chiromikey

obsidian05e55

Nice!!

Jspeed

What temperatures are u hitting after u added ice? Also, is it better to run water + water wetter or racing coolant or ice water? Thanks Mike

chiromikey

haven't data logged with ice yet but i'll post the results as soon as i do. the best heat dissipation will come from straight water with a surfactant like water wetter and zero coolant/antifreeze.

Jspeed

Have you heard of or tried Chill Charger? Wonder if it will be better than Water Wetter. Am currently running water + water wetter in my Evosport cooler but IATs are still 118F in the day when cruising - which is 27F above ambient. Am still hoping to lower it further but weather here is pretty warm.

http://www.designengineering.com/newsdetail.asp?id=42

chiromikey

i'm sure it's just a surfactant like water wetter and works the exact same way. there are many on the market only separated by brand and cost...just use the one that's cheapest as long as it has the lubricant/inhibitor/stabilizor additives (which most do).

Jspeed

Roger that, cheers Mike.

psk145

I thought I remember reading a while ago that water wetter wont really help these heat exchangers. Something about water wetter only works when the water is boiling. I forget the specifics, but I know its there. Something about surface tension

chiromikey

that's exactly what surfactants like water wetter do is reduce surface tension so that heat is transferred more readily. i can't think of any reason not to use it in any type of automotive coolig application where excessive heat is an issue but i'm open to read a differing point of view if you've got a link.

RoydRage

I have used water wetter for over 10 years... It was really big in the motorcycle world... we used to use it on the road racing track.

I had used it for over 70,000mi on a delivery vehicle I owned, and I did have some problem with it guming up, a brown like sludge material.. It could have been because of the antifreeze though... I've never seen that in a low mileage or racing application.

It works by simply increasing the thermal conductivity of the water, as well as raising water's boiling point.

Running all, or mostly all water will always make the engine run cooler... For years I've seen people run all Antifreeze, and think they were doing a good think, when it reality... It's the worst thing that you can do.

Antifreeze DOES NOTHING TO COOL AN ENGINE.

It's sole purpose is to stop the water from boiling and freezing! It does provide lubrication for seals, and usually has some anti-corrosives, But that's it! It's a very bad thermal conductor.

I would recommend a 70% water 30% Antifreeze mix for the street, of course on the track you should be water only in case of a leak/spill, most tracks mandate this.

Also... Everyone, Never put tap water in your motor... Distilled Water Only PLEASE!

Best,

RoydRage

psk145

this is what I found from water wetter's technical info. I remember there was a discussion a long time ago in bimmerforums forced induction area about it. I used to have a supercharged M3 engine with an air to water intercooler. The consensus there was that water wetter works while water is boiling, but really doesnt help much in an intercooler. Anyway, take it for what its worth, just my interpretation of it.

But either way, Im sure its beneficial from other aspects, plus its not that expensive so it cant hurt.


HEAT TRANSFER
Red Line WaterWetter® can reduce cooling system
temperatures compared to glycol solutions and even
plain water. Water has excellent heat transfer properties
in its liquid state, but very high surface tension
makes it difficult to release water vapor from the
metal surface. Under heavy load conditions, much of
the heat in the cylinder head is transferred by localized
boiling at hot spots, even though the bulk of the
cooling solution is below the boiling point. Red Line's
unique WaterWetter® reduces the surface tension of
water by a factor of two, which means that much
smaller vapor bubbles will be formed. Vapor bubbles
on the metal surface create an insulating layer which
impedes heat transfer. Releasing these vapor bubbles
from the metal surface can improve the heat
transfer properties in this localized boiling region by
as much as 15% as shown in Figure 2. This figure
demonstrates the removal of heat from an aluminum
bar at 304°F by quenching the bar in different
coolants at 214°F under 15 psi pressure. Compare
the time required to reduce the temperature of the
aluminum to 250°F, or the boiling point of water at 15
psi. Red Line with WaterWetter® required 3.2 seconds,
water alone 3.7 sec, 50/50 glycol in water
required 10.2 sec, and 100% glycol required 21 sec.
Water alone required 15% longer, 50/50 glycol 220%
longer, and 100% glycol required 550% longer.

psk145

found a thread on bf.com

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...93&postcount=5

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...8&postcount=17

once again, just a person's interpretation, but that was the consensus again from previous discussions years ago

vrus

Price is at $1299.

Those of you that want them, email me (vrus1@hotmail.com) with your Paypal Address and I'll get them built for you..

If we get more people in, I will reduce the price and send you back a Paypal credit.

Here are some installed pics with and without bumper ..

vrus

Thanks bud!! I appreciate it..

It's always been the same goal with me... Great products and a reasonable price...

Wait till you see the cool 63 stuff ..

psk145

no no no no.....you need to focus on the 55's. I know you're probably only saying this because of the lack of sleep and exhaustion from your baby. Clearly you arent thinking straight!!!! Forget those 63 guys

vrus

LOL.. You mean you dont want to eventually go to a 63 platform if there was a F/I solution for it?

JAYCL600

nice looking kit victor

Jrocket

Victor,can I get a price on the HE only.No other parts needed.

chiromikey

i wasn't sure what point you were trying to make originally but i have to admit that i agree with that explanation however, water wetter is still a better alternative for people that don't have to worry about sub freezing temps because it doesn't degrade cooling properties like antifreeze/coolant while still providing lubrication and corrosion inhibition. i've never experienced foaming when used in the proper concentration like one of the links suggest. it can also be argued that surfactants reduce drag and therefor allow the circulation pump to work more efficiently which in itself could aid in the cooling ability of the system.

Jrocket

dude....that was deep!

psk145

Leaving the lubrication out of it and talking only about heat dissipation, I thought you said it would dissipate heat better than water alone... where I was thinking it wouldnt boost the effect of water any since it wasnt boiling and under pressure.

I dunno, maybe we're both saying the same thing different ways. Or maybe I interpreted it wrong

stevebez

Hey Vic where are the power steering coolers?

Also its not 100% clear to me does this replace the OEM heat exchanger or sit in front of the OEM unit?

Will you sell the H/E only? I would need one end of the H/E fitted with a 1.5" outlet if possible - to accomodate my CM90, if not, I supopse I could have it modded here, but I dont think its a major fabrication change and will be much easier to do at that stage...

This is all assuming this H/E is fitted in addition to the OEM cooler.

chiromikey

as i said, i've changed my point of view and am agreeing with your point about it not working in an i/c system like it does in an engine cooling system. however, antifreeze definitely degrades water's ability to transfer heat so adding it hurts cooling...but something is needed to prevent corrossion. because of it's anti corrosion additives i'd rather use water wetter because it doesn't inhibit cooling like antifreeze (even if it doesn't increase thermal transfer in an i/c system).

jangy

Good point. The question really comes down to having a matrix that can absorb and expel heat at certain rates. The concept of exchange implies that you want a matrix that absorbs and expels (transfers) heat quickly.

I've been looking into another path. We have an instrument at work that is called a glycol bath. It is basically a closed system that has a glycol solution in it. The unit runs on electricity and maintains the temperature of the bath. We often run ours into the major negatives since glycol has a much lower freezing point than water. What if we could rig up a system like that and wrap some of the components in the tubing? This wouldn't be instead of the work you all are talking about, but more in addition to. I was just curious if anyone had seen such a system on a car before. I don't mean a spray bar, either (although one spraying organics would cool well).

vrus

I'll get a price for you...

Not sure where they are but rest assured this kit does not interfer or affect the power steering coolers.

This H/E replaces the stock one. It is 51% larger than the stock unit and allows you to keep the factory oil cooler in place.