mikE55

Just had a chance to test drive an '03 BMW M3 with the SMG clutchless sequential manual transmission. My wife loves BMWs and I thought I might be able to get her to trade her 5-series in for an M3. Well, it won't happen. The SMG is not an automatic with a torque converter. In "automatic mode", the shifts are VERY jerky, and the car is a bit jarring to drive. My wife's response was "what kind of crazy transmission is this? I'll pass."

I, on the other hand, absolutely LOVED it! In sequential (manual) mode it gives great control over the engine. It really provides the "high tech" feel of an F1 car. I drive my E55 in touchshift mode quite often and I must say the MB auto can't compete with the SMG in terms of performance. The SMG is just like driving a manual without the clutch. I even found my left foot reaching for the clutch from time to time. Frankly, as slick as SMG is, it's still got some quirks, and I'd rather have the normal 6-speed manual. But a manual won't do for the Mrs.

I've not had a chance to drive the AMG Speedshift. But from what I've read, it's just a more aggressively programmed version of the touchshift with faster shifts. I still wonder how it compares to SMG? Anyone driven both SMG and Speedshift?

Overall, the M3 vs. the E55 is apples and oranges to me. The M3 is an autocross racer right out of the box. What blast to drive!!! The E55 is the ultimate Q car, a luxury cruiser with punishing performance. The E55 acts like a normal luxury car, until you hammer the gas, then WOW!!! The M3 seems to be in WOW mode all the time. Which is great fun, but a little too brutal when you've got kids in the back. Nevertheless, I was quite impressed with the M3 SMG combo. The E55 is still the better car for my daily needs, but an M3 for the weekends sure would be nice.

Gustav

Correctly understood!

linh

All the magazines that wrote about AMG Speedshift, they didn't say any special except for 35% shift faster. As for the SMG, they wrote about two pages described of how wonderful and good the SMG tranny is. MikE55, i bet you didn't try the "S6" mode, i'm i right? That's the mode you want to be in when you want to race someone.

mikE55

I was in mode 5 most of the time, which was very aggressive. I don't think you can get into mode 6 unless you turn off the traction/stability control. My sales guy and I go way back, so he let me really ring the car out in a twisty hill side run. But he wasn't about to let me turn off the DSC and fall off a cliff. So no, didn't try S6. But S5 was impressive enough. I did try the lower modes too, but it was still way too jerky for my wife, and kind of blah to me. Seems like there are too many modes.

I hope Mercedes-AMG will take a page from their DTM/F1 race technology and put something like SMG into future AMG cars. Ferrari and BMW have a lead here, it's time to close that gap!

JustinTRW

Hey Mike,

First off, I'd like to ask why people call this a clutchless transmission. It is not without a clutch, but there is just no pedal there. Fundamental understanding of the system would pretty much answer any questions you have.

I have tried Speedshift (have it) and the M3 SMG. I have gotten rides in the M3 SMG and have actually driven one. S6 mode cannot be engaged without traction control on as you know. It is very fast, but there is NO REASON to turn it off on the street. Think it is being too restrictive? Wrong. You are giving too much input. Save it for the track. S6 mode is incredible, even S5 is very impressive. I would say S4 is about how I would shift normally. S1 to S3 modes are useless basically. The automatic modes I would never use personally. It is better than Ferrari's F1 system in some respects, juding by my brief ride in a 355 F1.

Essentially, there is no comparison. SMG is a 6-speed manual transmission and speedshift is an automatic. You can almost end the discussion right there. When getting SMG, ask yourself the reasons why. Pleasure, convenience, speed? The standard 6-speed on the M3 is more satisfying honestly. Legging the clutch is a little more fun, even if you can't execute as quickly as the SMG. If you are into drag racing, SMG is not for you. If you are into road racing (on a real track), then SMG might be for you. SMG will never beat a human driver on his game in a drag race. The difference is in consistency. SMG is less tiring in traffic obviously, but again, see if you like using a standard transmission. The SMG basically gives you the gear you want when you want it, just like a real manual (because it IS one). You get all the qualities that go with it (jerkiness under quick shifts, increased fuel economy, control). What it will not do is shift as smoothly as an auto, nor will it allow you to completely relax in traffic.

The auto suits the C32, which makes this car less sporty because of it. Speedshift on the other hand is better than any other automatic the car makes have to offer. I've driven BMW steptronic, Porsche/Audi tiptronic, Jaguar J-shift, and other Mercedes autos. You name it, Speedshift is better. That being said, when it comes to pure driver control, it won't quite reach where SMG places itself.

Again, the reason is that SMG is not an auto, but a manual transmission. I think people forget this because they are trying to replace autos with it. Well, it's not meant to replace anything. I would rather decide which car I want more, rather than focusing on the transmissions. However, it does sway some buyers one way or another.

Sorry for the long post.

mikE55

Justin, agree with much of what you stated. I know SMG is a manual and Speedshift is an auto. Some of the magazines refer to it as "clutchless", so was just using their wording. The computer engages the clutch instead of ones foot.

I guess what I'm after is the best of both worlds of comfort and performance, regardless of whether it's really an auto or a manual. I have a feeling BMW's SMG III, when released with the new M5 will blur the line even more. I expect in "automatic" mode it will have smoother shifts and come closer to feeling like an automatic with a torque converter. Likewise, I was wondering how close Speedshift, although an auto, came to SMG in terms of performance. You seem to be telling me it doesn't, so I guess I have my answer.

In my case, I sometimes love to be pampered in luxury and have a somewhat comfortable yet sporty ride. At other times, I'm back in boy racer mode, and want all out performance. This is why the E55 fits me perfectly. This is also what I like about SMG. It almost gives the ease of use of an auto (for my wife), but still provides near maximum performance (for me). I enjoy driving a stick just as much as the next guy, but I didn't miss the clutch pedal that much driving the SMG. Thus, I think AMG needs to get on the ball to match a transmission like SMG. Imagine what the w211 E55 would be like with a transmission like that!

JustinTRW

From a pure sporting view, speedshift doesn't match SMG. The best way to use speedshift on the track is to let it do whatever it wants honestly. You must remember that with this auto you control the gear range (selecting 3 enables gears 1-3), not the actual gear. It's still pretty damn good, the 1-2 shift is very fast for an auto.

The thing to remember is that in most respects, AMG models drive almost exactly like their non-AMG siblings in traffic. Would Mercedes allow a sequential box in their luxury cars? They seem to have already done so, with what they call SMT. It has so far been available on lower powered vehicles. However, they have detuned it so it does not shift as violently as SMG.

mikE55

I think you hit the nail on the head. Mercedes would need to have a kind of "comfort" mode that allowed for super smooth shifting before they released anything like that in their high-end cars. This is why I probably won't be getting the M3 SMG, my wife feels the transmission is brutal and jarring. She wants something more sporty than her 5-series, it was just my wishful thinking she'd go for the M3. Ahh it's just as well, the M3 engines seem to keep blowing up, some kind of problem with the engine bearings. I suspect SMG II ain't that reliable yet either.

MKW

will be active steering. Basically involves a motor in the steering column that rotates either direction and adjusts steering ratio continuously. It allows negotiating a low speed hair pin turn at only half a turn, up to direct 1:1 ratio at 100 mph, to slower ratio as you go faster for straightline stability. They say to give a high speed road car super turn- in with current fixed ratio tecnology , it would crash into the armco if you sneezed at 170 mph .
They said combined with SMG III on the next M cars, you never have to turn more than half lock at speed so that finger shifting errors are reduced too ! Like driving a Formula 1 from a shifting AND steering standpoint. BMW claims they are 2-3 years ahead of anyone else with this technology. M3 CSL may get it first.
Note that this is not " steering - by - wire", where there is NO steering column, just a "rheostat " that your wheel is connected to , like a video game controller. I think I would sit out the first year or two of THAT innovation or full brake by wire ( not the hybrid system that MBZ has on the SL and new E Class but who has said that's next ).

JustinTRW

The variable steering ratio has been in Honda's camp for YEARS. See Honda S2000 V-spec (I think it was a V).

MKW

Oops, I knew that about Honda. I was referring to BMW's claim they were ahead of their German competitors and that I believe the slower ratio esp above 100 mph is new. Doubt that's a concern for S2000 V spec owners as their system was more for autocross/ tight track type driving.

FrankW

mikE55, the SMG IS a manual transmission with computer controlled clutch.

drove my friend's 03 jet blk M3 SMG couple weeks ago, and it did not impress me at all. The shifting is just too harsh even in the auto mode #2, which is very retarding. (#1 mode is useless btw)

But the M3 IS more rewarding to drive, it give the driver more feed back, and let the driver know what his/she is doing. Throttle response is much better than my own car. The seating is unusually high though. The I-6 engine sounds wonderful compare to the damn deisel sound from my own car. The steering is too light to my liking though, my 2000 328Ci has much better steering feel.

another thing i dislike is that for the M3's 3.2 I-6 engine, you really have to rev it to get every bit of the power out. When you are not reving the engine it feels like driving a 4 cyclinder. (my car drives like a 4 cyclinder too, when the rev is below 2k)

Overall, my impression of the M3 is good, but definitely not a daily driver. I still pick my C32 over the M3.

dallasdriver

The smg has to be driven like a manual in automatic modes european car said in its new test,
"To drive an SMG car smoothly in everyday conditions, you must ralize that even though you are not moving a shift lever, you still have to drive it. Lift teh throttle lightly for upshifts, rev it a little extra for downshifts. Then it is smooth."