Kleemann ( Don't stand behind there products )
05-02-2007, 01:28 PM
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E63
05-02-2007, 01:48 PM
#102
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"The" or "This" would also help. "The dude"
"This dude will begin bashing"
Also Cant has an apostrophe missing (Can't)
"This dude will begin bashing"
Also Cant has an apostrophe missing (Can't)
Last edited by SANDOVAL; 05-02-2007 at 01:54 PM.
05-02-2007, 01:53 PM
#103
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06 EuroElites E55
Sorry dude. 
05-02-2007, 01:54 PM
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E63
05-03-2007, 02:56 AM
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honduh, bimmer, bEnz, ferrari and etc
That is troubling about Kleeman. Customer service should always be paramount.
We try to make 100% of our customers happy......and I believe for the most part we do, because I try to stay in touch with them, and see how they like their cars.
From a warranty standpoint, we say 2 years, and we mean 2 years.
We try to make 100% of our customers happy......and I believe for the most part we do, because I try to stay in touch with them, and see how they like their cars.
From a warranty standpoint, we say 2 years, and we mean 2 years.
05-03-2007, 05:03 AM
#108
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04 CLK55, IWC CLS55 AMG(one of 55), 07 Honda CR-V 4WD
Well I do not want to throw another stone to stir things up again with Kleemann's Customer Service but I think I have to. This is going to be long and I will be adding the cost, which occurred to get this right, in an incremental way.
My case was very very obvious, I bought Kleemann shorty headers for 55 N/A CLK55 AMG(W209) in early 2005. I installed them flawlessly as Brandon and Cory from Kleemann USA has told me. I asked them about the CEL light and B&C@K told me that all I needed was to send the ecu to Kleeamann to get the coding done for the rear O2 sensors. As expected, the CEL came on and I sent the ECU to Kleemann and it came back overnighted at my cost.(US$200) I installed ECU back in the car and started it and the CEL came right back on. I called Kleemann USA and explained the situation to B&C and what they told me was that the rear O2 sensor wiring must be wrong. I wanted to know what the heck was going on with my own hands so I went to Autozone and got the OBD2 Code reader.(US$400)
I erased the code and the CEL went away for a while and came back when ever I had a spirited run or cold start or most of times out of blue. The error codes were P141(Bank 1 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction), and P161(Bank2 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction). So I took the car to get the wiring redone at a local car/body/engine remanufacturer shop.(US$ 500) These guys were not used to German cars well but they really knew a lot about the cars since they literally build for almost any cars. As the CEL light came on, I asked the guy to call Kleemann to discuss this matter with B&C@K, so he did me a favor. Again, B&C@K told him that the two white wires cannot be mixed up unlike 4 wire O2 sensors of american cars. The O2 sensors were dead. This mechanic and I was so innocent to believe what we heard from B&K@K.
So I replaced the O2 sensors(US$1100) and made sure that the wires are perfectly connected this time. As I left the garage, I got the light back on. I was mad.
The MB tech(master technician who installed my LSD in Newbury MA) and the local engine shop guy(in Sommerville MA) agree and confirmed that the Rear O2 were too far from the exhaust manifold that those were not getting hot soon enough, which triggered the O2 sensor malfunction in ECU. It turned out that they were right.
I kept calling Kleemann to get help and the only thing Cory told me was "Jason, Remember this. There are 4 wires on the O2 sensors you have to cut the wires and re connect them like the original. There are x number of ways to get them wrong and just one miss-connected O2 wire will trigger the CEL light. The guys that you are working with do not know well about MBs and they must have mixed up again."
***I bet he would never guessed that I still remember the exact words he told me until now.***
In May of 2005, as my F-1 status visa was about to expire, I left for Korea.
Here I still tried to solve the problem through Kleemann DK since Kleemann USA was unable and incapable of giving me a permenant solution.
You know the Kleemann HQ(DK) guys were really listening to me. I sent them pictures and diagrams of my headers and O2 sensors to explain the situation but they weren't aware of the problem either. I must have been the experimental sample for CLK55(W209) headers I guess.
In 2006, the rear O2 sensors died again, and it costs me US$2000(total US$3500 so far) to get them replaced and rewired with """18 gauge copper wire""" in Korea - Are you guys at Kleemann USA listening to this?
Later on I found a memeber on CLK55, who had installed the Kleemann sport cats where the removed primary cats, solved the problem by moving up the O2s closer to the exhaust manifold.
I sent an email to Kleemann USA about these cats, they asked me to buy them a@ 300 per piece after having go through so much **** with the headers. I did not respond to their emails since spending any more money was useless.
My CEL light problem was solved when I installed the 63 AMG quad exhaust system which had a resonator behind the secondary cats. The original 03 04 CLK55 exhaust was a straight pipe without a resonator.
To summarize the point.
Kleemann told me that there was no problem installing/using the headers but apparently there was and they were refusing to admit that there was one. Kleemann continued to sell the product knowing that there was a problem. About 15 months after they sold me the headers, Kleemann came up with sport cats to stop the CEL light.
I think I have used my OBD2 more than 1000 times to turn off CEL light.
My lawyer has even asked me to take a legal action against the brand for having me go through this mental paranoia about having to live with the CEL light. It is a nightmare for people like us. It is very much embarassing to have the CEL on while you are with people who know about cars.
Brandon & Cory, I don't want any kind of apologies but you guys have to admit that your level of customer service on this matter was extremely poor.
Anyways, that was one damn bad experience with Kleemann.
My case was very very obvious, I bought Kleemann shorty headers for 55 N/A CLK55 AMG(W209) in early 2005. I installed them flawlessly as Brandon and Cory from Kleemann USA has told me. I asked them about the CEL light and B&C@K told me that all I needed was to send the ecu to Kleeamann to get the coding done for the rear O2 sensors. As expected, the CEL came on and I sent the ECU to Kleemann and it came back overnighted at my cost.(US$200) I installed ECU back in the car and started it and the CEL came right back on. I called Kleemann USA and explained the situation to B&C and what they told me was that the rear O2 sensor wiring must be wrong. I wanted to know what the heck was going on with my own hands so I went to Autozone and got the OBD2 Code reader.(US$400)
I erased the code and the CEL went away for a while and came back when ever I had a spirited run or cold start or most of times out of blue. The error codes were P141(Bank 1 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction), and P161(Bank2 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction). So I took the car to get the wiring redone at a local car/body/engine remanufacturer shop.(US$ 500) These guys were not used to German cars well but they really knew a lot about the cars since they literally build for almost any cars. As the CEL light came on, I asked the guy to call Kleemann to discuss this matter with B&C@K, so he did me a favor. Again, B&C@K told him that the two white wires cannot be mixed up unlike 4 wire O2 sensors of american cars. The O2 sensors were dead. This mechanic and I was so innocent to believe what we heard from B&K@K.
So I replaced the O2 sensors(US$1100) and made sure that the wires are perfectly connected this time. As I left the garage, I got the light back on. I was mad.
The MB tech(master technician who installed my LSD in Newbury MA) and the local engine shop guy(in Sommerville MA) agree and confirmed that the Rear O2 were too far from the exhaust manifold that those were not getting hot soon enough, which triggered the O2 sensor malfunction in ECU. It turned out that they were right.
I kept calling Kleemann to get help and the only thing Cory told me was "Jason, Remember this. There are 4 wires on the O2 sensors you have to cut the wires and re connect them like the original. There are x number of ways to get them wrong and just one miss-connected O2 wire will trigger the CEL light. The guys that you are working with do not know well about MBs and they must have mixed up again."
***I bet he would never guessed that I still remember the exact words he told me until now.***
In May of 2005, as my F-1 status visa was about to expire, I left for Korea.
Here I still tried to solve the problem through Kleemann DK since Kleemann USA was unable and incapable of giving me a permenant solution.
You know the Kleemann HQ(DK) guys were really listening to me. I sent them pictures and diagrams of my headers and O2 sensors to explain the situation but they weren't aware of the problem either. I must have been the experimental sample for CLK55(W209) headers I guess.
In 2006, the rear O2 sensors died again, and it costs me US$2000(total US$3500 so far) to get them replaced and rewired with """18 gauge copper wire""" in Korea - Are you guys at Kleemann USA listening to this?
Later on I found a memeber on CLK55, who had installed the Kleemann sport cats where the removed primary cats, solved the problem by moving up the O2s closer to the exhaust manifold.
I sent an email to Kleemann USA about these cats, they asked me to buy them a@ 300 per piece after having go through so much **** with the headers. I did not respond to their emails since spending any more money was useless.
My CEL light problem was solved when I installed the 63 AMG quad exhaust system which had a resonator behind the secondary cats. The original 03 04 CLK55 exhaust was a straight pipe without a resonator.
To summarize the point.
Kleemann told me that there was no problem installing/using the headers but apparently there was and they were refusing to admit that there was one. Kleemann continued to sell the product knowing that there was a problem. About 15 months after they sold me the headers, Kleemann came up with sport cats to stop the CEL light.
I think I have used my OBD2 more than 1000 times to turn off CEL light.
My lawyer has even asked me to take a legal action against the brand for having me go through this mental paranoia about having to live with the CEL light. It is a nightmare for people like us. It is very much embarassing to have the CEL on while you are with people who know about cars.
Brandon & Cory, I don't want any kind of apologies but you guys have to admit that your level of customer service on this matter was extremely poor.
Anyways, that was one damn bad experience with Kleemann.
Last edited by JLee81; 05-03-2007 at 07:39 AM.
05-03-2007, 05:47 AM
#109
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well I do not want to throw another stone to stir things up again with Kleemann's Customer Service but I think I have to. This is going to be long and I will be adding the cost, which occurred to get this right, in an incremental way.
My case was very very obvious, I bought Kleemann shorty headers for 55 N/A CLK55 AMG(W209) in early 2005. I installed them flawlessly as Brandon and Cory from Kleemann USA has told me. I asked them about the CEL light and B&C@K told me that all I needed was to send the ecu to Kleeamann to get the coding done for the rear O2 sensors. As expected, the CEL came on and I sent the ECU to Kleemann and it came back overnighted at my cost.(US$200) I installed ECU back in the car and started it and the CEL came right back on. I called Kleemann USA and explained the situation to B&C and what they told me was that the rear O2 sensor wiring must be wrong. I wanted to know what the heck was going on with my own hands so I went to Autozone and got the OBD2 Code reader.(US$400)
I erased the code and the CEL went away for a while and came back when ever I had a spirited run or cold start or most of times out of blue. The error codes were P141(Bank 1 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction), and P161(Bank2 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction). So I took the car to get the wiring redone at a local car/body/engine remanufacturer shop.(US$ 500) These guys were not used to German cars well but they really knew a lot about the cars since they literally build for almost any cars. As the CEL light came on, I asked the guy to call Kleemann to discuss this matter with B&C@K, so he did me a favor. Again, B&C@K told him that the two white wires cannot be mixed up unlike 4 wire O2 sensors of american cars. The O2 sensors were dead. This mechanic and I was so innocent to believe what we heard from B&K@K.
So I replaced the O2 sensors(US$1100) and made sure that the wires are perfectly connected this time. As I left the garage, I got the light back on. I was mad.
The MB tech(master technician who installed my LSD in Newbury MA) and the local engine shop guy(in Sommerville MA) agree and confirmed that the Rear O2 were too far from the exhaust manifold that those were not getting hot soon enough, which triggered the O2 sensor malfunction in ECU. It turned out that they were right.
I kept calling Kleemann to get help and the only thing Cory told me was "Jason, Remember this. There are 4 wires on the O2 sensors you have to cut the wires and re connect them like the original. There are x number of ways to get them wrong and just one miss-connected O2 wire will trigger the CEL light. The guys that you are working with do not know well about MBs and they must have mixed up again."
***I bet he would never guessed that I still remember the exact words he told me until now.***
In May of 2005, as my F-1 status visa was about to expire, I left for Korea.
Here I still tried to solve the problem through Kleemann DK since Kleemann USA was unable and incapable of giving me a permenant solution.
You know the Kleemann HQ(DK) guys were really listening to me. I sent them pictures and diagrams of my headers and O2 sensors to explain the situation but they weren't aware of the problem either. I must have been the experimental sample for CLK55(W209) headers I guess.
In 2006, the rear O2 sensors died again, and it costs me US$2000(total US$3500 so far) to get them replaced and rewired with """18 gauge copper wire""" in Korea - Are you guys at Kleemann USA listening to this?
Later on I found a memeber on CLK55, who had installed the Kleemann sport cats where the removed primary cats, solved the problem by moving up the O2s closer to the exhaust manifold.
I sent an email to Kleemann USA about these cats, they asked me to buy them a@ 300 per piece after having go through so much **** with the headers. I did not respond to their emails since spending any more money was useless.
My CEL light problem was solved when I installed the 63 AMG quad exhaust system which had a resonator behind the secondary cats. The original 03 04 CLK55 exhaust was a straight pipe without a resonator.
To summarize the point.
Kleemann told me that there was no problem installing/using the headers but apparently there was and there were refusing to admit that there was one. Kleemann continued to sell the product knowing that there was a problem. About 15 months after they sold me the headers, Kleemann came up with sport cats to stop the CEL light.
I think I have used my OBD2 more than 1000 times to turn off CEL light.
My lawyer has even asked me to take a legal action against the brand for having me go through this mental paranoia about having to live with the CEL light. It is a nightmare for people like us. It is very much embarassing to have the CEL on while you are with people who know about cars.
Brandon & Cory, I don't want any kind of apologies but you guys have to admit that your level of customer service on this matter was extremely poor.
Anyways, that was one damn bad experience with Kleemann.
My case was very very obvious, I bought Kleemann shorty headers for 55 N/A CLK55 AMG(W209) in early 2005. I installed them flawlessly as Brandon and Cory from Kleemann USA has told me. I asked them about the CEL light and B&C@K told me that all I needed was to send the ecu to Kleeamann to get the coding done for the rear O2 sensors. As expected, the CEL came on and I sent the ECU to Kleemann and it came back overnighted at my cost.(US$200) I installed ECU back in the car and started it and the CEL came right back on. I called Kleemann USA and explained the situation to B&C and what they told me was that the rear O2 sensor wiring must be wrong. I wanted to know what the heck was going on with my own hands so I went to Autozone and got the OBD2 Code reader.(US$400)
I erased the code and the CEL went away for a while and came back when ever I had a spirited run or cold start or most of times out of blue. The error codes were P141(Bank 1 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction), and P161(Bank2 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit Malfunction). So I took the car to get the wiring redone at a local car/body/engine remanufacturer shop.(US$ 500) These guys were not used to German cars well but they really knew a lot about the cars since they literally build for almost any cars. As the CEL light came on, I asked the guy to call Kleemann to discuss this matter with B&C@K, so he did me a favor. Again, B&C@K told him that the two white wires cannot be mixed up unlike 4 wire O2 sensors of american cars. The O2 sensors were dead. This mechanic and I was so innocent to believe what we heard from B&K@K.
So I replaced the O2 sensors(US$1100) and made sure that the wires are perfectly connected this time. As I left the garage, I got the light back on. I was mad.
The MB tech(master technician who installed my LSD in Newbury MA) and the local engine shop guy(in Sommerville MA) agree and confirmed that the Rear O2 were too far from the exhaust manifold that those were not getting hot soon enough, which triggered the O2 sensor malfunction in ECU. It turned out that they were right.
I kept calling Kleemann to get help and the only thing Cory told me was "Jason, Remember this. There are 4 wires on the O2 sensors you have to cut the wires and re connect them like the original. There are x number of ways to get them wrong and just one miss-connected O2 wire will trigger the CEL light. The guys that you are working with do not know well about MBs and they must have mixed up again."
***I bet he would never guessed that I still remember the exact words he told me until now.***
In May of 2005, as my F-1 status visa was about to expire, I left for Korea.
Here I still tried to solve the problem through Kleemann DK since Kleemann USA was unable and incapable of giving me a permenant solution.
You know the Kleemann HQ(DK) guys were really listening to me. I sent them pictures and diagrams of my headers and O2 sensors to explain the situation but they weren't aware of the problem either. I must have been the experimental sample for CLK55(W209) headers I guess.
In 2006, the rear O2 sensors died again, and it costs me US$2000(total US$3500 so far) to get them replaced and rewired with """18 gauge copper wire""" in Korea - Are you guys at Kleemann USA listening to this?
Later on I found a memeber on CLK55, who had installed the Kleemann sport cats where the removed primary cats, solved the problem by moving up the O2s closer to the exhaust manifold.
I sent an email to Kleemann USA about these cats, they asked me to buy them a@ 300 per piece after having go through so much **** with the headers. I did not respond to their emails since spending any more money was useless.
My CEL light problem was solved when I installed the 63 AMG quad exhaust system which had a resonator behind the secondary cats. The original 03 04 CLK55 exhaust was a straight pipe without a resonator.
To summarize the point.
Kleemann told me that there was no problem installing/using the headers but apparently there was and there were refusing to admit that there was one. Kleemann continued to sell the product knowing that there was a problem. About 15 months after they sold me the headers, Kleemann came up with sport cats to stop the CEL light.
I think I have used my OBD2 more than 1000 times to turn off CEL light.
My lawyer has even asked me to take a legal action against the brand for having me go through this mental paranoia about having to live with the CEL light. It is a nightmare for people like us. It is very much embarassing to have the CEL on while you are with people who know about cars.
Brandon & Cory, I don't want any kind of apologies but you guys have to admit that your level of customer service on this matter was extremely poor.
Anyways, that was one damn bad experience with Kleemann.
I'm surprised that adding the Res solved the issue.
05-03-2007, 07:33 AM
#110
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04 CLK55, IWC CLS55 AMG(one of 55), 07 Honda CR-V 4WD
03 04 CLK55s did not have the resonator. The OEM was like a straight pipe so there was no back pressure near the new sacondary O2 sensor and that means less heat around the area. Well.. That's how it ended you are welcome to get one 03 04 CLK55 and try my method.
05-03-2007, 07:36 AM
#111
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04 CLK55, IWC CLS55 AMG(one of 55), 07 Honda CR-V 4WD
Yes they did not know what was wrong with the thing they made because I was the first CLK55 that used Kleemann headers. Anyways...
05-03-2007, 08:15 AM
#112
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes well let's say that CEL did not come back after I added the CLK 55/63 quad exhaust system which came with the resonator. Even after a hard run upto 160 or 170 and back to normal, the CEL won't be registered in ECU at all.
03 04 CLK55s did not have the resonator. The OEM was like a straight pipe so there was no back pressure near the new sacondary O2 sensor and that means less heat around the area. Well.. That's how it ended you are welcome to get one 03 04 CLK55 and try my method.
03 04 CLK55s did not have the resonator. The OEM was like a straight pipe so there was no back pressure near the new sacondary O2 sensor and that means less heat around the area. Well.. That's how it ended you are welcome to get one 03 04 CLK55 and try my method.
P.S. Sorry about your experience with Kleemann. Sounds terrible. Sometimes unfortunately this happens as long as it's not a constant customer service problem.
Last edited by ProjectC55; 05-03-2007 at 08:21 AM.
05-03-2007, 10:45 AM
#114
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04 CLK55, IWC CLS55 AMG(one of 55), 07 Honda CR-V 4WD
No the setup on my car is very similar to yours. Headers,no primary cats,secondary cats to y-pipe to single resonator,3" SS all the way back.I'll be putting the Kleemann headers on this wknd. I do have an aftermarket reso behind my secondary cats. So I am going to place the O2 bungs in between the secondary cats and the reso. I'll be following the advice of Speedybenz who has a slightly similar setup and extend the secondary O2's. He's had no CEL's thank God. Hopefully I'll see no CEL. Wish me luck.
P.S. Sorry about your experience with Kleemann. Sounds terrible. Sometimes unfortunately this happens as long as it's not a constant customer service problem.
P.S. Sorry about your experience with Kleemann. Sounds terrible. Sometimes unfortunately this happens as long as it's not a constant customer service problem.
05-03-2007, 02:06 PM
#115
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E63
05-03-2007, 02:49 PM
#116
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05-03-2007, 02:52 PM
#117
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2015 S212
I hate to hear these gray zone stories. I can see the argument for both sides, but I also think that how a company treats a single customer is characteristic of their overall customer service reputation. How am I to assume that I won't be that one that falls through the cracks?
I'm passing no judgement on Kleeman as I have no history with them. Also, they have plenty of believers on the boards, so they must do something right. At the same point, having a pissing match on the forums won't help anyone involved.
Good luck to those with issues (be it customer service related or language barriers).
I'm passing no judgement on Kleeman as I have no history with them. Also, they have plenty of believers on the boards, so they must do something right. At the same point, having a pissing match on the forums won't help anyone involved.
Good luck to those with issues (be it customer service related or language barriers).
05-03-2007, 06:52 PM
#118
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11 R8 V10 Cab / 12 Scion IQ / 11 Toyota Sienna / 07 CL550 / 09 C63 / 91 NSX / 00 S2000 / 01 TypeR
Thanks Guy for all comment ( good or bad ) .
Problem solve finally . They are willing to give Store credit .
It was actually part of my false , if I went straight to whoever that was incharge in Kleemann & not talk to whoever that was useless .
Problem solve finally . They are willing to give Store credit .
It was actually part of my false , if I went straight to whoever that was incharge in Kleemann & not talk to whoever that was useless .
