R. Range

Noticed several of you 55'ers posting on the C63 part of the board, so I know I'm not the only one keeping an eye out for news about the car and wondering whether it might be a viable alternative to an E55/63. This makes sense, as the C sounds like it will offer a lot of what has drawn many of us to the E AMG--the lightest car with the top-dog AMG motor (excluding the V12's, of course, which are in a completely different zip code pricewise), which as a nice bonus also happens to be the least expensive. I realize that an SLK63 is apparently also in the works, but the C is the more natural comparison to our cars as it's a 4 door sedan. Anyway, here are some thoughts on the E v. C, and I'm interested to hear what some of the rest of you are thinking.

Looks: I've always thought the E is a great looking sedan, especially with a few minor modifications (wheels, flat hood badge and aftermarket grill, etc.). However, the C looks incredibly good. I've seen a C300 w/sport package up close, which had the AMG bodywork and AMG wheels, and it looked incredible. The front end has a lot of CL styling in it with the similar headlights, and the rear appears to draw on the S/Maybach styling. As a brand new design, there is no question IMO that the C looks newer and more "updated" than the existing E series (of course a new E will be out not too long after the C63 debuts, but I'd say the AMG version of the next E will be at least a year or two after the C63).

Peformance: I don't buy the "detuned" party line from MBZ on the C63 any more than I bought the same line about the E55 v. SL/CL/S55, so my hunch is the C will be underrrated from the factory. And even if it's not, given that it's the same basic engine I don't think it would take much to restore whatever tuning/exhaust changes that were made to reduce the power. So in stock form one has to assume the C63 should be a little faster than the E63, due to its lighter weight. Now from an aftermarket standpoint, the 55 may still be the best platform to mod, although I admit I'm not very familiar with what can be done to the 63 engines as I don't have one. While more an aesthetic than a performance issue, if the exhaust sound on some of the C63 spy clips floating around is the stock exhaust, that alone would be worth considering the car.

Price: Supposedly the target is 63k, which I assume is the base price, so a well equipped C should run around 70k if that holds. Obviously this is ~20k less than a comparably equipped E.

Prestige: This is the first obvious downside to the C, as it is still the baby brother of the MBZ line, and no amount of hormone injections are going to change the fact that there will be $35k versions of the car running around (and running around in large numbers unless I miss my guess, as the $39k sport package/nav car I saw looks like BMW's worst nightmare, IMO).

Handling: Apparently MBZ has made a very serious effort to combat the distinct impression that previous AMG models have inferior driving dynamics to their M counterparts, and "first drive" reports so far indicate they may have a serious competitor to the new M3 in the handling department. If true, the C63 may well handle significantly better than the existing E55/63.

Ride: While handling at the limits is one thing, ride is another, and I'm assuming the C will not have the air suspension system of the E class, and may not feel as "solid" overall as well. So even if the C is a better track car, it may not feel as luxurious in every day driving.

While there still isn't enough info to make an intelligent decision, I think the C may be a viable alternative to the W211 E55/63, at least for those who can live with a somewhat smaller sedan. Thoughts?

MercedesFTW

63 is still a N/A engine. $$$ to mod.

OzE55

Well said.
We will just have to wait and see how this pans out. Like you, I'm considering switching across the model lines to avoid the big depreciation hit that comes with an all new E class arriving in (???) 2009. I need the 4 doors, but I understand the interior dimensions of the new C class wont be dramatically different to the current E class (perhaps the only true example of 'size doesn't matter' ?).

E63ory

I have been debating this very subjuect in my head lately, as a recent purchaser of an E63. I have no doubt that the C63 will be more nimble, as the E is still a big car. It won't have the same cache, however, as it will still have the underpinnings of a c class. I can't wait to see it in person, drive it, and will most likely buy it when my lease is up in 30 months, unless the upcoming E63tt is reasonabley priced (i.e., not over 100K), and will lease as good as this one did (I still can't beleive that I am driving such an expensive car for what I am paying per moth...)

R. Range

Kudos for mentioning the depreciation factor, as I forgot about that and it's a good point. I'm not sure if anything depreciates much faster than most of the AMG cars, and while that may be true of the C63 within 2-3 years as well, at least you'd be starting from a significantly lower price point.

jangy

Or should we ait for the next generation E?

MB_Forever

You are absolutely right about Mercedes underrating the C63. I think the C63 will have 507 hp just like all the other 63 engines and because it is a smaller and more compact sedan, it will have much better handling, and because it is 700 lbs lighter, it will also have much better performance than all the other 63 AMGs. It will most likely be the FASTEST stock mercedes until the SLK63 comes out (excluding 65s of course).

I examined the new C300 carefully at my local dealership, and here are some thoughts.

Positive
=====

- The car looks amazing from the front: very aggressive, very sport, and very unique.

- The handling and the overall feel behind the wheel has been improved at least 3 to 4 times than before. The car feels fast, very responsive, and extremely accurate in fast turns.

- The car has the BEST navigation screen I've seen yet. The screen is big, produces vivid colors, and has a chrome-like plate surrounding the screen, which gives it a very elegant look.

- Mercedes finally produced a MUCH BETTER navigation software and interface. The C-Class borrows this from the S-Class navigation, which is now completely voice operatable.

- You can watch DVD movies while the car is parked. Again, very nice screen.

- The entertainment system includes 4 GB of free space for the user to store music, videos, pictures, or even data on.

- Much more user-friendly blue tooth software.



Negative
======

- The interior quality is the WORST quality I've seen on any mercedes yet: the buttons look very cheap; same with the leather on the seats, which feels very crappy, and finally the sound of the doors closing pretty much wraps up the overall low-quality feel.

- The seat adjustment buttons are now under (and to the side) of the seat and not on the door like it always have been. And since the C-Class has less room, this makes it harder to reach for those buttons.

- Mercedes dropped the memory feature of the seats for some reason off the C-Class ? It does not even seem to be available as an option???? Maybe it will be available on the C63, but who knows.

- The steering wheel can no longer be adjusted electronically, it is now manually adjustable. Again, this may be different on AMGs.

- Although the car's front-end is good, the back-end looks way too common. The rear-end just does not give the wow impression of the front. I find it too common, too generic, and looks like a hundai.

- Still no parktronic, distronic, air suspension, and all the other goodies.

hakaida442

All very good points. Great thread. I am in the market for a 4 dr sedan for work and at first the C63 caught my eye. The one big potential negative for me is that on occasion, I will have to put clients in the back so I need to check on the legroom on the new C-class. Another good point was taken on the price. While the price is much lower than the E63 and around the same of the new M3, paying mid 70s for a fully loaded one is sometimes hard to swallow considering it's based off a C-class.

tscales

I can't get past the new nose. Clearly inspired by the Chrysler Sebring, and not in the C class's favor.

It is not a distinctive Mercedes look. It is a generic Chrysler look. I am really disappointed.

ProjectC55

Perhaps this C63 car will be a consistant low 12 sec car. I definitely feel sorry for the new V8 M3. Won't be such a great party for the AMG E63 and the E60 BMW M5 either.

SleeperX

What about the 335i? Twin-turbo? I wonder if anyone has started to upgrade these cars. We have seen what happens to P-cars when you upgrade the turbos.

R. Range

Been going on for quite a while, actually. The 335's are underrated from the factory and most put down around 280 rwhp or more to begin with, and you can bump them up another 75-100 hp/ft lbs with just ecu tuning and exhaust. Makes you wonder what's going to happen when they put larger turbos on them. And with the 135 headed this way next spring, that might be a fun little ride as well.

Jrocket

I have one,as well as a few other here on the site.Some of us have them modded already with great results.

jangy

I agree that the 335i is a sweet project car. I'm already seeing mods coming out for it and it hasn't even been out that long. I also like how the look is so stealth. The ones that our folks have are white and look gorgeous!!

Jakpro1

I gotta admit the latest review of the C63 sounded pretty much "spot on" for an M3/5. Been great to finally read some real positive stuff on the handling end for AMG.

Edmunds was just freaking over it. Can't wait to take this thing on a test drive.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121540

OzE55

The Edmunds photots show the seat adjustment back on the doors.

2K6E55

Yeah, with a simple ECU tune (Vishnu v2.0 along with exhaust/DP), the 335i can achieve 380+rwhp/400+rwtq.

kip

I love how the C63 looks and I think the power is there, but sadly its still a C-klasse and when I test drove the car, it felt small (although maybe slightly bigger than the old one)...

ProjectC55

Remember "C" = compact,but the main thing is the fact that they have this big displacement motor in the car.

You're not buying this car or a normal "C" class for roominess. The same reason why you're not buying a BMW M3.

Want more room then we obviously know we have to buy an "E" or an "S" class. ("Executive"or "Supersedan").

We are more concerned with the performance of this car(power and handling). At least I am.

amgplayer

The C63 interior will be as upscale as a C55/C32. The C300 I saw (no test drive) was there only for the purpose of showing the exterior, base interior and new controls. The seat were the MB-tex and there were no options, 18" wheels. The nav/controls are good. The down side is that the screen will always have to come out of it's shell lending itself to wear and tear and future failures. The C350 sport will more likely have an upgrade interior. Based on the Euro seats we have seen, the US seats should be entertaining. It will not be nearly as upscale as the E55/63 interior. This will be about what MB can do in a small chassis, big motor, and finally a techno handling package. I'm thinking a white one.

buckeyewalt

I still think that there will be enough difference between the C63 and the E63 in terms of horsepower. Look what MB did to the CLK63, it got detuned....and how about the S63, it got almost 10 additional ponies more than the E63. All 63 engines are not created equal! I think that MB can play with the exhaust, and ECU enough to get a few more or reduce a few horses enough to justify a price.

ProjectC55

The engines are all equal. It's the tuning of the ECU and perhaps the exh that make them different. I believe this is what you are trying to say.

rkao

IMHO, the C63 AMG will be a very interesting proposition on its own and in the market place, but not necessarily a direct comparison nor competition to the E63, whether it be the W211 or W212 generation. MB/AMG has done a decent job of avoiding cannibalizing its own product lines so far...

Certainly in my case with a family, the C-klasse is too small for me to consider and hence the E63 for me. So some practical considerations (yes, even with an emotional product like the AMG) often helps to determine the vehicle chosen.

A good case study could be the expected V8 powered E90 M3 saloon and how, if at all, it cannibalizes sales of the E60 M5. Certainly, BMW M will move the upcoming F10 M5 into a different realm if the M3 saloon comes too close to the E60 M5.

And I think MB/AMG will make the C63 sufficiently different and upgraded than the top of the line C350 Sport to give it proper stature within the product lineup.

It's amazing to me that MB still offers MB-Tex as standard upholstery in even the E350 that the C300 is undoubtedly saddled with this material as well. Perhaps the C350 will even come with the Tex as standard...don't know as I've not seen the new C brochure and have only seen the car (a C300 Sport) from the outside at my dealer.

KrisKeeney

regarding difference b/t E63 and upcoming C63:
1. if the interior will be the same as the current new C300, it will be too tight in the cockpit and back seats; I sat in one the other day, and the interior space was markedly smaller
2. as mentioned somewhere in this thread:
a. interior of the C appears cheapy/plasticy; no warm wood-ness to it at all
b. what? adjust the seats manually? no way; this was a seriously flawed decision by MB, in my view;

I am going to hold out for an E63 when a lease special comes down the pike

Thanks for all entries
Kris Keeney
Richmond, VA

buckeyewalt

You know, I guess that's what I mean...I still think that AMG can tinker with some of the components to make the change more dramatic. I just got my C&D magazine, and it sayd the C63 "only" has 451 hp and 431 ft.lb., to me that is more than an ECU change of a simple exhaust bolt on. Maybe a subtle cam change or something else to get those numbers. I think the difference between the E and S is ECU, but from C to E "I" think they did something to the engine.