SLR Pistons & Rods
10-10-2007, 12:20 PM
#1
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SLR Pistons & Rods
Thinking of dropping in SLR pistons and Rods to reinforce internals... will they fit in our W211 engine, anybody knows how to obtain these and prices...wonder if they are cheap, lol! j/k
10-10-2007, 12:22 PM
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10-10-2007, 12:48 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
It's pricey.. The crank and rods are the same if I remember correctly. Just the pistons are a different part #.
I compared the SLR, CLK-DTM and E55 at one point and have all this data somewhere..
I have an iron sleeve 5.7L forged bottom end solution that is almost ready for primetime..
I figured that with a bunch of cars getting up there in mileage, and people cracking pistons due to detonation, something like this would come in handy.
I'll have pics to show soon..
I compared the SLR, CLK-DTM and E55 at one point and have all this data somewhere..
I have an iron sleeve 5.7L forged bottom end solution that is almost ready for primetime..
I figured that with a bunch of cars getting up there in mileage, and people cracking pistons due to detonation, something like this would come in handy.I'll have pics to show soon..
10-10-2007, 01:02 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
It's pricey.. The crank and rods are the same if I remember correctly. Just the pistons are a different part #.
I compared the SLR, CLK-DTM and E55 at one point and have all this data somewhere..
I have an iron sleeve 5.7L forged bottom end solution that is almost ready for primetime.. I figured that with a bunch of cars getting up there in mileage, and people cracking pistons due to detonation, something like this would come in handy.
I'll have pics to show soon..
I compared the SLR, CLK-DTM and E55 at one point and have all this data somewhere..
I have an iron sleeve 5.7L forged bottom end solution that is almost ready for primetime..
I figured that with a bunch of cars getting up there in mileage, and people cracking pistons due to detonation, something like this would come in handy.I'll have pics to show soon..
10-10-2007, 01:09 PM
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E55
It's pricey.. The crank and rods are the same if I remember correctly. Just the pistons are a different part #.
I compared the SLR, CLK-DTM and E55 at one point and have all this data somewhere..
I have an iron sleeve 5.7L forged bottom end solution that is almost ready for primetime.. I figured that with a bunch of cars getting up there in mileage, and people cracking pistons due to detonation, something like this would come in handy.
I'll have pics to show soon..
I compared the SLR, CLK-DTM and E55 at one point and have all this data somewhere..
I have an iron sleeve 5.7L forged bottom end solution that is almost ready for primetime..
I figured that with a bunch of cars getting up there in mileage, and people cracking pistons due to detonation, something like this would come in handy.I'll have pics to show soon..
How is it going? Do you think it is safe to sleeve these cars with as much HP as they are putting out? How much is this bottom end solution? I assume it will include pistons, rods, etc. And of course the question that is always the most important to me. WHEN CAN I GET IT IN MY HANDS?
10-10-2007, 01:19 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
There are alot of factory built cars that use sleeves (ferrari, GM, etc).
All the LS1/LS2/LS7 GM motors that the tuners are building up with TT kits are running Iron sleeves also.. The great thing with the sleeves is that should you damage one, you simply replace that one sleeve and you are good to go. Of course on the MB block I believe Ted & I are both pioneering this because I dont know of anyone else that will have a sleeved 55 block.
My engine builder recommended it so I am comfortable with the setup.
Not sure on pricing because I am waiting on the pistons. The bottom end will either be a shortblock preassembled, or can be purchased in pieces as needed. I am using stock crank.. Rods are being reviewed.. They tell me there is no point in making new ones because the stock ones are strong and they left nothing on the table for them to be modified so no point in recreating another set.
I will be fly-cutting pistons so I can get more aggressive with the cam selection..
Its going to be a few weeks before I can offer anything.. I want to install and run it on the dyno first and see what kind of power it makes.
All the LS1/LS2/LS7 GM motors that the tuners are building up with TT kits are running Iron sleeves also.. The great thing with the sleeves is that should you damage one, you simply replace that one sleeve and you are good to go. Of course on the MB block I believe Ted & I are both pioneering this because I dont know of anyone else that will have a sleeved 55 block.
My engine builder recommended it so I am comfortable with the setup.
Not sure on pricing because I am waiting on the pistons. The bottom end will either be a shortblock preassembled, or can be purchased in pieces as needed. I am using stock crank.. Rods are being reviewed.. They tell me there is no point in making new ones because the stock ones are strong and they left nothing on the table for them to be modified so no point in recreating another set.
I will be fly-cutting pistons so I can get more aggressive with the cam selection..
Its going to be a few weeks before I can offer anything.. I want to install and run it on the dyno first and see what kind of power it makes.
Victor,
How is it going? Do you think it is safe to sleeve these cars with as much HP as they are putting out? How much is this bottom end solution? I assume it will include pistons, rods, etc. And of course the question that is always the most important to me. WHEN CAN I GET IT IN MY HANDS?
How is it going? Do you think it is safe to sleeve these cars with as much HP as they are putting out? How much is this bottom end solution? I assume it will include pistons, rods, etc. And of course the question that is always the most important to me. WHEN CAN I GET IT IN MY HANDS?
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10-10-2007, 01:21 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
Here is a pic of a stock Ferrari 360 motor that I am currently having reinforced to accept twin turbos.. Notice the sleeves and the fact that there is no wall between the piston bores..
10-10-2007, 01:49 PM
#12
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But wouldnt it be better 6.3 TT rather then 5.7 TT ???
I am with you on this...if TT kit will be affordable I will go this route as well...
Then may be need to get something like Skyline 4wd system which will make our car actually drivable, cause rightnow I can launch or do rolling start at 1gear...either ESP cut off all the power or I go sideways
Did you ever thought about it ???...our MKB dealer here made CL55 and CLS55 620HP + into 4 matic cars...You wont believe it but CLS 55 off the line smokes all Skykine and Evos...
I am with you on this...if TT kit will be affordable I will go this route as well...
Then may be need to get something like Skyline 4wd system which will make our car actually drivable, cause rightnow I can launch or do rolling start at 1gear...either ESP cut off all the power or I go sideways
Did you ever thought about it ???...our MKB dealer here made CL55 and CLS55 620HP + into 4 matic cars...You wont believe it but CLS 55 off the line smokes all Skykine and Evos...
Last edited by E55 RUSS; 10-10-2007 at 01:51 PM.
10-10-2007, 04:51 PM
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AMG
10-10-2007, 05:31 PM
#15
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There are alot of factory built cars that use sleeves (ferrari, GM, etc).
All the LS1/LS2/LS7 GM motors that the tuners are building up with TT kits are running Iron sleeves also.. The great thing with the sleeves is that should you damage one, you simply replace that one sleeve and you are good to go. Of course on the MB block I believe Ted & I are both pioneering this because I dont know of anyone else that will have a sleeved 55 block.
My engine builder recommended it so I am comfortable with the setup.
They tell me there is no point in making new ones because the stock ones are strong and they left nothing on the table for them to be modified so no point in recreating another set.
I will be fly-cutting pistons so I can get more aggressive with the cam selection..
All the LS1/LS2/LS7 GM motors that the tuners are building up with TT kits are running Iron sleeves also.. The great thing with the sleeves is that should you damage one, you simply replace that one sleeve and you are good to go. Of course on the MB block I believe Ted & I are both pioneering this because I dont know of anyone else that will have a sleeved 55 block.
My engine builder recommended it so I am comfortable with the setup.
They tell me there is no point in making new ones because the stock ones are strong and they left nothing on the table for them to be modified so no point in recreating another set.
I will be fly-cutting pistons so I can get more aggressive with the cam selection..
.P.S. I did want to mention that the Mahle stck pistons and rods that do come in the AMG blck are very strong and don't need to be upgraded or replaced like you said ,unless damaged.
10-10-2007, 05:39 PM
#17
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Mike,
Displacement is calculated by taking the cylinder bore x piston stroke. While displacement is almost always king, there are limitations when taking an existing block and increasing it's displacement. 10% is roughly the most you'll see from most engines, and this is almost always primarily a result of boring (for a number of reasons). However, that has limitations - such as the cylinder walls, spacing between cylinders, nikasil coatings, compromising integrity, etc.
It gets really complicated really quickly, and each block is different. Do not automatically assume that you should always increase displacement by as much as is physically possible because doing that has it's drawbacks.
On a slight offset from this discussion, and some will disagree with me, I find it somewhat preemptive that people are already talking about building blocks and spending significant dollars doing so without knowing what the physical limits of the stock block are. I'm not talking about theoretical limits, I'm talking about actual limits. Maybe no one wants to sacrifice losing a block but it seems with all this investment going into pioneering the strengthening process it would be somewhat conducive to future development if there was a point at which we could say that one needs to start thinking about a built block. I would be extremely, extremely surprised if this block couldn't take 800hp if not more from the factory. I don't think many people are going to need to touch their blocks, especially if we have good rods and a good crank. Pistons are often lost as a result of poor tuning and poor combution, not massive horsepower - although yes, pistons have their limits of power as well.
My $.02
-m
Displacement is calculated by taking the cylinder bore x piston stroke. While displacement is almost always king, there are limitations when taking an existing block and increasing it's displacement. 10% is roughly the most you'll see from most engines, and this is almost always primarily a result of boring (for a number of reasons). However, that has limitations - such as the cylinder walls, spacing between cylinders, nikasil coatings, compromising integrity, etc.
It gets really complicated really quickly, and each block is different. Do not automatically assume that you should always increase displacement by as much as is physically possible because doing that has it's drawbacks.
On a slight offset from this discussion, and some will disagree with me, I find it somewhat preemptive that people are already talking about building blocks and spending significant dollars doing so without knowing what the physical limits of the stock block are. I'm not talking about theoretical limits, I'm talking about actual limits. Maybe no one wants to sacrifice losing a block but it seems with all this investment going into pioneering the strengthening process it would be somewhat conducive to future development if there was a point at which we could say that one needs to start thinking about a built block. I would be extremely, extremely surprised if this block couldn't take 800hp if not more from the factory. I don't think many people are going to need to touch their blocks, especially if we have good rods and a good crank. Pistons are often lost as a result of poor tuning and poor combution, not massive horsepower - although yes, pistons have their limits of power as well.
My $.02
-m
Last edited by Marcus Frost; 10-10-2007 at 05:48 PM.
10-10-2007, 05:41 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Mike,
Displacement is calculated by taking the cylinder bore x piston stroke. While displacement is almost always king, there are limitations when taking an existing block and increasing it's displacement. 10% is roughly the most you'll see from most engines, and this is almost always primarily a result of boring (for a number of reasons). However, that has limitations - such as the cylinder walls, spacing between cylinders, nikasil coatings, compromising integrity, etc.
It gets really complicated really quickly, and each block is different. Do not automatically assume that you should always increase displacement by as much as is physically possible because doing that has it's drawbacks.
Hope this helps.
-m
Displacement is calculated by taking the cylinder bore x piston stroke. While displacement is almost always king, there are limitations when taking an existing block and increasing it's displacement. 10% is roughly the most you'll see from most engines, and this is almost always primarily a result of boring (for a number of reasons). However, that has limitations - such as the cylinder walls, spacing between cylinders, nikasil coatings, compromising integrity, etc.
It gets really complicated really quickly, and each block is different. Do not automatically assume that you should always increase displacement by as much as is physically possible because doing that has it's drawbacks.
Hope this helps.
-m
Thank you Marcus...Vaeth has 5.8 stroker for E55...
I would be intresting in poricing as well and most important the POWER gains...
10-10-2007, 05:58 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
I would be extremely, extremely surprised if this block couldn't take 800hp if not more from the factory. I don't think many people are going to need to touch their blocks, especially if we have good rods and a good crank. Pistons are often lost as a result of poor tuning and poor combution, not massive horsepower - although yes, pistons have their limits of power as well.
My $.02
-m
My $.02
-m
As I have highlighted Marcus comments. Your .02 is worth a million dollars and exactly what I preach!
Marcus you have hit the nail right on the head!
Last edited by ProjectC55; 10-10-2007 at 06:02 PM.
10-10-2007, 06:06 PM
#21
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Ahmad you may just be fine with how your blck is right now. AMG did a good job in building these blcks and the parts that they use are not cheap slugs. If you get proper custom dyno tuning(and I'm not talking some mail-in-flash) and don't exceed the limits of the pistons and rods(which is pretty high based on their quality build),like Marcus indicates and I try to say,you'll be good to go.
10-10-2007, 06:07 PM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
This is tru. However if the sleeving process can be done reliably on the 5.5L block then that's a different story and a good look. Hopefully all goes well with your project Vic.
P.S. I did want to mention that the Mahle stck pistons and rods that do come in the AMG blck are very strong and don't need to be upgraded or replaced like you said ,unless damaged.
.P.S. I did want to mention that the Mahle stck pistons and rods that do come in the AMG blck are very strong and don't need to be upgraded or replaced like you said ,unless damaged.
I would also be willing to build a twin turbo with a 100% stock long block. The stock assembly will make over 750 rwhp before it becomes a problem.
Give me a good crank and the longest rod possible anyday of the week.
Last edited by rflow306; 10-10-2007 at 06:12 PM.
10-10-2007, 06:14 PM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
The fact that you can run 130mph in high 10 seconds in 90+ degree weather and 90+ humidty using NOS and low 11's at over 120mph just motor is a testament to how well tuned your car is and how great a job MB AMG has done with the STOCk internals of the 5.5L motor.
Like we have all said on Mon as well,nothing beats ,custom dyno tuning and it seems like the AMG's agree and love this as well.
A car can only be made more reliable if it's making major HP with custom dyno tuning regardless of the cost IMOP.
10-10-2007, 06:18 PM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
Mikhail,
With the way you run your car (like a Madman) - the question is going to be how much do you have to spend?
For the typical street driver, 800hp is easily achieve on stock internals, but for the guy who's topping out his car on a weekly basis... that's why MB/AMG over-engineered the blocks to begin with
-m
With the way you run your car (like a Madman) - the question is going to be how much do you have to spend?
For the typical street driver, 800hp is easily achieve on stock internals, but for the guy who's topping out his car on a weekly basis... that's why MB/AMG over-engineered the blocks to begin with
-m
