cjf_moraga

A glimpse at the new w212 here?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...cedes-e-class/

Not quite sure how credible this article is, though it seems reasonably well informed. A 544 HP V8 engine can only be the new AMG... which feels on the low side compared with what we are now seeing from Cadillac and Audi.. Does not even seem a TT which surely would deliver more than just 26 HP over the current 518 HP 63 engine... The HP rating also seems suspiciously inside the maximum torque capacity of the current 7-speed... so no upgraded transmission either? Quite disappointed if this is really how the w212 will turn out...

The styling does not do much for me either. Both the new S and C class are striking designs. This is a pretty bland by comparison .. though it may look quite different in the flesh as is often the case..

Well its all still speculation but not feeling particularly good vibes about the w212 based on what can be gleaned here and elsewhere...

Note also the comments from Thomas Weber on downsizing MB engines...

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/m...wnsize-engines

Chris

MB_Forever

I've read a couple of articles that mentioned that same exact figure. This is really disappointing

However, I still think (and so do many other people) that Mercedes will reveal a Twin Turbo 63 engine down the road. All the competition seem to be stepping up their game, so how can Mercedes not?

Jakpro1

Wow, this just took the wind right out of my sails.

I just can't say enough what a mistake this is AMG!!! I understand that AMG is not making cars for modders, but this is definitely gonna lose some sales for them.

RS6 turb monster comes out, I gotta at least take a drive in er.

Still have that wild card of turbo M's and maybe Audi actually releasing the monster RS6 to put AMG in 3rd place and forcing them to counter.

If they don't, we're s-crewed.

cjf_moraga

Yes... One reason why I went to the V12 from my E55... The M275 engine has lots of reserve capacity for mods ... up to 620 hp and 775 torque with a Rentech upgrade for example.

In the w212 544 HP seems just an upgrade of the existing NA 63 engine. Essentially pretty much the same as you can get from a 63 Rentech upgrade!

If this is true seems the TT is no earlier than the mid model-cycle makeover... c. 2012/2013! But AMG will be feeling the competitive pressure long before that... (Like now!)

Chris

CynCarvin32

There is a turbo motor coming to replace things but where it will fit in the big picture is more unknown. The V12 TT motor is on its way out. Its not going to be in the next generation cars since its still based on the 3 valve design from 2001.

The new TT V8 may be replacing the V12 TT since a V12 TT is so bad for pollution and fuel efficiency standards. The scary reality is as time goes on these fast cars are going to start vanishing. In 2012 the end could really be here with new very strict rules about MPG and C02 gas emissions.

Now the word out there is that yes there is a V8 TT motor in testing but its not what everyone will expect. But power for that motor should be 600+. The question remains which cars will see that motor? S65/SL65/CL65 replacements? Or will it be a mid range motor making the 65's useless?

If bmw really has a TT V10 coming with 600 hp things could be pretty interesting since rumor has it no TT in the V8 AMG for the W212.

cjf_moraga

Thats a very good observation CynCarvin32... I had not thought that the TT V8 might be the replacement for the current V12... There is a certain logic there... It may also be that a new, stronger transmission is still some ways off... which limits more powerful engines. (Unless the older 5-speed is used)

You are right that a V12 is increasingly against the zeitgiest... one reason I wanted to enjoy one now!

Chris

J 2OOI

Please tell me this isn't so...

that car makes me

MB_Forever

That picture is just a rendition. The car will not look like that when it comes out. Mercedes would not do it!

User110

i sure hope so


for their sake



ALi

CynCarvin32

It should be a safe bet to say that 5 years has allowed them enough time to make the 7g trans accept the torque of the larger motors. They should be in the big torque cars soon.

They cant keep using 5 speeds when the competition has moved to 8 speeds.

Thericker

Damn NO TT, & look at the goofy square headlights not to mention the giant truck style rearview mirrors there bigger than the drivers head for crying out loud! The current E55/E63 are going to be hard to pry from drivers hands w/this offering.

Kyle M

Is it possible that this is a "lesser" turbocharged version of the 6.2 for the E class that makes 544 horses and possibly 600+ torque? Perhaps this is low psi and they have bigger turbos to put on the 6.2 for the S class, etc?

mosesgolf

I thought it was a C Class at first glance.
I hope we don't see what happened during the 1970's and early 1980's when it comes to car performance. Those were TERRIBLE years for car enthusiasts. Downsizing of engines doesn't necesarily mean less horsepower. Looks like turbocharging will be the way to replace displacement in the future.

MB_Forever

That's what I'm thinking. I think the new E63 will have 544 hp, but then they'll be another step up from that E63TT to replace the 65s (at least for a while).

Thanks......

deaguero

I'm dissapointed as we get closer to the official release. I'm hoping as you do that the real car looks much (and I mean much better) than this photo!

Maybe I'll keep the E55 or go somewhere else for my next car

Man, this is real lame looking, ugh! MBZ, you can do better than this!!

Jakpro1

So wild that you posted this. (about Benz scaling back hp)

Was watching news articles from Detroit Auto Show and was like "What the....?"

Basically came across to me like,

Today Cadillac announced a 550hp flame thrower with more models possibly to get the monster motor.

In other news Mercedes unveiled a car another car that will single handedly save the planet.

Next day.

People still buzzing about the 550hp Cadillac and rumors of upgrades in the future to near 600hp.

In other news, Mercedes showed off another green machine that reportedly will "toss the Earth's salad" after saving it.

deaguero

BOFLOL

J 2001, where did you get that barf icon????

MB_Forever

If you click on "More" at the bottom of the Smilies window, it'll open another window with a lot more choices of smilies. One of them is that puke icon....

Yacht Master

How do you spell letdown?

Time to reconsider other "other AMGs".
I had high hopes for a TT63 (for three years now)
I may start a pole, Would you spend $120K for a 625HP. E class?
The smart move is to a S, SL, CL V12TT over the E63 N/A.

deaguero

Funny

MB_Forever

I thought you'd like that one

Hey, are you coming to Fontana? Try to make it, it'll definately be fun. This is the first time we're able to run at Fontana in a cool weather (65 F). Almost every other time we went out there, temps were around 87 F

Skeeter

Yeah, looks like they already figured out how to get the 7 speed up to spec:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/c...-amg-facelift/

This article shows an official (but still vague) photo of the 'new' SL series, with the story indicating availability of the 600 h.p. SL65 V12 mated to the 7-speed transmission.

Might be an error, but the article clearly states that both the V12 and the new 63 motor "will be available with the AMG SpeedShift MCT 7-speed". No date, but the styling and 'official' photo indicate that it isn't going to be a multi-year wait. Good news, I guess...

Skeeter

Carl Lassiter

When has the current 6.2 ever felt underpowered? Guys, 500bhp and above is plenty for a luxurious yet sporty 4-door sedan. Especially with RWD. You can leave literally anything in your wake as it is so horsepower wars are not necessary. Porsche rise above them yet continue to deliver class leaders.

chiromikey

its becoming easier and easier to wait for the rs6...

kipper215

that would be sad if merc falls behind in the numbers game. that was the one advantage they had over the rest of the group. with more strict air laws and high fuel cost we may be at the end of an era. I agree the 500 horse power is plenty. there are only a hand full of stock sedans out there that can keep pace with the 55. I went for a ride in my friends M5 and it was apples to oranges. violent shifts and the suspension felt like my evo 8 did. the car had crazy top end power but was not strong off the line. when we got in my 55 it was soooo smooth. the shifting was soooo smooth and that's when I realized what merc is really about, LUXURY. I think merc maybe trying to get back to that. I had an 80 year old man talk to me yesterday and he look at my car and said. that is one fine automobile. when I was your age that's all I drove was Mercedes. they are the best car makers in the world. of course we all have a different view in todays world, but that memory in his mind came from fact. it will be interesting to see how merc gets that reputation back. the 63 is just a taste of the refinment to come. everyone knows there will always be someone out there faster, with over the top handling, but i don't think mercedes is really about that. we know they can build a car with extreme handling, blk series. for speed SLR 722. but, now it's about quality and engineering. so the days to come will be interesting.