Vadim @ FD

I just finished upgarding client's E55 to a Quaife and EvoI Power Package.

Before I let any car out of the shop, I scan and record OBDII data to verify proper operation.

This 55 has a bad IC pump as can be seen from high (over 200F) Intake Air Temperatures.






P.S. Although 55s do not have MAFs, speed denstiy converts throttle position, manifold pressure and intake air temperature into MAF airflow value.

Jrocket

Very nice Vadim.Any chance of getting the same graph put up after you fix the IC pump,showing the results.

jmf003

Interesting to see the information graphically, Vadim. Thanks!

What kind of timing advance numbers would we see if the IATs were lower?

Vadim @ FD

As soon as I fix the pump, I will post new graph.

As far as timing, it should be in 14-16 range. It is at 6 right now.

Vadim @ FD

Just spoke with client. Pump was replaced by a dealer two months ago. We verified that the pump was not working by applying 12V to it. It is going back to the dealer at this time.

When I have a chance I will post a graph with a working pump.

JAYCL600

Heres my CL600 WOT in a 80mph-150mph roll 80 degree ambient 93 oct fuel IAT 145 degrees: FYI the timing is "backwards" for example -10 is 10 degrees of advance not retard per my software

AMGfan

You would think the MB would invest in a permanent fix...the days of MB SA's living in denial (partly because of the intermittent nature of the pump malfunction) should be over given this type of graphical evidence.

Is the cost/benefit ratio that skewed to them keeping the problem as is, rather than going towards a more permanent solution? It's a tough pill to swallow to pay this amount of money for the brand name AMG and it's associated performance when it's full potential is hampered by a sub par IC pump...not to mention the downtime of the car's use, lost time by owner, and money spent diagnosing the problem on our own.

Just ranting...

Vadim @ FD

Jason, The DME is pulling timing out.

There is detonation at 8 and 14 intervals and than again at 30 and 33.

If IAT was 145F, than it was gas octane.

Try some 100 octane and record again.

JAYCL600

yes IAT's never broke 150 today and I was running 93 octane, my tune seems very sensitive to fuel octane changes, I am getting some tonight and might shoot for a 102-104oct mix, I will let it adapt to the fuel for about 50 miles then retest. Thanks for the help Vadim.

rflow306

Jason, Vadim is 100% correct what you see on the graph is being caused by detonation which the dme uses the knock sensors to detect.

I have attached some interesting info from the WIS on how the cl600 control boost. Especially the first paragraph on the right side of the third page. 70 degrees Celsius = 158 degrees Fahrenheit. Higher iats will cause the dme to lower the boost.

blackbenzz

You guys remind me of a group of scientists trying to find a solution to a problem. Great work! I wanna quit being a biotech scientist and become a automotive one

JAYCL600

now that is quite interesting, thanks for the find bro, I have eclipsed that 158 a few times but not that often, looks like i have some "mods" to do...

Vadim @ FD

Jason, you are welcome!

See if you can record - Intake Air Charge Temperature, Mass-Air Flow, Manifold pressure.

That should help.

JAYCL600

I have a full tank of 104+ and im going back out in a few....ill report back later.

Jason

Vadim @ FD

Good Luck!

ItalianStallion

I think that is one of the major reasons AMG went with the naturally aspirated V8 and its also why a lot of E55 owners switched to E63's.

chiromikey

i'm pretty sure amg isn't phasing out the s/c by choice.

jangy

Why then? (if not by choice) I assumed it was a business decision made with respect to new emissions regulations.

AMGfan

I thought the reason was that European crash standards regarding pedestrian collisions dictated changes in front end configurations with respect to engine type...meaning the supercharger was in the way and NA engine could fit the requirements.

I'm not for sure on this but I've heard this floated in some British car magazines or it could be one of the reasons along with "higher" emissions of the SC 55's.

chiromikey

amgfan nailed it...at least from what i've read from two different sources. (don't ask me for the sources as this was well over a year ago.)

jangy

I had heard that, too. BUT, to think that they can't s/c a car just due to room under the hood is a bit simple. I'd bet that they will be back to what they do best as soon as they are done learning how to build a modern block and head.

AMGfan

I hope so...

JAYCL600

OK just got back from some more testing, conditions were 83 degrees ambient, for the first run here the car was "cold" this was its first full boost pull since warmup, MAP/IAT/Ignition timing advance are logged, this is a 3rd gear roll starting at 80mph roll thru 4th gear shift to about 125mph


Next run conditions were different, I did a few high speed runs to superheat the car, then I had to sit on the side of the road for 15 minutes to get a good clearing to do one last recorded run, this is a 1st-4th gear roll "esp on" from 0 thru 155mph



looks like the fuel helped when it was cool, but when it got hotter it pulled timing again, I cant extrapolate the MAP data so I need some assistance, talk to me, those IAT's are way to high on run 2 for todays ambient......

JAYCL600

u can also see where DME cut boost as IAT's got over 158 in 4th

rflow306

Boost on the first graph starts at around 17.5 psi and tapers down to 14. The second testing session boost started at around 16.04 psi and ended around 12.54 from what I can tell on the graph. The dme was definitely pulsing the waste-gates causing boost fluctuations. The erratic timing on the second pass I think is being caused by the iat's.