short HEADERS: what results for Kleemann and Renntech ?
12-15-2007, 10:46 AM
#52
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look, we have exactly the same, except that ... our DMV will notify you
but, ... this is still Matrix ..or Referees aren't human being? ..if so, there will certainly be those for which is enough give the vehicle certificate and .. have everything done without going there ...
can we go back to the issue LARGER HEADER'S OUTLET PORT IS EFFECTIVE OR NOT?
but, ... this is still Matrix ..or Referees aren't human being? ..if so, there will certainly be those for which is enough give the vehicle certificate and .. have everything done without going there ...
can we go back to the issue LARGER HEADER'S OUTLET PORT IS EFFECTIVE OR NOT?
Back on topic. What difference does it make? I'll bet you my right nut that openning that restriction is exactly where people get the extra 10hp from the long headers. I don't think it is simple tuning. Theargument you make is against all marketing strategies here in America. To pay the extra money for a shorty RennTech header PLUS a race cat vs just buying the long headers is absurd. You either get shorties because you want to keep the primary cats or you go long, if you don't mind the CELs from time to time.
Also, I dunno how long you have been here, but the dyno differences between the Kleeman (long) and other tuner's shortys was done years ago. You may not have the data and nobody here gets your point enough to dig it up.
Simply put, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Ok, if it does restrict, so what? If it makes no difference, so what?
12-15-2007, 09:39 PM
#54
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You are off on the laws. I'm not even going to argue with you, but you are simply wrong.
it's not me wrong .. it's the System!
all "custom" tuning is wrong, per definition .. we need not to be hypocrits, at least while in a discussion forum.
Back on topic. What difference does it make? I'll bet you my right nut that openning that restriction is exactly where people get the extra 10hp from the long headers. I don't think it is simple tuning. Theargument you make is against all marketing strategies here in America. To pay the extra money for a shorty RennTech header PLUS a race cat vs just buying the long headers is absurd. You either get shorties because you want to keep the primary cats or you go long, if you don't mind the CELs from time to time.
Also, I dunno how long you have been here, but the dyno differences between the Kleeman (long) and other tuner's shortys was done years ago. You may not have the data and nobody here gets your point enough to dig it up.
Simply put, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Ok, if it does restrict, so what? If it makes no difference, so what?
it's not me wrong .. it's the System!
all "custom" tuning is wrong, per definition .. we need not to be hypocrits, at least while in a discussion forum.
Back on topic. What difference does it make? I'll bet you my right nut that openning that restriction is exactly where people get the extra 10hp from the long headers. I don't think it is simple tuning. Theargument you make is against all marketing strategies here in America. To pay the extra money for a shorty RennTech header PLUS a race cat vs just buying the long headers is absurd. You either get shorties because you want to keep the primary cats or you go long, if you don't mind the CELs from time to time.
Also, I dunno how long you have been here, but the dyno differences between the Kleeman (long) and other tuner's shortys was done years ago. You may not have the data and nobody here gets your point enough to dig it up.
Simply put, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Ok, if it does restrict, so what? If it makes no difference, so what?
our PORT:
available room is not a good reason to go large if that is not proved to be effective. I think.
I had a look at the refferred old thread, but no results there, too.
you say now: " I'll bet you my right nut that openning that restriction is exactly where people get the extra 10hp from the long headers. "
.. but on the earlier page and and in other posts you (and others) argue that the 10 hp is from race CAT, not from a larger port.
Should it be from the larger port .. why spend money for race cats!
Jangy, thanks for discussing
but .. data are missed.
ciao
12-16-2007, 01:46 AM
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Check this thread out some good info with regard to what you are after
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/206642-cats-how-restrictive-they.html
there is an other good one to but can not find it right now, will post it if i do though
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/206642-cats-how-restrictive-they.html
there is an other good one to but can not find it right now, will post it if i do though
12-16-2007, 05:47 PM
#56
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Lets just leave it there. This guy thinks that the laws are universal even though CARB is more stringent than even Nevada or Arizona's standards.
Data is unquestionably lacking. Who the heck would take a RennTech shorty and put a huge cat on it?
Anyhoo. I'm out..
Data is unquestionably lacking. Who the heck would take a RennTech shorty and put a huge cat on it?
Anyhoo. I'm out..
12-17-2007, 05:10 AM
#57
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. We each have our opinions and may see things differently. Just because it does not make sense to you, it might make some to others. Its good to experiment & try different mixes, but some times they do not always yield the desired results.Speculation is that until data proves other wise
peace out
12-17-2007, 05:59 PM
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hi, this is only common belief not backed by any data, nor subjective feeling, to date!
what we can say, till now, based on feedback received is that:
* till hard upgrades (mods in engine's Head and moving parts) are not concerned, NO PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT IS ACHIEVED BY ENLARGENING THE HEADER'S OUTLET PORT TO DOWNPIPE.
.. should anybody supply data for a Renntech+ race cats to compare with a Kleemann's; or for a Kleemann+ stock cats to compare with a Renntech alone,
above resuld could be updated.
thanks
what we can say, till now, based on feedback received is that:
* till hard upgrades (mods in engine's Head and moving parts) are not concerned, NO PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT IS ACHIEVED BY ENLARGENING THE HEADER'S OUTLET PORT TO DOWNPIPE.
.. should anybody supply data for a Renntech+ race cats to compare with a Kleemann's; or for a Kleemann+ stock cats to compare with a Renntech alone,
above resuld could be updated.
thanks
Some call it "common belief" some call it physics.
“..do the laws of physics cease to exist in your kitchen? Are you telling me water soaks into a grit faster on your stove than on anyone else’s?” (Joe P. from My Cousin Vinni)
In order for you to get a somewhat accurate answer, you would need to use the same car for the baseline dyno rip (stock), w / Kleemann, and w / RennTech. The test would need to be done in identical environments / conditions while minimizing as many variables as possible and after all of this your results would still be subject to scrutiny and errors. Anything else is purely subjective.
12-17-2007, 06:55 PM
#59
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Some call it "common belief" some call it physics.
“..do the laws of physics cease to exist in your kitchen? Are you telling me water soaks into a grit faster on your stove than on anyone else’s?” (Joe P. from My Cousin Vinni)
In order for you to get a somewhat accurate answer, you would need to use the same car for the baseline dyno rip (stock), w / Kleemann, and w / RennTech. The test would need to be done in identical environments / conditions while minimizing as many variables as possible and after all of this your results would still be subject to scrutiny and errors. Anything else is purely subjective.
“..do the laws of physics cease to exist in your kitchen? Are you telling me water soaks into a grit faster on your stove than on anyone else’s?” (Joe P. from My Cousin Vinni)
In order for you to get a somewhat accurate answer, you would need to use the same car for the baseline dyno rip (stock), w / Kleemann, and w / RennTech. The test would need to be done in identical environments / conditions while minimizing as many variables as possible and after all of this your results would still be subject to scrutiny and errors. Anything else is purely subjective.
without any pro-data .. no Theory, sorry.
12-17-2007, 06:59 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Check this thread out some good info with regard to what you are after
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206642
there is an other good one to but can not find it right now, will post it if i do though
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206642
there is an other good one to but can not find it right now, will post it if i do though
12-18-2007, 01:29 PM
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Yes it is a theory by my usage. On a modern internal combustion engine, a reduction / restriction in exhaust size / flow will result in back pressure affecting engine power. This has been scientifically tested again and again by all the manufactures with every possible size combination. If the aftermarket piece(s) flows better than the OE, it has the potential to make power, if it doesn’t it won’t. Mystery solved?
12-19-2007, 04:56 AM
#62
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Thread Starter
??
Yes it is a theory by my usage. On a modern internal combustion engine, a reduction / restriction in exhaust size / flow will result in back pressure affecting engine power. This has been scientifically tested again and again by all the manufactures with every possible size combination. If the aftermarket piece(s) flows better than the OE, it has the potential to make power, if it doesn’t it won’t. Mystery solved?
Yes it is a theory by my usage. On a modern internal combustion engine, a reduction / restriction in exhaust size / flow will result in back pressure affecting engine power. This has been scientifically tested again and again by all the manufactures with every possible size combination. If the aftermarket piece(s) flows better than the OE, it has the potential to make power, if it doesn’t it won’t. Mystery solved?
OK,
to end up quickly this 3d post, let's the question be this :...going to fabricate my custom headers ... what size better make the outlet port to be mostly effective?
(based on no carb restriction)
