phatmitzu

Dynoed my car on Monday. What a disappointment it was...

The dyno was done at the same shop, same dyno, at around same time of the year with similar weather conditions.

Dyno#002 was done almost a year ago while the car was totally stock rolling on 20s'

Dyno#010 was done this past Monday with the addition of ASP Pulley, Jag Belt, Code3 HE, Johnson Pump, K&N Filter and VRUS Python Air Tubes.



I only gained some at mid range then fell under at high ends. I was expecting at least 40+ whp across the line.

I highly doubt I was suffering from head soak because we did 7+ runs with all similar outcomes. We've also done some datalogging with the IAT never past 120'. The ASP was installed ~2 months ago without any issue driving on the road.

I suspect the problem is belt slippage?

Your thoughts?

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Do you have your ECU tuned to take advantage of the mods? I think this is a commonly overlooked issue. ECU should smooth out the power delivery a bit and squeeze out your top end. Remember that the stock computer is definitely not tuned to take advantage of a pulley.

phatmitzu

Not yet.
Unfortunately, the tailpipe A/F sniffer at the shop was not available at the time, and I do not have a bung welded for their O2 plugs.
From the dynos that I've seen, even without ECU tuning, I should be gaining 40ish whp with the boosting over stock?

V12Godspeed

Ohhh. No no no my friend big mistake. My car was living proof of the need for an ECU tune. I had so much mods on my car that if I was to part it out I could buy me and extra little Benz at the side. My car was making only a ****ty 465 RWHP, after I got the ECU tune, I was way over 525RWHP. Just food for thought. Also after getting the tune I ran 11.5 at 122 which I couldn't do without a tune. Without the tune I was running 12.2 all the time, which is not bad either.

So all I recommend is get your self a tune and sit back and dyno again.

Timeless

Yep, it has been proven that the tune is necessary. Without the tune, you can actually lose power.

TopGun32

there is something wrong.

have you received your secondary air pump retro fit with new ECU flash? before the stock or after the stock pull.

also.. not sure about the air tubes and K&N... I would try with out first.


bigger pulley and FMIC should make more power no doubt about it.. you can feel it everywhere in the rev band.

Many have dyno'd the asp pullies without the ECU and made power.. but once you add additional items.. it gets a bit messy.

Try the stock air hoses.

I don't think its slippage... you would of seen spike and drop in power.

I remember Jangy loosing top en power when he removed the air hoses from his set up. This may not be the case.. but its worth a try.

Jakpro1

Gotta flash her bro. ECU is freakin with all that new stuff thrown at it.

Gotta find a tuner and flash away. You'll be impressed with the results provided you get a good tune.

phatmitzu

Note to self: ECU releases the Beast.

I'd probably go with either EVOtech or VRUS(since their new Costa Mesa shop is only 45 mins away from me). They both uses Powerchip reflash correct?
Or should I consider any others as well?

I will be putting on headers and TB in the future. Should I wait to do the ECU after then or it does not matter?


400rwp is just not that much anymore...

Yacht Master

My guess is that your car has been flashed even before the first dyno and has the load limits in effect. From what I understand this condition will net less than acceptable results in regard to mods installed. More information in VRP post https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/223338-vr550-m113-55-kompressor.html

Dont worry you will find your HP.

zoink

Not sure about that.... depending on the condition at time of 1st dyno, I think the numbers are pretty close to mine when stock (400-420whp/450-470wtq). Mine was done in low to mid 70's w/ 60% humidity if my memory serves me right. Or... was mine quite weak also (been flashed)? I haven't dyno'd after the mods.... but if Adam guesses it right, my car should be gain 50whp/50wtq. More if mine was flashed before.

As for ECU tune, not sure whether you could get a lot higher numbers in wtq. whp wise I would agree... but not wtq. I'm not basing on sophisticated or technical knowledge.... just some observations from various posts.

BTW, I don't think EVOtech is powerchip. Adam should be able to give you more info on it.

jangy

Zoink, what are you saying? I don't think i get it.

zoink

Which part?

I mean...

phatmitzu's stock numbers are not off the chart. Mine was quite similar.

Given the mods, ECU tune - based on my observations - does not seem to help increase torque numbers (if it would, it won't be more than 10wtq). It could increase hp, which certainly helps 1/4-mile time... just like MIG said.

Evotech is not powerchip.

Hope it clears now...

jangy

But with an ASP pulley?

Havoc

Yes, an ECU Tune will increase the both WTQ and WHP to where they should be for your Specific Combination.
You should do more than just a ECU Flash for Mutiple Modifications.
The "Right" Tuner will create or already have a ECU Modification Program Tune for your Specific Modifications.
It will bring both WTQ and WHP up to where your Modifications will Perform to their Maximum.

zoink

I'm referring to his stock numbers (Dyno 002). And this was in response to Yacht suspicion that phatmitzu's car was flashed before the 1st dyno (Dyno 002 - pre-mod dyno). So either Yacht is right, which means my car was also flashed prior to mods... or he's wrong. I think (I hope ) he's wrong as quite a lot of stock dyno's posted in this forum show 400-420 whp & 450-470wtq.

I agree that his numbers are awfully low given the mods... but I am not sure whether ECU tune alone could increase both whp and wtq numbers on Dyno 010 (after mods). So far - limited to what members have posted, ECU tunes seem to increase whp numbers but not wtq. Could be a biased sample...

If I'm right RE: ECU tune effect on whp/wtq, there must be something wrong (either the parts, the install or ...) as wtq after mods seems very low.

EDIT: Wrong quoted numbers on Dyno 002 My bad

RoydRage

You must get an ECU Tune... Had your car been in to Mercedes in this last year... If so the load limiter is a Manditory update flash. After this was implemented on my car... It felt like it was running on 6 cylinders.

To take advantage of the pulley, you need an ECU tune anyway...

Fedex That Badboy over to Adam @ EuroElites/EuroTech
ASAP... Maybe ask him if he will give you the Sale price that he was having a while ago... Tell him every mod you have, and Oliver will do a custom tune for your specific combination!

He worked wonders with my car... Very highly recomended.

Best,

RoydRage

phatmitzu

...I did...
Mine is an 05'... (Hoping the update flash doesnt apply to me...?)
Won't they show the flash done on the paper though?

Dang it.


Edit:
I think I AM suffering from the load limiter flash.
Just read through one of the VRUS thread and found this...
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....9&postcount=64

Does look like how mine was...even after the increased boost, I actually lost power on top.

Thank you Mercedes!

BlownV8

Dude, if you are increasing rwhp you are also increasing rwtq. HP = (torque * RPM)/5252

dkallencat1

Manditory load limiter update flash! whats up with that? I have not had my car into the dealer this past year, but I haven't heard nothing about that. So are you saying when I take my car in next month to be service they will do that? and what does that do to your car.

MRAMG1

Not counting the load limit tune from MB, I'M with you on this one. MANY, and I do mean MANY board members gained little if NOTHING after a tune. Albeit I have a C32 with pullies and NO tune, and love her. I am just saying talk to topgun32, and MANY others on this forum, and depending on the tuner, it could lead to ALOT of money with NO gain. BUYER beware here, IMHO

See yeah

zoink

Not necessarily... It depends on the shape of the curve. And ECU tunes could greatly change the shape of the curve - more so on hp curve.

See below:
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...7&d=1196140037

Dyno #5 is further ECU tuning of Dyno #3. See that max wtq only increased by 3 but max. whp increased by 30? How come? From what I see is because further ECU tune could hold the wtq curve high longer.

I know my comments may be completely wrong... and I'm ready to stand corrected. But your equation there only addresses relationship between hp and tq curve. In other words, if you know one curve, you could plot the other curve. That's all... it nowhere indicates the shape of the curve.

I wish one could give me more technical background... or some evidence showing that ECU tune alone could increase max. wtq greatly.

zoink

Do a search... I think there is one consistent JOB description on your invoice when your ECU is flashed.

Yacht Master

phatmitzu the recall #2006-030011 started in early 2006 (April) so if you car was at the dealer any time after that you may have been flashed. MB pays the dealer well for doing the dirty work. I still don't know if it was to save the E55s drive train from excessive warranty claims or the more sinister reason to slow them down against the newly introduced E63. Whatever the reason, I am happy to see the advancements VRP has made in understanding and retuning our ECU & TCUs this is not a simple feat. Here is a post from the past worth a read.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ir+pump+recall

TopGun32

I agree with this..

until recently.. VRP's tune, I was skeptical about tuning cars. With so many releases of flashes from MB, it was hard to spend $1k for additional 15RWHP.

However if VRP has found away to remove the torque limitations and they can prove on a dyno that you gain usable power across the rev band.. it will be a good investment.

ECU and Pulley is the best combo..no doubt.. but I was not sure if it was worth the extra money.

$1250 for a flash is still bit too much for me.. specially with a lousy housing market, lousy financial stock market ....

phatmitzu

I'm leaning more towards VRP too because they are local. Hope they will release some more tuning results.