FlyByNight

So, I have to technically chalk this up to complete rumor.... that's my disclaimer... but here's the skinny.

"A friend of mine" who was checking out his soon to be shipped 599, which he has on order, was in Europe for the last month. He is a big AMG fan too, and regularly meets up with all sorts of racers, execs... the to-remain-nameless big boys over there. He ordered an M6 today because of what he was told (daily driver).

At the "Monaco Boat Show" he had a nice long chat with some MB execs, and relayed the following to me:

- The 63 was rolled out early to circumvent the supercharger / Europe safety issues... "early" being the important word here. They elected to move forward with the rollout even though it was not a power-improvement over the 55 motor, because of the afore-mentioned transitional safety issues. They chose timing and the transition over beating their own 55 times.

- The 63 motor will remain in its current form until 2010. That's the year turbos will roll out on it... NOT earlier, as they are on a 3 year plan with NA 63 engines.

- All of the 55 S/C equipped cars are faster than the new 63 replacement versions. All of them. (he has a CL55). The difference is minimal, but it is there. They know it, they know we know it, they aren't changing anything, and they are fine with that. Which is why he just ordered an M6...

Much of this we suspected, and much of this people have discussed. And that's all I'm doing here. I just wanted to let you know that someone completely removed from the situation came back with all of this info.

Those of you wondering where your dyno'd horsepower went on the 63 motor... I asked how the hell a 507hp car can appear to have such average times... to which he simply replied "because it doesn't have 507hp." Whoa.

Pure speculation, all of it... that's my disclaimer. But I suspect more on this subject will be forthcoming shortly if its making the boat show rounds...

They also discussed the success of the 550 linup... and how it will be hard to justify the extra 26k (on a CL) to jump from a CL550 to a CL63, for example (or any of those 550 to 63 models) because the 550 engine is doing so well, and only a bit slower than the 63 cars. Really an interesting conversation.

No flaming please... I'm just relaying a converstation. As I've stated many times, I think the 63 is a great car and step in a new direction for AMG.

But I was kinda shocked to hear about all of this outside the board, where I'd expect to hear it. Rumor are rumors... but validation from uber rich independent third parties is kind of unsettling. Is this the first time in history AMG cars are slower than their predecessors?

vraa

The new direction being lying to the customers?
And creating vehicles that please the bean counters?
Of course, this is all based on a convo you had with someone who had a convo with some MB Execs at a boat show

Jspeed

Hmmm, interesting. It would be good too to have a discussion with someone from AMG itself and hear his side of the story ... I suspect it may be quite different.

AMG_Power

hmmm...interesting but I dont believe it!!

FlyByNight

A very rich boat show that MB sponsored, so there were many more people in the know there than you might assume. They had their entire line up there, and I'll post pictures soon. People were test driving them left and right, and the 599 was there for future owners to look at first hand. Its a little more advanced than anything you'll find in Sugarland or LA or anything stateside, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

http://www.monacoyachtshow.org/n2_pa...mercedes.shtml

Look, its easy to be critical about the source... YOUR source is even more removed (because you don't have one). I thought I made it very clear this was rumor and speculation, officially. Did I not? Its funny, you're critical of a discussion on a discussion board.

Direction for AMG, as I've said many times, to build their own engine from the ground up, the 63 is the begining of an all AMG trend.

vraa

I don't have a source, never claimed to have one or be one Of course I'm critical, I'm always going to be the kind of guy that'll question things.

In my opinion, this isn't a good start. It's a great engine, but not a good start.

I didn't mean to put you on the defensive, I've just learned through highschool that bring cynical pays off more in the end.

FlyByNight

Politically, PR and revenue wise, no, its not a good start. Mechanically is what I meant.

I'm very curious about car mag reviews and what their angle is on all of this... they have to come out at some point...

Rock

I believe it!! But then again I believe just about any conspiracy theory.

On a more serious note. The part that I have a hard time with is why would MB/AMG Brass produced and advertise an engine that does not actually generate 507hp. MB/AMG would be taking a huge risk by doing this and imagine the catastrophic harm to their reputation if it was actually proven to be true.

For the time being, I'm going to have to believe that the 63's sub-par track performance and its low dynos are the result of either drive-line loss, ecu programing, load limits and yadayadayada.

DFW01E55

And admission to the yacht show was a bargain at $62.50 a person! (No, you won't be getting on the yachts, but you can get reeaaal close.)

I was walking by the MB dealer on my way to the show and I was excited because every previous time I had been at the dealer, it was after hours.

When I get there, they had taken all of the cars off the floor and were preparing the showroom for some type of media event that night.

So that night as I'm going by in a cab, I see them just starting to unveil (white fabric car cover) what looks like a CLS ... but just that quick, the car is out of view. I just can't win.

Ferrari's, Lambo's, Bentleys - they're all so common in Monte Carlo that you stop noticing the high end MB's and BMW's.

rdk

Did they discuss why the SL55 did not receive the new 6.3 motor?

MiamiAMG

Very interesting & if true, very disappointing.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I believe it, pretty much confirms the wealth of evidence already collected regarding the performance of the 63's, the eventuality of a TT setup, and the front-seat position that the bean counters at Merc have taken over the engineers. Besides, a half-drunken convo at a boat show is still better intel than anything people are cro-barring from the AMG execs on public forums.

jangy

Hehe. Keep bashing me for telling the truth. At least I'm glad to see that MB is consistent in what it says on both sides of the pond. Again, keep in mind. The power of the 63 is not just a lie. It is simply NOT as "conservative" as the one in the E55.

The SL55 didn't get it because it still comes in the 550 and 65. They can only make so many motors and kept it consistent. There is no doubt that MB's only concern is defending the prices on the CL / SL / S, until the new TT comes out. 2010 is what i had heard as well. This is actually typical of MB. They will likely launch the new "E" in '09 with the 63 and then follow up with the TT, making it the desired car again through the model run.

abalto

Good work Loren! The information you have found certainly makes sense and supports everything!

FlyByNight

yes, the "it doesn't have 507 hp" remark was an aside, not a fact. I'm sure the engine, or some engine, without any load limiter or in some other perfect environment, made 507 hp. So, while the 55s hp was called conservative, he implied the 507 was optimistic... that's all.

I'll have pics soon....



Loren

2K6E55

Good info.

awiner

Long live the 55 !!!

ChicagoX

Shame. Conservative makes friends, optimistic is legally actionable.

pas

+1

//AMG55lover

It's right that they stopped the 55 engine for the NEW MODELS because of the European safety issues!

There must be space between the engine hood and the hard parts of the engine itself (Euro 6 norm). All that because of safety for pedestrians. The new Jaguar XK has a kind of an Airbag between the engine and the hood, wat is nice found by the way!

So for the E-class they changed the engine hood and they replaced the engine for a non supercharged. Without a Supercharger there is more room and that gives also the rumor about the 63 TT version what will come in the future, the Turbo's can been put under the engine.....Thats wat I have read in some interviews with MB CEO's.

Probably they can keep on producing the SL 55 because of some escape that the SL falls under other rules?????

vader

If you really like conspiracy....maybe THAT is the reason they started castrating Kompressor 55's !! I like the E63...but I am so glad I have my 55

//AMG55lover

Castrating is taking the ***** (ouch ), so for the E 55 it must be the Kompressor (even more ouch )!

I am even more glad, I have two 55's (non castrated )!