Yes, the 63s cannot be flashed via OBDII port.

Adam

 

I haven't gotten into tuning for a few years, but the last thing I remember is that you would blow your engine if you didn't control the revs.

I also know that PC claims to raise the speed to over 200mph. I assume they do it by raising the RPMs AND deleting the speed limiter.


As many times as I've hit it, I should know but does anyone know the revs at 155mph?

 

Yet.

 

 

I just wanted to chime in and say that this has been a very interesting thread to read and I'm glad to clarify any inconsistencies that may be present.

Regarding vehicles that claim to not have achieved the advertised gains, were these conclusions made by comparing post-tune dyno graphs to *expected* stock numbers or by having a base dyno before being tuned, then dynoing after the tune? If you take 5 different E55's and dyno them on the same day you will see that stock power varies greatly. Such is due to numerous factors such as the physical build quality of the engine, how the car was broken in, etc.

Pertaining to removal of the top-speed limiter, such is done totally independent to the revs. There's a numeric value that simply states the top-speed, which can be drastically extended, but not physically removed. In essence, your speed limiter is set to an unreachable MPH (ie.. 300mph) so no electronic limiting takes place - you're only limited by your car's physical capability, which is basically drag and limited power.

I think the above is something that should be accounted for and looked into.

-Aaron

 

How much are these variances?

 

I have a powerchip in both the ML63 and the E55. I have hit 171 in the ML already, so the limiter is gone. My car dynoed an additional 24 awhp and 32 awtq, so the gains ARE there for the 63s. I recently bought the E55, and had taken it in for service, of course they flashed me, and the car felt a lot slower. I took it back to powerchip, and the beast is back. It made an incredible difference in the E55, more so than on the 63 .
Powerchip has world class service, and remember, unlike Kleemann, and Evotech, Powerchip ONLY does ECU tunes. I would imagine they know a little more than the other guys based simply on the fact that this is all they do, the ECU programming is their specialty, whereas Kleemann, and Evotech concentrate more on the bolt ons that they sell, and do an ECU program to compliment their bolt on parts.
I would bet money that my brothers Powerchipped CLS63 would beat an Evotech ECU tuned CLS63 in the 1/4 mile.

 

I think RennTech, Kleemann, and EvoTech would be a lot more effective than Powerchip, as these companies specialize in Mercedes while Powerchip tunes for a million other cars. They will take one car, develop a tune for it, then move on (fairly quickly) to another car. But RennTech, Kleemann, etc.... spend years and years just on Mercedes. They get to know the ins and outs of the car.

Like I said, I've seen powerchip-tuned cars gain nothing (maybe 1 or 2 hp) on the dyno. And yes, those cars had pre and post dynos. Also, they seem to lack knowledge once you try to go beyond their standard tune. For example, a member on the C32 had some custom mods and wanted a custom tune to take advantage of those mods, but they just couldn't answer many of his questions or further help him.

 

It will all be better now.....................

 

From my research, PowerChip has been around for quite some time (15+ Years if I remember correctly) and I felt good going with a company like that as opposed to others that started up recently. I also feel that once the chip tuners have the specs for the car, the tune is going to be pretty easy. I would bet that the tune from Renntech, Kleeman, Evotech, or PowerChip is probably VERY similar to each other. They all basically remove that margin of safety that MB puts in a stock vehicle. I do not believe Renntech can do any more that any other quality tuner can do with the same vehicle. But they can charge more because of the name.

My two cents.

 

A few good points. I wasn't a powerchip fan myself. I always asociated them with EVO and just assumed they were doing some tuning for them.

The issue I have with ALL ECU tunes is that they are simply generic. Saying that Powerchip just gets them out and moves on isn't really fair. The others are no different. they all get a tune out as soon as possible and do not bother to make any changes to it unless they absolutely have to. Want an example? When MB added the dreaded injector flash. It was one of the first times that we had true data showing that the ecu maps were different on various years, since it acted differently on different model year cars. Through all of this, I have been involved with Kleeman, RennTech, EvoTech, and now Powerchip tunes. Kleeman is simply too far away. RennTech still has not been able to finish an ECU tune to satisfaction after almost a year.
That leaves Evotech and Powerchip. I like Evotech because of Oliver, but I want the car tuned on a dyno and he isn't here.
In the meantime, many of my friends in SoCal have been going to Powerchip for tunes and I had a chance to speak with them openly about all the concerns that we have (including the 63 clan). What I liked was the fact that they were willing to openly discuss and even offer to disprove some of the wives tales that may exist. I have no history with Powerchip, so maybe this is a new thing, but their customer service is great and they are very connected to the MB product line.

 

Actually, I wasn't even including my car

 

I know that most of these companies' tunes are similar, but I'm also sure there are some differences in some of the parameters. Again, I have yet another example of a pullied SLK32 that got a powerchip tune that resulted in +2 whp gain on the dyno. The same car (with the same mods) then got a RennTech tune and resulted in 13 whp on the dyno. And yes, the dyno was done using same machine, same operator, different day but very close weather conditions.

But the difference is that the other companies keep researching new ways for new mods to extract more power. And most of the time that process involves even more tuning of the ECU. I know kleemann had 2 versions (or "upgrades") of their K1 program and 2 or 3 versions of their K2 program.
I understand that Powerchip removes the safety margin from that MB uses, but once the tune is developed, then they have to move on to different brand. They can not afford to spend years and years just on Mercedes or any one company. Kleemann and RennTech, on the other hand, stay with one brand (Mercedes), so there is an "inheret" inevitability to continue improving the ECU tune.

In either case, go with the tune that makes you happy. I'm sure some people will like a tune even though it shows no gains on the dyno (but they still feel an improvement), and others will hate a tune even though it shows 25 whp increase on the dyno. I think if you purchase Powerchip through one of the tuners on this forum, you'll have 14 days to try it out and if you don't like it, they'll give you your money back (full refund). This is a lot better than ordering through their website. And I think 14 days should be more than enough time to decide whether the tune worked or not and whether it was worth it....

 

You are lucky that you are local...and I am glad the local guys give you the same great service that Aaron with StealthAuto gave me. One reason I am more than happy to sing his praises and help him out whenever I can. I do this for any company that treats me right.

 

Agreed fully. Customer service defines a shop to me. Aaron is cool. My grill isn't, but I'll let it slide for now.

MBForever:
I fully understand what you are saying, I just simply respectfully disagree. The various versions you refer to did not come about in the name of continuous improvement. They did it based on complaints and flashes.

Again, I have no history with Powerchip, I just know what is going on now. They are aware of the MB market and willing to work with me on the '06 built in '06 issue. We have also discussed potential solutions for the 63 cars. Trust me, we will do plenty of dyno runs but thats not the real deal.

How about we get a VRP/Powerchip tuned car and a RennTech tuned car to the track, where the truth shows? You ever dyno RennTech's airbox?

 

One other thing to keep in mind is that now that Vadim is sitting in the same physical location as Powerchip, you will see that the tunes will become more and more honed for each modification level.

We will have custom tunes created for each VRP power package so there will be no generic tunes for our stuff. We are making good use of the dyno to hone these tunes.

 

I too will have to respectfully disagree. Just like there has been complaints and flashes to Kleemann, I'm sure there were complaints and flash to Powerchip as well...... only powerchip never changed their tunes while Kleemann did. They kept refining it. But even if there were no complaints, I still think that over the life cycle of researching and developing different "stages" of mods for our cars, Kleemann and RennTech would have spent a lot more time dealing with (or studying) an ECU tune than a powerchip general programmer who programs for 30 different brands.

The problem with the track idea is that things vary more on the track than on the dyno. You have varying weather conditions, track conditions, tire conditions, different drivers (different launches), ECU adaptations, etc...... And even if we were to have the same driver drive a powerchiped car and we recorded 3 of his best runs, then made him drive the same car with a RennTech (or any other company) tune, and run in same track, same conditions (and fixed all other parameters), results may still vary. The same driver may get a "slightly" better launch on one run, or a slight loss of traction on another, and then maybe the car does better on one top-end part of a particular run, then not on the other, and on and on...... way too many variations. Plus, it becomes fairly difficult to produce the exact same identical launch a second time.......

That being said, last July, a member on this forum and his cousin came out to Famoso with 2 E55s (one was an 03 model and one was an 04 model). The 2003 model was Powerchipped (no pulley) and had an air filter, but the other car was completely stock (but had chrome rims). The powerchipped car ran a consistent 13.0 to 13.2 while stock car ran 12.8 to 13.0 Then the drivers actually switched cars and ran again, but got same results: the powerchip car ran a bit slower. The whole reason they came out to the track was because the powerchip car showed no hp gain on the dyno. And yes, he had changed the IC pump 3 weeks prior to coming to the track (and he needed that day because temp was 92 F ). Also, I've got other examples of powerchipped 63s running worse time than my stock 63, but unfortunately on different tracks.

However, I've seen the Powerchip ML63 dynos and have personally driven one, and I have to say was very impressed. I don't know why the ML version of the tune is any different than the other 63 tunes, but I definately felt a good improvement when I drove the powerchipped ML (which actually showed that improvement on the dyno).

Thankfully, we have too many companies to chose from. And although I would never chose Powerchip again, I would definately consider a VRP/Powerchip versioin because I honostly do trust Vadim's and Victor's work. And I'm very thankful I've found them (as well as many other great members) on this forum, as they've helped in leading the way to better beasts , and have guided many of us through a lot of clutter....

 

Some much useful information...that now im even more confused!!!! lol Powerchip does offer a 14 day no questions asked money back guarantee. Do any other products do this???? This alone might set them apart, since you can dyno the car prior and then after. Anyone with dyno willing to do some probono work for this market research!!!!????

 

The dyno data is being generated, as will real world numbers at the track.
The satisfaction guarantee is a nice deal. I don't know of any other tuner that offers that on ANY products.

 

Even though my car is stock (I think), my rev limiter hits 6500, wouldn't it be safe to assume someone did something to the computer?

 

Not at all. It should hit 6500. The key is how fast will it go? If it holds at 155 - 160, then it is not tuned.
On a typical ECU tune, a few extra hundred revs is common, but I dunno what good it really does on the E55s. Our power bands start at low enough revs that we don't have to be screeming when we shift up to still be in the band. As it is, you can basically short shift it and it is almost as fast. I don't know if it is better to be in a lower gear and at 4K rpms or in a higher one at maybe 3K?

At any rate, 6500 isn't much these days. Our motors aren't exactly marvels of technology.

 

Evotech offers the same 15 days no money back guarantee.

 

Not really true...

Veloce originally made a claim of before and after results... 40-50hp from the tune... Not a peak No# They also posted saying things like their tunes alone beating cars with other Tuners ECU upgrade + Pulley. Their ECU only cars beating cars with ECU + Pulley.

I for one jumped on them... YOU NOTICE THEY NEVER BACKED UP THEIR CLAIMS??!!!??

I just don't like B.S. And people trying to take us for fools.

Best,

RoydRage