The car is totalled, I have a credit question
06-08-2007, 06:52 PM
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Viper SRT10
The car is totalled, I have a credit question
Basically next week the bank is gonna get a check to satisfy the loan.
My question is this. The loan is obviously still on my credit and if I went to a dealer say today to apply for another loan on a car, it would probably effect my score.
So my question is this. Once the bank recieves the check from the insurance and the loan is satisfied and everyone is happy. How long will it take to reflect on my credit.
I basically want to know when I can expect to be able to walk into a dealer and buy a new car without having the current totalled car loan still on my files. I realize no one may have this answer but any ideas would be great.
My question is this. The loan is obviously still on my credit and if I went to a dealer say today to apply for another loan on a car, it would probably effect my score.
So my question is this. Once the bank recieves the check from the insurance and the loan is satisfied and everyone is happy. How long will it take to reflect on my credit.
I basically want to know when I can expect to be able to walk into a dealer and buy a new car without having the current totalled car loan still on my files. I realize no one may have this answer but any ideas would be great.
06-08-2007, 07:26 PM
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As mentioned above, if your credit is good and you have depth you should not have an issue getting another loan. The paperwork showing that your loan will be satisfied will be enough for almost any lender.
Credit Fico scores (Experian) generally are not affected by closing a loan unless you had too many open in the first place (autos). Fico auto 2 scores are upgraded if you have 1 open auto, nuetral with 2 open autos, and then your score gets a negative impact with 3 open autos or more. This isnt to say that you will have a bad credit score with 3 or more open car loans but it may not be higher than someone with one car loan open and all other credit lines being equal.
The highest scores I have seen are those with limited to zero revolving debt and one or zero open car loans. When I worked for Lexus I got my cars via the factory so nothing was on my bureau so when I went to get my first car with credit my score was 863. The next year I got two more cars and leased them and my score was down to 784. Age of credit and the amount of new credit is a greater impact on your score than if your car loan is open.
Credit Fico scores (Experian) generally are not affected by closing a loan unless you had too many open in the first place (autos). Fico auto 2 scores are upgraded if you have 1 open auto, nuetral with 2 open autos, and then your score gets a negative impact with 3 open autos or more. This isnt to say that you will have a bad credit score with 3 or more open car loans but it may not be higher than someone with one car loan open and all other credit lines being equal.
The highest scores I have seen are those with limited to zero revolving debt and one or zero open car loans. When I worked for Lexus I got my cars via the factory so nothing was on my bureau so when I went to get my first car with credit my score was 863. The next year I got two more cars and leased them and my score was down to 784. Age of credit and the amount of new credit is a greater impact on your score than if your car loan is open.
06-08-2007, 07:31 PM
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06-08-2007, 08:08 PM
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As mentioned above, if your credit is good and you have depth you should not have an issue getting another loan. The paperwork showing that your loan will be satisfied will be enough for almost any lender.
Credit Fico scores (Experian) generally are not affected by closing a loan unless you had too many open in the first place (autos). Fico auto 2 scores are upgraded if you have 1 open auto, nuetral with 2 open autos, and then your score gets a negative impact with 3 open autos or more. This isnt to say that you will have a bad credit score with 3 or more open car loans but it may not be higher than someone with one car loan open and all other credit lines being equal.
The highest scores I have seen are those with limited to zero revolving debt and one or zero open car loans. When I worked for Lexus I got my cars via the factory so nothing was on my bureau so when I went to get my first car with credit my score was 863. The next year I got two more cars and leased them and my score was down to 784. Age of credit and the amount of new credit is a greater impact on your score than if your car loan is open.
Credit Fico scores (Experian) generally are not affected by closing a loan unless you had too many open in the first place (autos). Fico auto 2 scores are upgraded if you have 1 open auto, nuetral with 2 open autos, and then your score gets a negative impact with 3 open autos or more. This isnt to say that you will have a bad credit score with 3 or more open car loans but it may not be higher than someone with one car loan open and all other credit lines being equal.
The highest scores I have seen are those with limited to zero revolving debt and one or zero open car loans. When I worked for Lexus I got my cars via the factory so nothing was on my bureau so when I went to get my first car with credit my score was 863. The next year I got two more cars and leased them and my score was down to 784. Age of credit and the amount of new credit is a greater impact on your score than if your car loan is open.
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06-08-2007, 08:23 PM
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06-08-2007, 09:08 PM
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06-09-2007, 01:24 AM
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Says who? As I referred in my post I was talking about Fico Auto 2, which is one of probably 10 different Fico band programs. I have seen scores even higher. Show me where it says 850 is the highest? Maybe under a certain Fico Band but not under the Auto 2 program which is used by all major banks to score their applicants when purchasing a car loan (if using Experian).
The mortgage industry uses other bands and most use the tri merge option.
Credit Expert doesnt use the Fico Auto 2 score. Since the OP wanted to know about his credit in relation to a future auto purchase I shared with him my experiences with local So Cal car dealerships. 830 might be their cap using a different fico band but I have seen several 860 scores and even an 869 score most recently on a retired applicant who had credit going back to the 70's. I wish I could post the scores but that would be a privacy violation not to mention grounds for dismissal where I work 
The mortgage industry uses other bands and most use the tri merge option.
06-09-2007, 01:54 AM
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Says who? As I referred in my post I was talking about Fico Auto 2, which is one of probably 10 different Fico band programs. I have seen scores even higher. Show me where it says 850 is the highest? Maybe under a certain Fico Band but not under the Auto 2 program which is used by all major banks to score their applicants when purchasing a car loan (if using Experian).
The mortgage industry uses other bands and most use the tri merge option.
Credit Expert doesnt use the Fico Auto 2 score. Since the OP wanted to know about his credit in relation to a future auto purchase I shared with him my experiences with local So Cal car dealerships. 830 might be their cap using a different fico band but I have seen several 860 scores and even an 869 score most recently on a retired applicant who had credit going back to the 70's. I wish I could post the scores but that would be a privacy violation not to mention grounds for dismissal where I work
The mortgage industry uses other bands and most use the tri merge option.
Credit Expert doesnt use the Fico Auto 2 score. Since the OP wanted to know about his credit in relation to a future auto purchase I shared with him my experiences with local So Cal car dealerships. 830 might be their cap using a different fico band but I have seen several 860 scores and even an 869 score most recently on a retired applicant who had credit going back to the 70's. I wish I could post the scores but that would be a privacy violation not to mention grounds for dismissal where I work
06-09-2007, 01:56 AM
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Says who? As I referred in my post I was talking about Fico Auto 2, which is one of probably 10 different Fico band programs. I have seen scores even higher. Show me where it says 850 is the highest? Maybe under a certain Fico Band but not under the Auto 2 program which is used by all major banks to score their applicants when purchasing a car loan (if using Experian).
The mortgage industry uses other bands and most use the tri merge option.
Credit Expert doesnt use the Fico Auto 2 score. Since the OP wanted to know about his credit in relation to a future auto purchase I shared with him my experiences with local So Cal car dealerships. 830 might be their cap using a different fico band but I have seen several 860 scores and even an 869 score most recently on a retired applicant who had credit going back to the 70's. I wish I could post the scores but that would be a privacy violation not to mention grounds for dismissal where I work
The mortgage industry uses other bands and most use the tri merge option.
Credit Expert doesnt use the Fico Auto 2 score. Since the OP wanted to know about his credit in relation to a future auto purchase I shared with him my experiences with local So Cal car dealerships. 830 might be their cap using a different fico band but I have seen several 860 scores and even an 869 score most recently on a retired applicant who had credit going back to the 70's. I wish I could post the scores but that would be a privacy violation not to mention grounds for dismissal where I work
How do I access my Fico Auto 2 score? I've been dealing with the regular fico system and really want to know how I do on the special Fico 2 Auto score system. I’ve been shooting for a perfect 850 on the regular scale, what do I have to do to reach the max on the Auto 2 scale?
06-09-2007, 11:42 AM
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Hey Vic,
How do I access my Fico Auto 2 score? I've been dealing with the regular fico system and really want to know how I do on the special Fico 2 Auto score system. I’ve been shooting for a perfect 850 on the regular scale, what do I have to do to reach the max on the Auto 2 scale?
How do I access my Fico Auto 2 score? I've been dealing with the regular fico system and really want to know how I do on the special Fico 2 Auto score system. I’ve been shooting for a perfect 850 on the regular scale, what do I have to do to reach the max on the Auto 2 scale?
As for getting the auto 2 score ... I have not seen a place on the internet where you can get it. Dealerships have it and so do the banks but thats through their contracts with bureau providers but not to the general public.
06-09-2007, 01:04 PM
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FICO is not only from Experian... based on my experience, assuming the 3 credit bureaus capture your credit file quite consistently (there are some but rare cases where 3 credit bureaus have completely inconsistent files), Experian usually gives you the lowest FICO, Trans Union 2nd and Equifax 3rd. The difference could range by 20-30 points, which is big.
FICO Auto 2 score is just a specific Fair Isaac's model for auto industry. The upper limit range, I think, is 900 or 950, while the generic one (used by most lenders and available online) is 850.
I don't think all auto industries use FICO Auto 2 as it is more expensive than generic FICO. No surprise... since it is designed specifically for auto industry, it should be more predictive than generic FICO. I know Toyota & Lexus use it (I saw it from TV ads
). Not sure what else...
As for OP's question:
I think if you are thinking of getting the loan from the same bank, you should not worry at all unless you will get a lot larger loan or your credit history is significantly different from that when you applied for your old loan (some late payments, etc.).
Plus, if your bank has an issue b/c you have an open auto loan, you could show the pay-off statement and tell them that it's not updated at the credit bureau. Chances are they will override the decision.
But either way... no matter how many open loans or how high credit cards' debt, if your generic FICO score is above 720 or 740, you should be fine.
FICO Auto 2 score is just a specific Fair Isaac's model for auto industry. The upper limit range, I think, is 900 or 950, while the generic one (used by most lenders and available online) is 850.
I don't think all auto industries use FICO Auto 2 as it is more expensive than generic FICO. No surprise... since it is designed specifically for auto industry, it should be more predictive than generic FICO. I know Toyota & Lexus use it (I saw it from TV ads
). Not sure what else...As for OP's question:
I think if you are thinking of getting the loan from the same bank, you should not worry at all unless you will get a lot larger loan or your credit history is significantly different from that when you applied for your old loan (some late payments, etc.).
Plus, if your bank has an issue b/c you have an open auto loan, you could show the pay-off statement and tell them that it's not updated at the credit bureau. Chances are they will override the decision.
But either way... no matter how many open loans or how high credit cards' debt, if your generic FICO score is above 720 or 740, you should be fine.
06-09-2007, 01:12 PM
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Hey Vic,
How do I access my Fico Auto 2 score? I've been dealing with the regular fico system and really want to know how I do on the special Fico 2 Auto score system. I’ve been shooting for a perfect 850 on the regular scale, what do I have to do to reach the max on the Auto 2 scale?
How do I access my Fico Auto 2 score? I've been dealing with the regular fico system and really want to know how I do on the special Fico 2 Auto score system. I’ve been shooting for a perfect 850 on the regular scale, what do I have to do to reach the max on the Auto 2 scale?
Generic FICO is weak for thin and young file and overly punishing any negative items (derog or BK). If you have a child who just turned 18 and you open a credit card or add him/her as authorized user, check the FICO after 1-2 months. You will see his/her FICO score is off the chart.
Having said that, I don't think you are able to get to 850.... plus, you think 850 is good? I'd bet you will receive fewer credit card solicitation.... and won't feel any difference when getting a secured loan (auto, mortgage, etc.). Banks usually treat anyone w/ FICO 720+ the same - so having FICO 730 vs. 840 won't make any difference.
06-09-2007, 01:15 PM
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Fico is used with all three bureaus as Zoink mentioned but Fico Auto 2 as I was talking about is paired with Experian. Trans Union's pairing with Fico is Classic Auto 4 and Equifax's pairing is called Beacon 5.0 Auto Industry Option. Of course these are some of the auto variations and as I stated there are others.
I worked for Lexus for 9 years, we used it. The bank I work for now uses it as well. Almost all lenders, at least in my market that run Experian use the Fico Auto 2 model. While it may not be their primary bureau of choice, it is the model when they use Experian.
Chase and B of A use all three bureaus and will associate the highest score to obtain the most competitive pricing. I guarantee in my securitizations that only Experian will be used in our pricing acquistions. Generally the bureaus are regionalized with most banks in the South using the Beacon. From what I have heard, the most accurate bureau indicative of credit is currently Equifax.
I worked for Lexus for 9 years, we used it. The bank I work for now uses it as well. Almost all lenders, at least in my market that run Experian use the Fico Auto 2 model. While it may not be their primary bureau of choice, it is the model when they use Experian.
Chase and B of A use all three bureaus and will associate the highest score to obtain the most competitive pricing. I guarantee in my securitizations that only Experian will be used in our pricing acquistions. Generally the bureaus are regionalized with most banks in the South using the Beacon. From what I have heard, the most accurate bureau indicative of credit is currently Equifax.
06-09-2007, 01:21 PM
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Vic, I think the name is just for marketing ploy.
From what I know,
Generic FICO is called: FICO at Experian, Empirica at Trans Union and Beacon at Equifax.
The numbers refer to the versions Fair Isaac has issued. But pretty much, Fair Isaac developed different risk models for each credit bureau and aligned them - so the same score means the same (or at least similar) across the bureaus.
I'm not surprised if a lot of lenders use Experian... the scores from them are known to be the most conservative Not sure whether it's intentional or just a flaw Fair Isaac has.
BTW, the 3 bureaus have joint forces now... they develop a model to compete head to head w/ generic FICO. Fair Isaac seems to have gone greedy and charges a fortune for their models.
From what I know,
Generic FICO is called: FICO at Experian, Empirica at Trans Union and Beacon at Equifax.
The numbers refer to the versions Fair Isaac has issued. But pretty much, Fair Isaac developed different risk models for each credit bureau and aligned them - so the same score means the same (or at least similar) across the bureaus.
I'm not surprised if a lot of lenders use Experian... the scores from them are known to be the most conservative
Not sure whether it's intentional or just a flaw Fair Isaac has.BTW, the 3 bureaus have joint forces now... they develop a model to compete head to head w/ generic FICO. Fair Isaac seems to have gone greedy and charges a fortune for their models.
06-09-2007, 01:21 PM
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It doesnt matter -- as soon as the bank gets the check, you can ask for a quick fax stating the the loan has been paid off; or you can show proof that the car has been totalled and is being paid off by your insurance and bring it with you to the dealership ... they will forward it to the new bank you are applying for and all will be fine and dandy.
06-09-2007, 01:26 PM
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Vic, I think the name is just for marketing ploy.
From what I know,
Generic FICO is called: FICO at Experian, Empirica at Trans Union and Beacon at Equifax.
The numbers refer to the versions Fair Isaac has issued. But pretty much, Fair Isaac developed different risk models for each credit bureau and aligned them - so the same score means the same (or at least similar) across the bureaus.
I'm not surprised if a lot of lenders use Experian... the scores from them are known to be the most conservative Not sure whether it's intentional or just a flaw Fair Isaac has.
BTW, the 3 bureaus have joint forces now... they develop a model to compete head to head w/ generic FICO. Fair Isaac seems to have gone greedy and charges a fortune for their models.
From what I know,
Generic FICO is called: FICO at Experian, Empirica at Trans Union and Beacon at Equifax.
The numbers refer to the versions Fair Isaac has issued. But pretty much, Fair Isaac developed different risk models for each credit bureau and aligned them - so the same score means the same (or at least similar) across the bureaus.
I'm not surprised if a lot of lenders use Experian... the scores from them are known to be the most conservative
Not sure whether it's intentional or just a flaw Fair Isaac has.BTW, the 3 bureaus have joint forces now... they develop a model to compete head to head w/ generic FICO. Fair Isaac seems to have gone greedy and charges a fortune for their models.
Oh I agree its all about the bottom line and making the money at the end of the day.
I am glad we use Experian because I still, for the life of me, have issues reading Equifax. TransUnion is not so much an issue.
As much as FICO is important, my bank has internal score cards (most do) which predict bad rates (default rates) at a much higher clip than that of FICO. This is why I can give loans to 400 scores and decline 700 scores that truly dont deserve those scores--- at least in the auto industry.
06-09-2007, 08:43 PM
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Oh I agree its all about the bottom line and making the money at the end of the day.
I am glad we use Experian because I still, for the life of me, have issues reading Equifax. TransUnion is not so much an issue.
As much as FICO is important, my bank has internal score cards (most do) which predict bad rates (default rates) at a much higher clip than that of FICO. This is why I can give loans to 400 scores and decline 700 scores that truly dont deserve those scores--- at least in the auto industry.
I am glad we use Experian because I still, for the life of me, have issues reading Equifax. TransUnion is not so much an issue.
As much as FICO is important, my bank has internal score cards (most do) which predict bad rates (default rates) at a much higher clip than that of FICO. This is why I can give loans to 400 scores and decline 700 scores that truly dont deserve those scores--- at least in the auto industry.
haha
06-09-2007, 08:50 PM
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Oh I agree its all about the bottom line and making the money at the end of the day.
I am glad we use Experian because I still, for the life of me, have issues reading Equifax. TransUnion is not so much an issue.
As much as FICO is important, my bank has internal score cards (most do) which predict bad rates (default rates) at a much higher clip than that of FICO. This is why I can give loans to 400 scores and decline 700 scores that truly dont deserve those scores--- at least in the auto industry.
I am glad we use Experian because I still, for the life of me, have issues reading Equifax. TransUnion is not so much an issue.
As much as FICO is important, my bank has internal score cards (most do) which predict bad rates (default rates) at a much higher clip than that of FICO. This is why I can give loans to 400 scores and decline 700 scores that truly dont deserve those scores--- at least in the auto industry.
Otherwise, can't do it due to NDA from my company. My rate is for sure a lot cheaper than hiring Fair Isaac or other modeling companies.
06-10-2007, 12:07 AM
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Sorry to hear about the car. I hope everyone is ok.
Vic or Zionk,
Correct me if I'm wrong but it was my understanding that the Auto FICO is usually a tad higher than the basic FICO for someone that had +3-5 car loans paid off in good standing.
Vic or Zionk,
Correct me if I'm wrong but it was my understanding that the Auto FICO is usually a tad higher than the basic FICO for someone that had +3-5 car loans paid off in good standing.
