Stock IC pump differences?
05-31-2007, 07:09 PM
#1
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Stock IC pump differences?
What are the differences between failed IC pumps and the new ones that MB service puts in as replacement, if any?
Curious if there was any evolution between the ones first introduced in our vehicles and the new ones that are replacing them. Saw this discussed in a few threads a while back, but nothing concrete. This information will probably be beneficial to all of us.
Curious if there was any evolution between the ones first introduced in our vehicles and the new ones that are replacing them. Saw this discussed in a few threads a while back, but nothing concrete. This information will probably be beneficial to all of us.
05-31-2007, 07:18 PM
#2
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2015 S212
Slight difference in bearings. The main difference is they program the car to have it come on less, so it gets less hours on it. Not much of a "fix". I say get it if you can under warranty. If not, go aftermarket.
05-31-2007, 07:40 PM
#3
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I think MB has released a new pump in January?
On a side note:
Vrus is going to have a cooling system available soon; i think rflow has the first kit. Evosport has a quality aftermarket cooling system too.
On a side note:
Vrus is going to have a cooling system available soon; i think rflow has the first kit. Evosport has a quality aftermarket cooling system too.
Last edited by AdamG@NorCal; 05-31-2007 at 08:31 PM.
05-31-2007, 08:22 PM
#4
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How is that done exactly? Is the temperature threshold raised so that they engage later? I’d think that if it the temps get hot enough, then the IC pumps would need to come on.
05-31-2007, 09:02 PM
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2015 S212
Going to a full time on pump will keep your buffer zone lower, so it will take more to overheat.
05-31-2007, 09:20 PM
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'11/E63-Former car: '05 RT4 E55, Sprintbooster, Phenolic Spacers, RT IC /Secondary HE & BMC Filters
That is exactly how it is done. The problem becomes that you end up not maximizing your cooling and end up living just below a threshold that can get capped with just a few blasts.
Going to a full time on pump will keep your buffer zone lower, so it will take more to overheat.
Going to a full time on pump will keep your buffer zone lower, so it will take more to overheat.
05-31-2007, 09:40 PM
#7
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2015 S212
The OEM pump (all have been Bosch) can indeed be rewired to stay on, but it will likely not last long. You may as well do it and let it burn out before going to the marine pump. The marine pump is rated at 5000 hours, which is plenty.
All of this is independent of the intercooling setup. The OEM setup uses a single system and pump to cool the engine and SC. The aftermarket kits by Renntech and EVO separate the two by adding the heat exchanger.
All of this is independent of the intercooling setup. The OEM setup uses a single system and pump to cool the engine and SC. The aftermarket kits by Renntech and EVO separate the two by adding the heat exchanger.
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05-31-2007, 10:35 PM
#9
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I don't think so. I think the older ones just stayed on longer. Keeping them constant is just a quick rewiring. I don't know anyone that has done it through programming.
05-31-2007, 11:03 PM
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E55
That is exactly how it is done. The problem becomes that you end up not maximizing your cooling and end up living just below a threshold that can get capped with just a few blasts.
Going to a full time on pump will keep your buffer zone lower, so it will take more to overheat.
Going to a full time on pump will keep your buffer zone lower, so it will take more to overheat.
I will also rig my replaced pump to be on all the time soon and maybe just throw in my Johnson pump I have sitting around. For some reason, no one has written a simple and easy instruction to do this. It should be just as simple as find a positive (key-on) from the relay box under the hood, hook it up to a 30amp relay, that is hot wire to the battery then when the ignition is switch on, the positive from the relay box will turn the relay on to turn the pump on using power from the battery. I wish someone will just post up the exact relay to buy, the wires to tap into, which wire goes where, etc.
05-31-2007, 11:06 PM
#12
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Does anyone know specific instructions for how to wire the Johnson pump for full time operation. From what I read this is the one to go with:
http://www.johnson-pump.com/JPmarine...tion/cm90.html
Also I believe a 30amp heavy duty relay is necessary per e55 killer... would the tech know where to put that?
Thinking that if I was to throw on a pulley, might as well toss in the Johnson pump.
http://www.johnson-pump.com/JPmarine...tion/cm90.html
Also I believe a 30amp heavy duty relay is necessary per e55 killer... would the tech know where to put that?
Thinking that if I was to throw on a pulley, might as well toss in the Johnson pump.
05-31-2007, 11:07 PM
#13
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LOL... You beat me to it! 
For some reason, I thought I have read that it comes on when the supercharger is engage. This is possible with us, cause the E55 has a supercharger clutch to engage the supercharger so the supercharger is not always on when the crank pulley is spinning.
I will also rig my replaced pump to be on all the time soon and maybe just throw in my Johnson pump I have sitting around. For some reason, no one has written a simple and easy instruction to do this. It should be just as simple as find a positive (key-on) from the relay box under the hood, hook it up to a 30amp relay, that is hot wire to the battery then when the ignition is switch on, the positive from the relay box will turn the relay on to turn the pump on using power from the battery. I wish someone will just post up the exact relay to buy, the wires to tap into, which wire goes where, etc.
I will also rig my replaced pump to be on all the time soon and maybe just throw in my Johnson pump I have sitting around. For some reason, no one has written a simple and easy instruction to do this. It should be just as simple as find a positive (key-on) from the relay box under the hood, hook it up to a 30amp relay, that is hot wire to the battery then when the ignition is switch on, the positive from the relay box will turn the relay on to turn the pump on using power from the battery. I wish someone will just post up the exact relay to buy, the wires to tap into, which wire goes where, etc.
05-31-2007, 11:34 PM
#14
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last weeked i wired my oem i/c pump and fan to a toggle switch and have been doing some data logging. so far with a stock i/c system there is a small decrease in average iat's but no decrease in peak temps. i'm still testing and need more time to assess the mod. at this point, save your time and money before doing any rewiring until i can collect more info.
05-31-2007, 11:51 PM
#15
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Fair enough... but I want to rig the Johnson for full time operation. Now, isn't this pump on the cooling kits being sold? If so, then the wiring instructions for the setup should be fairly easy to acquire.
last weeked i wired my oem i/c pump and fan to a toggle switch and have been doing some data logging. so far with a stock i/c system there is a small decrease in average iat's but no decrease in peak temps. i'm still testing and need more time to assess the mod. at this point, save your time and money before doing any rewiring until i can collect more info.
05-31-2007, 11:55 PM
#16
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If it is an issue on your vehilce, then it will either lose power or the SC will shut down. In either one of the cases take it to the dealer and they will replace the IC pump. Haven't heard of a recall on this issue.
06-01-2007, 04:51 AM
#18
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Still a bit puzzled why this system has not been rigged to run off a mechanical pump from the motor...? Variable crank speed will pump more coolant as required when revs get up ... sure might dent cruising economy - but these cars are not designed for economy right?
There are three restrictions to the cololing system in our cars.
1. Weak pump (prone to failure - slow to engage)
2. Small I/C
3. Small Heatexchanger
1 can be fixed very easily a la Johnson pump.
3 can be fixed resonably easily - with a few kits a la finny, Evosport and victors WIP VRIC (?) shall we call it? ... these all help IAT RECOVERY allot.
I am somewhat doubtfull (with the possible exception of the VRIC) that peak IATS will not be helped much with the above though ... the quick recovery will avoid S/C shutdown but IAT peaks will remain high.
To fix peak IATs you need a bigger / more efficient I/C - i.e. you need to fix #2. This is both the biggest headache to change / modify and is the most costly. Renntech's SLR style coolers should help here but it seems their performance has not lived up to expectation? Correct me if I am wrong here. The SLR I/C's are best - as Finny is doing - but thats big $$$ - and you will need a big heatexchanger to make sure the system works right.
The other option to solve all the above is an Aquamist or similar water injection ... This I think is possibly the best solution to gets PEAK IAT's down .. but is / will be a PITA to tune .... The system being setup to cool rather than increase octane ... so no methenol ... much easier and less hassle.
Injecting water just after S/C - just before I/C - (in that 90 degree curve) I think is best entry point (hottest IAT point) - and with a system calibrated to inject water at a constant ratio to fuel you could be in for some serious power gains... now if we can only get the ECU will play ball.....:
There are three restrictions to the cololing system in our cars.
1. Weak pump (prone to failure - slow to engage)
2. Small I/C
3. Small Heatexchanger
1 can be fixed very easily a la Johnson pump.
3 can be fixed resonably easily - with a few kits a la finny, Evosport and victors WIP VRIC (?) shall we call it? ... these all help IAT RECOVERY allot.
I am somewhat doubtfull (with the possible exception of the VRIC) that peak IATS will not be helped much with the above though ... the quick recovery will avoid S/C shutdown but IAT peaks will remain high.
To fix peak IATs you need a bigger / more efficient I/C - i.e. you need to fix #2. This is both the biggest headache to change / modify and is the most costly. Renntech's SLR style coolers should help here but it seems their performance has not lived up to expectation? Correct me if I am wrong here. The SLR I/C's are best - as Finny is doing - but thats big $$$ - and you will need a big heatexchanger to make sure the system works right.
The other option to solve all the above is an Aquamist or similar water injection ... This I think is possibly the best solution to gets PEAK IAT's down .. but is / will be a PITA to tune .... The system being setup to cool rather than increase octane ... so no methenol ... much easier and less hassle.
Injecting water just after S/C - just before I/C - (in that 90 degree curve) I think is best entry point (hottest IAT point) - and with a system calibrated to inject water at a constant ratio to fuel you could be in for some serious power gains... now if we can only get the ECU will play ball.....:
Last edited by stevebez; 06-01-2007 at 05:11 AM.
