Or how about wraping it in heat soak tape
View Poll Results: What do you think of doing some cooling mods on the 63
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll
63 Cooling mods
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 2
From: Southern California
S600TT, R350
Lets see if we can brake this down into three major components that control/operate M156 engine:
1. Oil temperatures - being at 100F-110F is not high at all, as a matter of fact DME considers anything under 100F is a warm-up. On the road track you will be in 200F plus. Bigger cooler will definitely help, however we are concerned with 1/4 mile drags, so I do not see any benefit there.
2. Coolant temperatures - during the run they were in 189-200F range, although a bit high, but again nothing that has a dramatic negative effect on performance.
3. Air Temperatures - not Air Charge Temperatures, there is no forced induction. So what happens is intake air boxes get heat soaked and do not cool down until late in the run.
I data-logged Greg's E63 at the drags, at the starting line he was at 162F, by the end of the run he cooled down to 111F - which was still 30F above ambient.
One of solutions would be to relocate Air Temperature Sensor which is right now mounted inside intake manifold by the firewall. The other to insulate air boxes or even better a new air box design that is better insulated and can shed heat quicker.
Using water injection is not a good solution. It works on some forced induction applications as octane booster, but on normally aspirate engine it will take up air volume, thus reducing airflow into the engine.
Meanwhile, VRP (Vrus) makes a set of intake manifold heat spacers that isolate intake manifold from the cylinder heads and thus keep it from becoming a heat soak.
1. Oil temperatures - being at 100F-110F is not high at all, as a matter of fact DME considers anything under 100F is a warm-up. On the road track you will be in 200F plus. Bigger cooler will definitely help, however we are concerned with 1/4 mile drags, so I do not see any benefit there.
2. Coolant temperatures - during the run they were in 189-200F range, although a bit high, but again nothing that has a dramatic negative effect on performance.
3. Air Temperatures - not Air Charge Temperatures, there is no forced induction. So what happens is intake air boxes get heat soaked and do not cool down until late in the run.
I data-logged Greg's E63 at the drags, at the starting line he was at 162F, by the end of the run he cooled down to 111F - which was still 30F above ambient.
One of solutions would be to relocate Air Temperature Sensor which is right now mounted inside intake manifold by the firewall. The other to insulate air boxes or even better a new air box design that is better insulated and can shed heat quicker.
Using water injection is not a good solution. It works on some forced induction applications as octane booster, but on normally aspirate engine it will take up air volume, thus reducing airflow into the engine.
Meanwhile, VRP (Vrus) makes a set of intake manifold heat spacers that isolate intake manifold from the cylinder heads and thus keep it from becoming a heat soak.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 303
Likes: 5
From: Phoenix, AZ
15 S550 Daily 96 Dodge Viper GTS
Lets see if we can brake this down into three major components that control/operate M156 engine:
1. Oil temperatures - being at 100F-110F is not high at all, as a matter of fact DME considers anything under 100F is a warm-up. On the road track you will be in 200F plus. Bigger cooler will definitely help, however we are concerned with 1/4 mile drags, so I do not see any benefit there.
2. Coolant temperatures - during the run they were in 189-200F range, although a bit high, but again nothing that has a dramatic negative effect on performance.
3. Air Temperatures - not Air Charge Temperatures, there is no forced induction. So what happens is intake air boxes get heat soaked and do not cool down until late in the run.
I data-logged Greg's E63 at the drags, at the starting line he was at 162F, by the end of the run he cooled down to 111F - which was still 30F above ambient.
One of solutions would be to relocate Air Temperature Sensor which is right now mounted inside intake manifold by the firewall. The other to insulate air boxes or even better a new air box design that is better insulated and can shed heat quicker.
Using water injection is not a good solution. It works on some forced induction applications as octane booster, but on normally aspirate engine it will take up air volume, thus reducing airflow into the engine.
Meanwhile, VRP (Vrus) makes a set of intake manifold heat spacers that isolate intake manifold from the cylinder heads and thus keep it from becoming a heat soak.
1. Oil temperatures - being at 100F-110F is not high at all, as a matter of fact DME considers anything under 100F is a warm-up. On the road track you will be in 200F plus. Bigger cooler will definitely help, however we are concerned with 1/4 mile drags, so I do not see any benefit there.
2. Coolant temperatures - during the run they were in 189-200F range, although a bit high, but again nothing that has a dramatic negative effect on performance.
3. Air Temperatures - not Air Charge Temperatures, there is no forced induction. So what happens is intake air boxes get heat soaked and do not cool down until late in the run.
I data-logged Greg's E63 at the drags, at the starting line he was at 162F, by the end of the run he cooled down to 111F - which was still 30F above ambient.
One of solutions would be to relocate Air Temperature Sensor which is right now mounted inside intake manifold by the firewall. The other to insulate air boxes or even better a new air box design that is better insulated and can shed heat quicker.
Using water injection is not a good solution. It works on some forced induction applications as octane booster, but on normally aspirate engine it will take up air volume, thus reducing airflow into the engine.
Meanwhile, VRP (Vrus) makes a set of intake manifold heat spacers that isolate intake manifold from the cylinder heads and thus keep it from becoming a heat soak.
Is GMG still working on mods for the 63?? I remember reading that you were in the middle of working with a white 63 what happend?? And you stated that VRP is also working on more mods. Haven't seen a thing, were are you guys at??
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
Trez,
What is your REAL goal - to make the car run cooler - or to make more power?
I think your money is best spent making the car faster - freeing up airflow both in to and out of the engine. Intake, Heads, Cams, Headers, and exhaust. That's what you guys need to focus on. You will not see significant performance gains with the money you invest in cooling an N/A engine. Your butt dyno is really not a good way to measure performance. Any car will feel a little sluggish after it warms up a bit, but the problem with your thought process is that you think you can significant lower IATs or prevent IATs from getting higher.
-m
What is your REAL goal - to make the car run cooler - or to make more power?
I think your money is best spent making the car faster - freeing up airflow both in to and out of the engine. Intake, Heads, Cams, Headers, and exhaust. That's what you guys need to focus on. You will not see significant performance gains with the money you invest in cooling an N/A engine. Your butt dyno is really not a good way to measure performance. Any car will feel a little sluggish after it warms up a bit, but the problem with your thought process is that you think you can significant lower IATs or prevent IATs from getting higher.
-m
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 4
From: California, USA
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Lets see if we can brake this down into three major components that control/operate M156 engine:
1. Oil temperatures - being at 100F-110F is not high at all, as a matter of fact DME considers anything under 100F is a warm-up. On the road track you will be in 200F plus. Bigger cooler will definitely help, however we are concerned with 1/4 mile drags, so I do not see any benefit there.
2. Coolant temperatures - during the run they were in 189-200F range, although a bit high, but again nothing that has a dramatic negative effect on performance.
3. Air Temperatures - not Air Charge Temperatures, there is no forced induction. So what happens is intake air boxes get heat soaked and do not cool down until late in the run.
I data-logged Greg's E63 at the drags, at the starting line he was at 162F, by the end of the run he cooled down to 111F - which was still 30F above ambient.
One of solutions would be to relocate Air Temperature Sensor which is right now mounted inside intake manifold by the firewall. The other to insulate air boxes or even better a new air box design that is better insulated and can shed heat quicker.
Using water injection is not a good solution. It works on some forced induction applications as octane booster, but on normally aspirate engine it will take up air volume, thus reducing airflow into the engine.
Meanwhile, VRP (Vrus) makes a set of intake manifold heat spacers that isolate intake manifold from the cylinder heads and thus keep it from becoming a heat soak.
1. Oil temperatures - being at 100F-110F is not high at all, as a matter of fact DME considers anything under 100F is a warm-up. On the road track you will be in 200F plus. Bigger cooler will definitely help, however we are concerned with 1/4 mile drags, so I do not see any benefit there.
2. Coolant temperatures - during the run they were in 189-200F range, although a bit high, but again nothing that has a dramatic negative effect on performance.
3. Air Temperatures - not Air Charge Temperatures, there is no forced induction. So what happens is intake air boxes get heat soaked and do not cool down until late in the run.
I data-logged Greg's E63 at the drags, at the starting line he was at 162F, by the end of the run he cooled down to 111F - which was still 30F above ambient.
One of solutions would be to relocate Air Temperature Sensor which is right now mounted inside intake manifold by the firewall. The other to insulate air boxes or even better a new air box design that is better insulated and can shed heat quicker.
Using water injection is not a good solution. It works on some forced induction applications as octane booster, but on normally aspirate engine it will take up air volume, thus reducing airflow into the engine.
Meanwhile, VRP (Vrus) makes a set of intake manifold heat spacers that isolate intake manifold from the cylinder heads and thus keep it from becoming a heat soak.
Vadim,
1) Oil temperatures were around 107 C (Celsius not Fahrenheit) and (I think) this was way too hot for the car. I can physically feel the difference in pull and power when I run the car with oil temperature 65 degrees Celsius vs 107 degrees Celsius
On every single run I made last Friday......
- When oil temperatures were above 95 C, I was in 13.1 to 13.4 seconds range.
- When oil temperatures were under 65 C, I was in 12.7 to 12.9 seconds range.
I don't know if the sensor was being tricked with all the ice around the intake, but I know that when the car cooled down, it performed dramatically better
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
From: New York
old daily driver '07 E63(gone); new dd '14 750xi; 2013 Viper GTS
What worked for my old Z06 was a lower thermostat with a fan controller that turned on the cooling fan earlier @185-190 degrees. Coolant never went above 195
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,434
Likes: 1
From: So Cal
2010 RRS ; BMW K1200R; 14 E350 ; 14 RRS on order
Vadim,
1) Oil temperatures were around 107 C (Celsius not Fahrenheit) and (I think) this was way too hot for the car. I can physically feel the difference in pull and power when I run the car with oil temperature 65 degrees Celsius vs 107 degrees Celsius
On every single run I made last Friday......
- When oil temperatures were above 95 C, I was in 13.1 to 13.4 seconds range.
- When oil temperatures were under 65 C, I was in 12.7 to 12.9 seconds range.
I don't know if the sensor was being tricked with all the ice around the intake, but I know that when the car cooled down, it performed dramatically better
1) Oil temperatures were around 107 C (Celsius not Fahrenheit) and (I think) this was way too hot for the car. I can physically feel the difference in pull and power when I run the car with oil temperature 65 degrees Celsius vs 107 degrees Celsius
On every single run I made last Friday......
- When oil temperatures were above 95 C, I was in 13.1 to 13.4 seconds range.
- When oil temperatures were under 65 C, I was in 12.7 to 12.9 seconds range.
I don't know if the sensor was being tricked with all the ice around the intake, but I know that when the car cooled down, it performed dramatically better
Celsius not Fahrenheit
107 Fahrenheit would be very cold for the engine oil. 107 C on the other hand
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