E63 or m5
09-21-2006, 12:32 PM
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'15 E63S P30
E63 or m5
I currently own a CLK500, and would love to stay with the MB family. I'm about to upgrade to either the E63 or the M5 and wanted to see what your thoughts are. I realize this is a MB forum, but our firewall blocks access to the bmw forum I read.
I have read here that there are some questions of the E63 meeting factory specs in both RWHP and track times. That some people are getting about 100HP less than promised and that the E63 isn't much better than the E55.
I have read elsewhere that many owners of the M5 hate the SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox). Fortunately the 07 models will have a 6 speed manual tranny.
Which one should I get?
I have read here that there are some questions of the E63 meeting factory specs in both RWHP and track times. That some people are getting about 100HP less than promised and that the E63 isn't much better than the E55.
I have read elsewhere that many owners of the M5 hate the SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox). Fortunately the 07 models will have a 6 speed manual tranny.
Which one should I get?
09-21-2006, 12:54 PM
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'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
hmm
well you have been driving a CLK500 so obviously your not tracking the car right?
Find a used or new E55 ... there should still be a few on the lot.
Find a used or new E55 ... there should still be a few on the lot.
09-21-2006, 12:58 PM
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I currently own a CLK500, and would love to stay with the MB family. I'm about to upgrade to either the E63 or the M5 and wanted to see what your thoughts are. I realize this is a MB forum, but our firewall blocks access to the bmw forum I read.
I have read here that there are some questions of the E63 meeting factory specs in both RWHP and track times. That some people are getting about 100HP less than promised and that the E63 isn't much better than the E55.
I have read elsewhere that many owners of the M5 hate the SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox). Fortunately the 07 models will have a 6 speed manual tranny.
Which one should I get?
I have read here that there are some questions of the E63 meeting factory specs in both RWHP and track times. That some people are getting about 100HP less than promised and that the E63 isn't much better than the E55.
I have read elsewhere that many owners of the M5 hate the SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox). Fortunately the 07 models will have a 6 speed manual tranny.
Which one should I get?
If you are interested in 1/4 mile track times, please note that on the same day and (somewhat slippery) track, my E63 and the one M5 there were dead even in 1/4 mile times (ok....he was 9/1000s faster: less than 1/100th of a second!) in his best run vs my best run. They were as dead even as possible on that track and day.
The only other place I have seen a head-to-head test of these 2 cars, with published 1/4 mile times, is in AutoBild magazine. It puts the E63 ahead of the M5 in the quarter mile. See my thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/163298-e63-vs-e55-factory-speed-claims-truthful.html
I think the choice between these 2 fine cars comes down to personal preference. They seem to be very close in 1/4 mile times. I think the gap in handling between the M5 and E55 has been greatly reduced in the E63. If you are more of a track guy or someone who wants to feel the road, the M5 might be a better choice for you. For me, the SMG transmission was a deal killer with the M5. I would consider the 6 speed stick.
For me, I love the looks and ride of the E63, and have been very happy with my choice. Soon, I am sure that we will more feedback from magazines and others to come up with a better conclusion on the speed of the E63. You might want to wait a few weeks if you are on the fence. Ignore the jabber and pay attention to the legitimate testing.
09-21-2006, 01:06 PM
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06 EuroElites E55
i agree i found a 06 for 15 grand less than the E63 i figure if you wait a lil more for more 63s to pop up the 55s might go for even less. i realy dont like the way the M5 looks so that wouldnt even be in my choice. i do like the 63 but not in my budget. good luck.
09-21-2006, 01:07 PM
#5
If you are interested in 1/4 mile track times, please note that on the same day and (somewhat slippery) track, my E63 and the one M5 there were dead even in 1/4 mile times (ok....he was 9/1000s faster: less than 1/100th of a second!) in his best run vs my best run. They were as dead even as possible on that track and day.
The only other place I have seen a head-to-head test of these 2 cars, with published 1/4 mile times, is in AutoBild magazine. It puts the E63 ahead of the M5 in the quarter mile. See my thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=163298
I think the choice between these 2 fine cars comes down to personal preference. They seem to be very close in 1/4 mile times. I think the gap in handling between the M5 and E55 has been greatly reduced in the E63. If you are more of a track guy or someone who wants to feel the road, the M5 might be a better choice for you. For me, the SMG transmission was a deal killer with the M5. I would consider the 6 speed stick.
For me, I love the looks and ride of the E63, and have been very happy with my choice. Soon, I am sure that we will more feedback from magazines and others to come up with a better conclusion on the speed of the E63. You might want to wait a few weeks if you are on the fence. Ignore the jabber and pay attention to the legitimate testing.
The only other place I have seen a head-to-head test of these 2 cars, with published 1/4 mile times, is in AutoBild magazine. It puts the E63 ahead of the M5 in the quarter mile. See my thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=163298
I think the choice between these 2 fine cars comes down to personal preference. They seem to be very close in 1/4 mile times. I think the gap in handling between the M5 and E55 has been greatly reduced in the E63. If you are more of a track guy or someone who wants to feel the road, the M5 might be a better choice for you. For me, the SMG transmission was a deal killer with the M5. I would consider the 6 speed stick.
For me, I love the looks and ride of the E63, and have been very happy with my choice. Soon, I am sure that we will more feedback from magazines and others to come up with a better conclusion on the speed of the E63. You might want to wait a few weeks if you are on the fence. Ignore the jabber and pay attention to the legitimate testing.
100% agree. The HP question is bound to be answered. Even as it stands, I prefer the E63 to the M5.
09-21-2006, 01:10 PM
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04 sl55amg, 04 H2, 02 corvette Z06, 01 bmw 530i(Sold), E60 M5 (507hp)
Well, from experience, I the SMG really is not bad. Its just hard to get used to driving your "automatic" with MB and swithching to BMW smg. SMG is litterally your typical manual without a manual clutch. Yes, the car could roll back when starting uphill, but the manual states, pull the paddle to the lowest gear and accel. without rolling back. The automatic feature of the SMG shifts as if you were still driving a manual transmission car. It is not as smooth as the automatic transmission of the 55. My mother in law has an e55, and I just picked up an M5 so this opinion is strictly mine but from first hand experience. If you don't care for the looks of the M5, get the e55 maybe even 06 and get a discount off the MSRP. I think they are both evenly matched with regards to accel and speed but the M5 handles and turns better. The e55 is just a rocket. E63, well, I figured you've already read all the complaints.
09-21-2006, 02:14 PM
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I really have to laugh at people who hate on the SMG, as if somehow they were expecting it to perform like an automatic. Its about as close as you can get to a stick without the clutch, and I love it that way. Its not smooth, no manual ever is, suck it up and enjoy the violence.
Handling is superb, steering feel is amazing, brakes are top notch, and the iDrive is bearable. The dynamic seats with the Red Merino leather get the most compliments out of anything on the car, and its way stealthier than an AMG. Just my two cents. I personally wouldn't get a 63 over the M5, especially after reading the dyno numbers. However, a '55 has all the juice that the M5 lacks, and god do I miss torque.
Handling is superb, steering feel is amazing, brakes are top notch, and the iDrive is bearable. The dynamic seats with the Red Merino leather get the most compliments out of anything on the car, and its way stealthier than an AMG. Just my two cents. I personally wouldn't get a 63 over the M5, especially after reading the dyno numbers. However, a '55 has all the juice that the M5 lacks, and god do I miss torque.
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09-21-2006, 02:36 PM
#9
I really have to laugh at people who hate on the SMG, as if somehow they were expecting it to perform like an automatic. Its about as close as you can get to a stick without the clutch, and I love it that way. Its not smooth, no manual ever is, suck it up and enjoy the violence.
Handling is superb, steering feel is amazing, brakes are top notch, and the iDrive is bearable. The dynamic seats with the Red Merino leather get the most compliments out of anything on the car, and its way stealthier than an AMG. Just my two cents. I personally wouldn't get a 63 over the M5, especially after reading the dyno numbers. However, a '55 has all the juice that the M5 lacks, and god do I miss torque.
Handling is superb, steering feel is amazing, brakes are top notch, and the iDrive is bearable. The dynamic seats with the Red Merino leather get the most compliments out of anything on the car, and its way stealthier than an AMG. Just my two cents. I personally wouldn't get a 63 over the M5, especially after reading the dyno numbers. However, a '55 has all the juice that the M5 lacks, and god do I miss torque.
I personally had no expectations of the SMG as to performing as an automatic. I don't care for it because I want an auto for my daily driver...and if I want fast, I want to row the gears in a sports car. I'm not really a fan of any of the paddle shifting/e-gear/SMG products. As an slushbox, they SUCK...and as a true manual tranny, they SUCK...I said, "with all due respect..."
The handling appears to be typical BMW (great for a sedan) but it's pro's cannot overcome my opinion of the looks of the car. I prefer the look of my 2001 M5 much more.
Finally, though I think the BMW is absolutely right on with it's mission of a sports sedan, it is definetely not for everyone. No can deny the looks are controversial, love it or leave it, or just plain not for everyone...and the SMG is for the niche market of those who like to pretend they race F1 in a fat 4-door, sedan...IMHO...
09-21-2006, 03:23 PM
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'15 E63S P30
After reading some of the thoughts on the SMG, I guess proof will be in test driving it. Question: Would you rather have the SMG or a 6 speed MG?
09-21-2006, 03:27 PM
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Personally, I LOVED the SMG in my M3 and driving the M5 did not feel much different. It does have a bit of a learning curve. Contrary to what people say, it can be driven smoothly, but like a true manual, you need to spend time learning how to do so. Of course, it does have it's violent side, like Cylinder Head says 
, but only when you want it to.
That said, I wanted something different in my sedan, so when I got tired of the M3, the E55 was a logical choice as I wanted a softer ride (we were expecting our first child), more room and more power. The E55 is like the modern day equivalent of the Buick GS455, "fast with class". I can't comment on the E63 but, to be honest, considering how AMG was gunning for the M5 with it (high revving, less torque), I think it just ended up being a watered-down wannabe M5, which is not at all what I am looking for in an M-B. So that said, if you want a manual or can appreciate SMG (me personally, I like the SMG), I would choose the M5 over E63 if given the choice.
, but only when you want it to. That said, I wanted something different in my sedan, so when I got tired of the M3, the E55 was a logical choice as I wanted a softer ride (we were expecting our first child), more room and more power. The E55 is like the modern day equivalent of the Buick GS455, "fast with class". I can't comment on the E63 but, to be honest, considering how AMG was gunning for the M5 with it (high revving, less torque), I think it just ended up being a watered-down wannabe M5, which is not at all what I am looking for in an M-B. So that said, if you want a manual or can appreciate SMG (me personally, I like the SMG), I would choose the M5 over E63 if given the choice.
09-21-2006, 03:35 PM
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2009 C63 Black on Black
Read the problems the M5 guys are having with SMG
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81080http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81141
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81126
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81099
The threads are very significant and you should be aware of these issues!
Good luck in whatever you decide!
09-21-2006, 03:58 PM
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As others have said, your specific priorities and preferences will play a significant role. Although the two cars are viewed as direct competitors, they are designed with different priorities in mind.
Alghough the press is rarely unanimous, the recent CAR comparison of the M5, E63 and S6 describes the differences well -- http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80752.
The SMG is maligned mostly by those who have either no or very little experience with it. The vast (and I do mean vast) majority of actual owners of the e60 M5 find it to be a fantastic transmission and significantly superior to the traditional manual. I am among them. It is a large improvement over the previous SMG generations. As with any new technology, a higher incidence of issues will arise, but that is what a warranty is for. I have not had a single problem after nearly a year and over 11,000 miles. However, do not buy the M5 if your priority is a smooth shifting automatic mode. The M5's auto mode is a welcome feature and works well, but no one will ever confuse it with a traditional automatic, especially the terrific units that MB uses. The engine was designed to mate with the SMG III, and it is a perfect match. The manuals have not yet arrived, but I would suggest a manual M5 only to someone who simply must have a clutch pedal and yank a gearshift lever to be satisfied. The SMG is easy to use, it is tremendous fun, and it is far superior in any performance driving.
The handling of the M5 simply is unmatched by any sedan, and by very few dedicated sports cars. If handling, balance, and precision are important to you, you should consider the M5 carefully.
In any case, you are deciding between two phenomenal cars, and cannot make a bad choice. Good luck with your decision and let me know if you have more specific questions.
Alghough the press is rarely unanimous, the recent CAR comparison of the M5, E63 and S6 describes the differences well -- http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80752.
The SMG is maligned mostly by those who have either no or very little experience with it. The vast (and I do mean vast) majority of actual owners of the e60 M5 find it to be a fantastic transmission and significantly superior to the traditional manual. I am among them. It is a large improvement over the previous SMG generations. As with any new technology, a higher incidence of issues will arise, but that is what a warranty is for. I have not had a single problem after nearly a year and over 11,000 miles. However, do not buy the M5 if your priority is a smooth shifting automatic mode. The M5's auto mode is a welcome feature and works well, but no one will ever confuse it with a traditional automatic, especially the terrific units that MB uses. The engine was designed to mate with the SMG III, and it is a perfect match. The manuals have not yet arrived, but I would suggest a manual M5 only to someone who simply must have a clutch pedal and yank a gearshift lever to be satisfied. The SMG is easy to use, it is tremendous fun, and it is far superior in any performance driving.
The handling of the M5 simply is unmatched by any sedan, and by very few dedicated sports cars. If handling, balance, and precision are important to you, you should consider the M5 carefully.
In any case, you are deciding between two phenomenal cars, and cannot make a bad choice. Good luck with your decision and let me know if you have more specific questions.
09-21-2006, 04:26 PM
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2009 C63 Black on Black
These are posts by Actual owners of SMG
As others have said, your specific priorities and preferences will play a significant role. Although the two cars are viewed as direct competitors, they are designed with different priorities in mind.
Alghough the press is rarely unanimous, the recent CAR comparison of the M5, E63 and S6 describes the differences well -- http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80752.
The SMG is maligned mostly by those who have either no or very little experience with it. The vast (and I do mean vast) majority of actual owners of the e60 M5 find it to be a fantastic transmission and significantly superior to the traditional manual. I am among them. It is a large improvement over the previous SMG generations. As with any new technology, a higher incidence of issues will arise, but that is what a warranty is for. I have not had a single problem after nearly a year and over 11,000 miles. However, do not buy the M5 if your priority is a smooth shifting automatic mode. The M5's auto mode is a welcome feature and works well, but no one will ever confuse it with a traditional automatic, especially the terrific units that MB uses. The engine was designed to mate with the SMG III, and it is a perfect match. The manuals have not yet arrived, but I would suggest a manual M5 only to someone who simply must have a clutch pedal and yank a gearshift lever to be satisfied. The SMG is easy to use, it is tremendous fun, and it is far superior in any performance driving.
The handling of the M5 simply is unmatched by any sedan, and by very few dedicated sports cars. If handling, balance, and precision are important to you, you should consider the M5 carefully.
In any case, you are deciding between two phenomenal cars, and cannot make a bad choice. Good luck with your decision and let me know if you have more specific questions.
Alghough the press is rarely unanimous, the recent CAR comparison of the M5, E63 and S6 describes the differences well -- http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80752.
The SMG is maligned mostly by those who have either no or very little experience with it. The vast (and I do mean vast) majority of actual owners of the e60 M5 find it to be a fantastic transmission and significantly superior to the traditional manual. I am among them. It is a large improvement over the previous SMG generations. As with any new technology, a higher incidence of issues will arise, but that is what a warranty is for. I have not had a single problem after nearly a year and over 11,000 miles. However, do not buy the M5 if your priority is a smooth shifting automatic mode. The M5's auto mode is a welcome feature and works well, but no one will ever confuse it with a traditional automatic, especially the terrific units that MB uses. The engine was designed to mate with the SMG III, and it is a perfect match. The manuals have not yet arrived, but I would suggest a manual M5 only to someone who simply must have a clutch pedal and yank a gearshift lever to be satisfied. The SMG is easy to use, it is tremendous fun, and it is far superior in any performance driving.
The handling of the M5 simply is unmatched by any sedan, and by very few dedicated sports cars. If handling, balance, and precision are important to you, you should consider the M5 carefully.
In any case, you are deciding between two phenomenal cars, and cannot make a bad choice. Good luck with your decision and let me know if you have more specific questions.
09-21-2006, 05:06 PM
#16
...it's a great sports sedan but the list is long of dedicated sports cars that make it look like a walrus on the track.Other than that, I agree with your sentiments. Two different types of specific performance goals between MB and BMW...it's great to have choices.
09-21-2006, 07:57 PM
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get the M5..... its a good car.
Eventhough I know you started this thread with all good intentions, it has been discussed many, many times. Most of the AMG owners will have nothing but praise about their cars and most of the M onwers will do the same.
its like saying "Rep or Democrat"?
"pepsi or coke"?
"Mac or PC"
Pick the best product for your personal needs.
Eventhough I know you started this thread with all good intentions, it has been discussed many, many times. Most of the AMG owners will have nothing but praise about their cars and most of the M onwers will do the same.
its like saying "Rep or Democrat"?
"pepsi or coke"?
"Mac or PC"
Pick the best product for your personal needs.
09-21-2006, 08:19 PM
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2005 E55, 1959 220s Cabriolet, some other stuff too...
After getting jerked around with buying my last new Mercedes, I would highly recommend that you buy a pre-owned e55 or e63 from the original owner. You can talk with the person, get a feel for how they are and how they cared for the vehicle, etc. All dealers are real pieces of work, and the only thing they are interested in is extracting the most cash possible out of your ***, period. They rant and rave about customer service and all they are doing is losing very good customers with their attitudes and their lack of customer service focus.
Just avoid it all together, and save yourself $15,000.00! This is what I will do next time and the time after that and the time after that...
They will learn over time. Mercedes will lose a sale on a new car since you will buy a used one. They have lost many sales just with me over the next 25 years.
Just avoid it all together, and save yourself $15,000.00! This is what I will do next time and the time after that and the time after that...
They will learn over time. Mercedes will lose a sale on a new car since you will buy a used one. They have lost many sales just with me over the next 25 years.
09-22-2006, 12:25 AM
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You misunderstood. My point was that most of actual e60 M5 owners very much like the SMG, and that the majority of the criticisms regarding its functionality has been levied by those with little or no experience with the car. The reliability issue is a separate one, albeit one worth considering.
09-22-2006, 12:29 AM
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2009 C63 Black on Black
correction noted!!
You misunderstood. My point was that most of actual e60 M5 owners very much like the SMG, and that the majority of the criticisms regarding its functionality has been levied by those with little or no experience with the car. The reliability issue is a separate one, albeit one worth considering.
09-23-2006, 12:35 AM
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
True.
Also, I agree that stick shifts are the most fun while automatics make great rides for when you're feeling lazy. That's whay I have my combo.
Even with SMG, I do like the M5. It's no sports car but I like the looks, the engine is awesome and they are fairly rare. They should have given a few transmission options though. I'd have one if I only had one car though. Great all rounder.
M5>E55 (ONLY JOKING!!!)
Also, I agree that stick shifts are the most fun while automatics make great rides for when you're feeling lazy. That's whay I have my combo.
Even with SMG, I do like the M5. It's no sports car but I like the looks, the engine is awesome and they are fairly rare. They should have given a few transmission options though. I'd have one if I only had one car though. Great all rounder.
M5>E55 (ONLY JOKING!!!)
09-23-2006, 09:38 PM
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'15 E63S P30
I drove both the M5 and the E63 this weekend. Granted the M5 was an 05 with 10K miles on it. I hated the SMG, but even with a 6 speed manual it's not the car for me. I LOVED the E63, and if I didn't have 6 months left on my lease, I would have bought it on the spot. Sporty, handled great, and had lots of grunt.
09-23-2006, 11:02 PM
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SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
Broker,
It's very difficult to go from a Benz to BMW. Both are great cars but in my opinion the MB is more refined. If you want comfort, speed, quickness and quiet get a MB. If you want a 4 door that is as close to sportscar as you can get (with the warts) get an M5. I have my Vette for days that I don't want to cottled in luxury. BTW don't get caught up in the numbers talk, I think the M5 and the E63 will end up being very close in regard to real life performance.
It's very difficult to go from a Benz to BMW. Both are great cars but in my opinion the MB is more refined. If you want comfort, speed, quickness and quiet get a MB. If you want a 4 door that is as close to sportscar as you can get (with the warts) get an M5. I have my Vette for days that I don't want to cottled in luxury. BTW don't get caught up in the numbers talk, I think the M5 and the E63 will end up being very close in regard to real life performance.
09-24-2006, 01:12 AM
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Right on, on days when I am bored of the comfort and would like some spirited driving and sport feel I will just switch keys with my brother whom happens to have a 06 M5 , I have a 06 E55.
We take turns parking in the garage depending on who comes home late.
Wayne
We take turns parking in the garage depending on who comes home late.
Wayne
