out Victor and snagging 2 heads and getting your guys cracking, but I gotta go change the underwear. Be right back.

vrus

I told you... I priced them out and they wanted $4,200 each side up here.

Thanks Jim! I appreciate the gesture.. I've got the starting set of heads to work from.. We'll see how that goes first and then go from there..

I found a donor car.. My buddy John who has one hell of a FAST stock E55 (right down to the failing intercooler pump and STOCK filters) is going to have the heads installed on his car and we are gonna see how much power over stock we can get without touching the tune or anything else..

That will really prove how much of a bolt-on these things will be.

GTA23109a

Are all M113 heads the same?? I.E. will E500 heads suffice for cores??

Victor: did you get my last PM ??

EUROTEK//AMG

dam boost junky's!!..lol....

vrus

I am not sure.. I know the W210 heads are supposedly the same as the W211.. Not sure about the E500??

As for PM.. I replied to the last one you sent.. I'll go through them again just to make sure it didnt get burried in there somewhere..

You hit the nail on the head with that one... boost junkies is what we are.

PTE

I check today @ MB of Ft.Pierce, The parts Guy, Marc Galen was very helpful. So we looked at a M113 engine 2004 model year
The M113 weather a SL/E/S/CLK/CLS 500
P/N --- A113 010 20 20 Left Cyl head
P/N --- A113 010 21 20 Right Cyl head

The M113 SL/E/S/CLK/CLS/C 5.5 AMG , N/A or Kompressor
P/N --- A113 010 20 20 Left Cyl head
P/N --- A113 010 21 20 Right Cyl head
So they are the same casing , same CC volume , But all 5.5 s have different valve springs (Bee Hive ) shape. Compression is changed for each model, by piston dome & or engine stroke
Hope that helps ___PTE___

mbamg06e55

Victor,

Put me in rotation for at least stage II. I want to see what the outcome of the results of stage III before committing to stage III.

By the way if you need a extra set of bare heads I can get them for $3800 brand new.

D

vrus

Thanks Patrick! Much appreciated.

I now have 2 sets of heads to work with..

I have 1 complete 55K AMG motor and 1 set of bare heads..

SLR Cams & Cam gears arrived..

We are still working on a strategy on what exactly to do with the heads..

I am going to create a separate thread on M113 Motor Teardown & buildup.. It will highlight the complete teardown of a M113 Motor and then I'll show progress as we build it back up from the bare block..

Thanks D!! I've got 2 sets right now.. I figured if anyone wanted a set I'd have them available..

I'll let 1 set of the heads go for $2,000 bare (for the pair) if anyone wants them. They are straight & true.. No cracks.

ProjectC55

My buddy has a few blown M113 motors and two good one's. 2 good C43 motors,one blown E55K motor and two blown 5.0L M113 motors.

topless in SB

VRUS: Any further updates on progress from the heads?

Thanks,
Mick

vrus

Hey Mick,

Heads are done.. Valves are on their way.. should be here next week..

I went with a bigger exhaust & intake valve...

New cams with higher lift than what is currently available are in the works.. Lobe separation angle changed slightly also.. A whole bunch of things happening in tandem right now which I will share soon.

Assembly starts right after that. I've been keeping it under wraps because I have some "engine" work being done also..

Will post pics soon.

vrus

Heads

Just wanted to post an update as to what I've been up to lately...

The guy that is doing my work has been in the business a long time (20+ years) and he builds alot of motors.. I used to deal with him back in the early 90s when I had my 5.0 DECH Mustang (blower, 357 Windsor, the works).. He did some head work & engine work for me, and I ended up reconnecting with him some 10yrs later.

My heads are done and waiting to be assembled. These heads that I am doing right now are using oversized valves, race port, multi-angle valve job, etc, etc.. Ferrea made the valves for us and they showed up last week.. I went with 39mm Intake and 43.5mm Exhaust valves. These are pretty much the best valves money can buy.

Here are a couple of pics of the beauties:




For this set of heads, I am using what I call a Stage 1 cam.. It is an SLR profile cam.. I am working with a few friends to produce a Stage 2 cam which will have slightly narrower LSA and a little more lift.. Hopefully this will unlock some more power in these babies.. We'll see...

I went a little nuts on this build and decided to purchase a completely new set of valvetrain parts just to be safe.. We have new springs, spring perches, cups, retainers, locks, rockers, shafts, everything... Depending on the mileage on your heads you may not have to go to this extreme.

Below is a breakdown of the costs for the build so that people who are contemplating this type of modification will be aware of what kind of funds you will need to get this done properly:

(All prices listed in USD$$)

- Spare set of 55K castings .......................................... $5,000

- Dissassemble Cylinder heads, jet clean, bead blasting,
Port & Polish, Multi-angle valve work, surfacing, re-assembly, etc..... $3,025

- Custom Ferrea Valves ............................................... $2,400

- New Mercedes Benz Valve Train components (springs, spring perches,
cups, retainers, locks, rockers, shafts, etc) ...................... $5,300

- SLR Profile cams .................................................. . $2,375

Total so far .................................................. ..... $18,100

Now... Keep in mind that you dont have to go the route of buying the new valvetrain components or buying a spare set of castings.. If you just wanted to tear down your existing motor, pull your heads and get the work done, we are talking about $3,025 for the work + $2,400 for the valves = $5,425USD... I personally think that if you are going to do the port work with the bigger valves you should do the cams also.

Once these heads are assembled and installed in my car, I will be doing another set with just the race porting & polishing, multi-angle valve job.. This second set will retain the factory sized valves but will have the SLR Profile cams on them.. Once I flow test Set #1 and Set #2 we'll have a really good indication of whether the bigger valves really made a big difference.


Motor Build

At the same time that the heads were being done, I've been working quietly on an engine buildup... My goal was to build from the ground up a new all-out motor. My original mandate to the engine builder was to try and get me a 6.2L stroker out of the stock block. Here's what the block looks like torn down... Taking it apart was easy.. Anyone know how to put it back together now?? LOL..



The wall thickness of the cylinders leaves very little room for increasing bore. I was told we can safely go 20 over so we can make a 5.7L just by boring out the block and resleeving it. We decided to scrap the stroker idea.. This car makes boat-loads of torque already and really what I want is a fast revving, higher RPM motor. By boring it out to 5.7L and getting some custom pistons made (either Mahle or Wiseco.. haven't decided yet) and custom rods we can accomplish what I am after.. Besides, I am going to put 2 turbos on this sucker when its done so I dont need the stroker anyways..

The custom pistons take approx 4 - 5 weeks to get once we send the drawings and measurements... Once this motor is done, we will put a set of the race heads on it and put it in my car. I will get my ECU guy to fly over here and we'll tune it on the dyno... Once I've got that all squared away, the last step will be to TT the car... I think with this combination of 5.7L, race heads, and TT I should be able to hit 900hp ++...

It's going to be a fun buildup and I'll post more info as we get further along.

E55 RUSS

Nice...You going to build TT sysstem as well ???

What about you trainny ??? It wont hold all that POWER...

Finny

Awesome combination Victor

I've been looking at variable exhaust vane technology as used in the TT 997's which eliminates turbo lag by altering the exhaust vane at different revs.

Not sure how it's controlled but maybe someone can here enlighten us on the workings.

Apparently Garret have these units as off the shelf items.

stevebez

I would say hydraulic pressure linked to centrifugal force? As the turbine spins faster, pressure rises actuating a resitance and turning the vanes... getting them to do this at 800deg C is another story !

vrus

Hey Finny,

Thanks!

I am not sure if VVT tech is really necessary on our cars.. The big displacement of our cars should be able to spin some GT30R or GT35R nicely... With BB technology and lightweight ceramic impellers I dont think you need to go to the complexity of using VVT.

On my 993TT I put on a set of GT2 turbos which were basically K24 with modified impellers.. That was on a 3.6L motor and I had no lag.. Before I bolted the turbos on, I held one in my hand, and by simply blowing on the impeller it started to spin. When my car idled, it had enough airflow to turn the impellers.. You could hear the car whistling away... It was neat...

I am leaning towards a pair of GT30R to start.. I want to bolt on the turbos and leave the S/C in place first.. The S/C will get the car moving, and with the proper A/R sizing setup to build boost at 3,000RPM - 3,500RPM, the Turbos will provide pressurized air to the S/C in the mid RPM range so that the car has sufficient traction to handle the onslaught of boost. If this doesn't work out the way I want, then once the S/C is removed, I'll change the A/R on the Turbos so that they build boost at 1,400RPM.

I did some measurements while my car was on the hoist, and I can fit a set of GT30R just aft of the headers where the primary cats used to be.. 2 barrel intercoolers mounted on the rear firewall will take care of the chilling of the turbos before they converge into 1 pipe to enter the TB. It will all be hidden away in the back of the engine bay..

I'm just trying to figure out how to make a nice looking intake system to feed air to the turbos..

vrus

Tranny is taken care of... Well.. I think it is anyways... Wont know for sure until I try it out.. Looking at beefing up the diff and half-shafts and some other components..

Looking at a CF driveshaft also.. Not sure if I will do it or not, but we'll see..

blackbenzz

driveshaftshop.com

You have put ALOT of money into this project!

jmf003

Swee-e-e-e-et!

pshek

Might want to try out acpt.com. They were making a CF driveshaft for a mustang at my shop, that's how I found out about them. Should be good for +20-30HP from the reduced rotational mass of a CF driveshaft.

vrus

Thanks everyone! Talking to a 2 companies about the driveshaft and some other driveline parts that I want to replace with some 300M versions to handle the new power.

As for the heads.. All the new valvetrain was dropped off and the heads are being assembled.. Should be done by Wedn, Thurs.

Dropping off my Stage 1 cams (SLR profile) so they can bolt them up and do a flowbench test to see how much extra flow these heads picked up.

Also.. The R&D on the Stage 2 cams is complete.. We found a great setup. LSA, duration, and lift have all been modified.. This cam will idle a little lumpier than the current ones on the market but nothing too rough. It should boost power quite a bit based on the overlap and lift. We are going to make 2 sets of samples of the Stage 2 and they will be tested in 2 different cars with different setups.

After we get the flow numbers from the stage 1 cam, I will wait for the arrival of the Stage 2 cam and do another flow test.

Yacht Master

Sounds good Vrus,

Will you use the non bypass (SL) inercooler air horn?
Fresh air intakes, I fear between intakes and SLR coolers the hood as we know it may change.

topless in SB

Motor Build

At the same time that the heads were being done, I've been working quietly on an engine buildup... My goal was to build from the ground up a new all-out motor. My original mandate to the engine builder was to try and get me a 6.2L stroker out of the stock block. Here's what the block looks like torn down... Taking it apart was easy.. Anyone know how to put it back together now?? LOL..



The wall thickness of the cylinders leaves very little room for increasing bore. I was told we can safely go 20 over so we can make a 5.7L just by boring out the block and resleeving it. We decided to scrap the stroker idea.. This car makes boat-loads of torque already and really what I want is a fast revving, higher RPM motor. By boring it out to 5.7L and getting some custom pistons made (either Mahle or Wiseco.. haven't decided yet) and custom rods we can accomplish what I am after.. Besides, I am going to put 2 turbos on this sucker when its done so I dont need the stroker anyways..

I remember seeing the 55 and 63 blocks like this at the AMG factory.

vrus

Just wanted to post an update on what has been happening with this:

1) The heads development has been complete for a while now. Everything was fully assembled and tested with the stock cams, and the SLR cams. In the next week, I will be testing the VRP Stage 2 cams which are the more aggressive grind.. Higher lift, more overlap, and a change in LSA.. I'll post more details and pics once I get the cams in my hands.


2) I wanted to try and get some custom titanium parts to lighten up the valvetrain... These are non-existant for our cars.. No one makes anything custom. Becuase of time constraints, I purchased all new MB Valvetrain components and had those assembled onto the heads.. At the same time, we had a company contracted to make a set of Titanium valve spring retainers (I didnt know how long it would take so I didnt want to wait for them). We just received them last week.

Weighing the stock valve spring retainers resulted in 18.01Grams each. The titanium copy came out at 10.22Grams.

Most companies that sell these titanium retainers charge around $18 each.. We had to make 200 pieces in order for the company to do the work, and since I only needed 48 pieces for 2 sets of heads, we have 152 of them left.. LOL.. Anyone want to buy some titanium retainers?? $14.50/each.

Below is a pic of the retainer.. kind of boring, but, they are stronger and lighter and that's what I wanted..

The one on the left is the VRP Titanium retainer, the one on the right is a stock MB retainer.




3) A stock piston was sent off so that our custom piston for the 5.7L block can be made (waiting for these to arrive). Carillo is going to make us a nice rod to along with the piston. That will finish off the 5.7L block.. I am leaving the crank alone for now because I am not going to be changing stroke. The car will ultimately be in a Twin Turbo configuration so I dont want any increase of stroke.

The 5.7L block will be an iron sleeve setup.


4) If anyone knows where some blown bottom ends can be found, please let me know.. I'd like to buy a couple of them as cores. I am going to be making a turnkey 5.7L forged bottom end kit. Once the pistons or anything in the bottom end goes on these cars, you have to throw the motor away and buy a new one pre-assembled from MB. These cost $26,000CDN. As the cars get up there in mileage and age, you will inevitably need to do something to replace the worn pistons, sleeves, etc ( I see people are proactive and looking for complete motors just in case)..

Once my bottom end kit is ready, you can order the short block, or a long block with complete race ported heads.