Five Killed In A 2008 BMW M5
#51
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes
on
9 Posts
2013 SL 550 (Previously 2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo-S, 2015 Tesla P85D, 2007 S600, 2005 E55 AMG)
I take a harsh line with this type of situation, as far as I am concerned it is good riddance to get an idiot like this off the road, the only good that came out of this is that he did it on a private road and no innocent third parties were killed or injured. The people who were in the car with him made the decision to get into a high performance car with a young guy who may or may not have been drunk so they deserve no sympathy either. If the car was a gift or borrowed from a parent then they also share the blame and should suffer the consequences for this stupidity, a couple of years behind bars and a nice fine are whats required.
#52
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
997C2S
I take a harsh line with this type of situation, as far as I am concerned it is good riddance to get an idiot like this off the road, the only good that came out of this is that he did it on a private road and no innocent third parties were killed or injured. The people who were in the car with him made the decision to get into a high performance car with a young guy who may or may not have been drunk so they deserve no sympathy either. If the car was a gift or borrowed from a parent then they also share the blame and should suffer the consequences for this stupidity, a couple of years behind bars and a nice fine are whats required.
There were four innocent passengers that were killed by the driver's absolutely stupid and fatal mistake. Also, there were dozens of family members and friends that were terribly hurt by this senseless tragedy.
People like you should live on a deserted island by yourselves, since you have no compassion for others and don't offer anything positive to society. Have a little sympathy you JERK!
#55
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
540 6spd
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Darwinian selection is ultimately unavoidable...and beneficial for society....
Suspect an irresponsible driver can easily manage to kill/maim himself/others in any <200hp car/SUV.....plenty of >30yo guys driving while intoxicated manage to accomplish this while driving elderly, underpowered pickups/SUVs/econoboxes....
Conversely, know several smart, mature guys who graduated from college at 19-20yo; leased various high-powered cars w/their first Wall Street bonuses as <21yo guys; have never had an accid (and have amazingly cheap insurance premiums)....and are now >30yo codgers driving 500hp+ cars....they tend to know where/when it makes sense to drive in a spirited manner....
Generally, guys who are responsible high-achievers display maturity in their decision-making skills in many aspects of life, incl driving....
Would argue real responsibility of any competent parents is to instill sound risk/reward judgment and solid driving skills in kids as they hand them a car...
And, whether kids are responsible/not, would suspect any competent parents would want them driving safest car possible (a new S-Class or at least a new C-Class w/well-mtd tires/safety systems; any SUV is arguably less safe than any new MB sedan)....after all, any responsible driver can face a serious, unavoidable collision caused by others....and cost of any new car is far cheaper than enormous costs (to family and, ultimately, society) of surviving any accident w/life-altering disabilities....
Suspect an irresponsible driver can easily manage to kill/maim himself/others in any <200hp car/SUV.....plenty of >30yo guys driving while intoxicated manage to accomplish this while driving elderly, underpowered pickups/SUVs/econoboxes....
Conversely, know several smart, mature guys who graduated from college at 19-20yo; leased various high-powered cars w/their first Wall Street bonuses as <21yo guys; have never had an accid (and have amazingly cheap insurance premiums)....and are now >30yo codgers driving 500hp+ cars....they tend to know where/when it makes sense to drive in a spirited manner....
Generally, guys who are responsible high-achievers display maturity in their decision-making skills in many aspects of life, incl driving....
Would argue real responsibility of any competent parents is to instill sound risk/reward judgment and solid driving skills in kids as they hand them a car...
And, whether kids are responsible/not, would suspect any competent parents would want them driving safest car possible (a new S-Class or at least a new C-Class w/well-mtd tires/safety systems; any SUV is arguably less safe than any new MB sedan)....after all, any responsible driver can face a serious, unavoidable collision caused by others....and cost of any new car is far cheaper than enormous costs (to family and, ultimately, society) of surviving any accident w/life-altering disabilities....
#57
He's also engaging in his favorite *other* pasttime besides portraying BMWs as the veritable Jesus Christ of cars: censorship. He deleted several of the young man's posts, locked one of the last threads in which he was participating, and deleted the other thread (along with his posts) entirely.
This was a post of his yesterday, but now it, along with the thread containing it and a number of the young man's posts, have mysteriously disappeared:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...21#post1236121
I read the thread myself. It was a thread about some guys getting together and renting an airstrip in Fla, and he said he'd participate. I personally think it's ridiculous to delete this, as renting an airstrip is not the same as sneaking onto one at 3AM, but Gustav has always been weird about deleting posts.
This was a post of his yesterday, but now it, along with the thread containing it and a number of the young man's posts, have mysteriously disappeared:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...21#post1236121
I read the thread myself. It was a thread about some guys getting together and renting an airstrip in Fla, and he said he'd participate. I personally think it's ridiculous to delete this, as renting an airstrip is not the same as sneaking onto one at 3AM, but Gustav has always been weird about deleting posts.
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
This is a horrible tradgedy...its also a grim reminder to us not to ever drink and drive and that when we are going at speeds over 100mph, if something goes wrong you and your passengers are dead. This is so sad...I feel for everyone involved in this...
#59
Super Member
Ironic that they crashed and burned on an airstrip, and cnn's next story is that of a aircraft crashing and burning on the highway.
#60
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Jersey
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
It is a tradgedy what happened. There has been alot of accidents in my town too recently involving kids i went to school with. But just because you
re young doesnt make you a dangerous or irresponsible driver. Im 20 and i have a w211 e55, and yes i do drive fast sometimes like everyone on these boards, but i do it safely and i would consider myself a pretty good driver. I have 0 fault accidents, 0 tickets since ive been driving. Also couldnt they have been in any vehicle and had the same result? They were driving drunk at 3 oclock in the morning, even if they werent on the airstrip, the samething could have happened on the streets.
re young doesnt make you a dangerous or irresponsible driver. Im 20 and i have a w211 e55, and yes i do drive fast sometimes like everyone on these boards, but i do it safely and i would consider myself a pretty good driver. I have 0 fault accidents, 0 tickets since ive been driving. Also couldnt they have been in any vehicle and had the same result? They were driving drunk at 3 oclock in the morning, even if they werent on the airstrip, the samething could have happened on the streets.
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
Posts: 3,642
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
11 Posts
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
And you may want to reconsider "it does not matter what car you are driving" it dose, I don't think anyone would want to leave a party to ride in a 1984 Oldsmobile ceria. or even a Geo metro.
Again no dis intended, please understand the reality. This driver was getting ready to go to an airport event in South Florida. He posted hours before his death that he would attend, latter that night he and his buddies make some practice runs and over shoot the end of the runway. Was that stupid? He could have lost the brakes Some may say better on the runway than highway. We only know a few facts, 19 year old, 500 hp car. Now the father that made this possible is in a place that must be the worst. The families of the victims will take everything he has in wrongful death suits.
I can't imagine.
Last edited by Yacht Master; 01-27-2008 at 05:03 PM.
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,006
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'07 Porsche 997TT
Not quite true, and actuarial science will prove your statement wrong every time. Not looking for a debate here. It is a fact that drivers 16-25 are the highest risk group. Why? They have the best vision, reaction time, their brain works faster and they have spent 15 years in a ride along school, They should be the best drivers of all, they are not and the statistics prove it out overwhelmingly. It has everything to do with age.
And you may want to reconsider "it does not matter what car you are driving" it dose, I don't think anyone would want to leave a party to ride in a 1984 Oldsmobile ceria. or even a Geo metro.
Again no dis intended, please understand the reality. This driver was getting ready to go to an airport event in South Florida. He posted hours before his death that he would attend, latter that night he and his buddies make some practice runs and over shoot the end of the runway. Was that stupid? He could have lost the brakes Some may say better on the runway than highway. We only know a few facts, 19 year old, 500 hp car. Now the father that made this possible is in a place that must be the worst. The families of the victims will take everything he has in wrongful death suits.
I can't imagine.
And you may want to reconsider "it does not matter what car you are driving" it dose, I don't think anyone would want to leave a party to ride in a 1984 Oldsmobile ceria. or even a Geo metro.
Again no dis intended, please understand the reality. This driver was getting ready to go to an airport event in South Florida. He posted hours before his death that he would attend, latter that night he and his buddies make some practice runs and over shoot the end of the runway. Was that stupid? He could have lost the brakes Some may say better on the runway than highway. We only know a few facts, 19 year old, 500 hp car. Now the father that made this possible is in a place that must be the worst. The families of the victims will take everything he has in wrongful death suits.
I can't imagine.
Parents, send your kids to some driving school. You young guys, instead of buying some new mods take that money and go do Skip Barber or Bondurant or something like that. Everyone thinks they're a great driver - trust me, you suck. Don't mean to be an a$$ about it but unless you've already done some serious instruction you have no idea about vehicle dynamics - not blaming you it's just not possible unless you've experienced it firsthand.
A couple of weeks ago I dropped off my daughter at a friends house. It started to rain so I slowed it way down. I think most would agree that my car is somewhat capable (especially in the rain) and having done at least 6 different racing schools over the years, consider myself an adequate driver, I still slowed way down. I see this kid in a piece of crap 1982 or something Ford Taurus and he is absolutely flying - weaving in and out of traffic like you coulnd't believe. I'd be shocked if that kid didn't get his wheels on the grass at some point during that trip.
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Phoenix by way of Texas
Posts: 1,010
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
You are not a hater....
To blame a 500 hp car evil is like blaming a knife or gun, they are just hunks of inert metal and only when combined with people can the combination become dangerous.
My condolences go with the passengers and the family's of the people affected and not the driver. The driver was an adult....why would we hold the driver to a different standard to other adults?
I think when I have kids, they go right to driving school at the track at 10-12 years old. Learn about cars and the dangers early so that they may gain an appreciation for the dangers when they hit the road at 16.
To blame a 500 hp car evil is like blaming a knife or gun, they are just hunks of inert metal and only when combined with people can the combination become dangerous.
My condolences go with the passengers and the family's of the people affected and not the driver. The driver was an adult....why would we hold the driver to a different standard to other adults?
I think when I have kids, they go right to driving school at the track at 10-12 years old. Learn about cars and the dangers early so that they may gain an appreciation for the dangers when they hit the road at 16.
Like I said earlier, don't put restrictions on the cars people can buy, put restrictions on the age people can drive and give them the proper training.
#64
M5board.com is an enthusiast board and we don't condone any dangerous activity. Our airfield events are completely safe based on years of experience, we conduct it in the light with mature members and we clearly mark the braking zones. If inexperienced with high speed driving we do not recommend organizing your own event but attending a high-performance driving school.
#65
My prayers go out to the families...
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
Posts: 3,642
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
11 Posts
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
[QUOTE=Improviz;2620616]Dunno....but imo his butt is already covered by the following disclaimer, excerpted from a paragraph which appears at the bottom of every page:
QUOTE]
I would not want to be in Gustav's shoes right now.
I am not a Lawyer but I know one thing....
OJ is guilty
And in a US court of law anything can happen.
Any good lawyer can undermine that disclaimer in minutes.
QUOTE]
I would not want to be in Gustav's shoes right now.
I am not a Lawyer but I know one thing....
OJ is guilty
And in a US court of law anything can happen.
Any good lawyer can undermine that disclaimer in minutes.
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,006
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'07 Porsche 997TT
The press is reading M5board
Quotes from M5board members already in the papers:
http://www.ocala.com/article/2008012.../BREAKING_NEWS
http://www.ocala.com/article/2008012.../BREAKING_NEWS
#69
Almost a Member!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Land of Silly Taxes
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2006 M6
[quote=Yacht Master;2620658]
??? What would Gustav have to fear? His board and members trying to talk sense into the adult who trepassed and kill himself + 4 friends by driving an unfamilar car in a wreckless manner (maybe drunk)?
There is the court of public opinion in which case the M5board seems to be winning as a result of the members giving the adult driver in this case some solid advice.
In a court of law, internet posts tend to mean nothing except in extreme rare cases. Besides, last time I checked M5board is over in Sweden. This goes for this case and the Bluemax incident....thankfully the admins here and at M5board are responsible and have little to fear.
We are a litigious society but someone wise wrote over the past few days that it might be time for some of the people directly involved in this case to take some responsibility....
Dunno....but imo his butt is already covered by the following disclaimer, excerpted from a paragraph which appears at the bottom of every page:
QUOTE]
I would not want to be in Gustav's shoes right now.
I am not a Lawyer but I know one thing....
OJ is guilty
And in a US court of law anything can happen.
Any good lawyer can undermine that disclaimer in minutes.
QUOTE]
I would not want to be in Gustav's shoes right now.
I am not a Lawyer but I know one thing....
OJ is guilty
And in a US court of law anything can happen.
Any good lawyer can undermine that disclaimer in minutes.
??? What would Gustav have to fear? His board and members trying to talk sense into the adult who trepassed and kill himself + 4 friends by driving an unfamilar car in a wreckless manner (maybe drunk)?
There is the court of public opinion in which case the M5board seems to be winning as a result of the members giving the adult driver in this case some solid advice.
In a court of law, internet posts tend to mean nothing except in extreme rare cases. Besides, last time I checked M5board is over in Sweden. This goes for this case and the Bluemax incident....thankfully the admins here and at M5board are responsible and have little to fear.
We are a litigious society but someone wise wrote over the past few days that it might be time for some of the people directly involved in this case to take some responsibility....
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 E55 Black / Black Every available option except Sat radio
It is a tradgedy what happened. There has been alot of accidents in my town too recently involving kids i went to school with. But just because you
re young doesnt make you a dangerous or irresponsible driver. Im 20 and i have a w211 e55, and yes i do drive fast sometimes like everyone on these boards, but i do it safely and i would consider myself a pretty good driver. I have 0 fault accidents, 0 tickets since ive been driving. Also couldnt they have been in any vehicle and had the same result? They were driving drunk at 3 oclock in the morning, even if they werent on the airstrip, the samething could have happened on the streets.
re young doesnt make you a dangerous or irresponsible driver. Im 20 and i have a w211 e55, and yes i do drive fast sometimes like everyone on these boards, but i do it safely and i would consider myself a pretty good driver. I have 0 fault accidents, 0 tickets since ive been driving. Also couldnt they have been in any vehicle and had the same result? They were driving drunk at 3 oclock in the morning, even if they werent on the airstrip, the samething could have happened on the streets.
I'm 36 & have been driving for ~20 years. I grew up in Buffalo and we had some of the nastiest driving conditions known to man, so I seen it all. I've went sideways on ice and spun around on major highways and seen alot. The key to my personal experiences is the seen alot part, at 20 respectfully you've seen enough to get by and need to know that with 500 HP there is always a problem around the corner.
If your mature enough to realize that you car is a safety wrapper for your body to travel fast, your ahead of the game.
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 E55 Black / Black Every available option except Sat radio
We had just been messing with each other on Bonita Beach Rd 2 days before that happened. Too much traffic for us to realy get into it, but he was passin the the double yellow just to get up to me out by where he lived. It's hard to forget a Yellow Zo6 in your rear view.
That was a shame.....
That was a shame.....
I raced him as well in my M6 Convertible and lost. I had that Silver / Black M6 before this car and it wasn't as fast as my E55. It had some better handling qualities but for straightline speed, it's night and day. The M6 was a whiny btich and needed alot of babying and my kids complained about being cooked eggs in the back, so I got rid of it. I was all ready to buy a E63 but found out that the Dynamic seats we're a thing of past and the E63 is actually a slower car. I was then going to get a S63 and figured out that it was about a second slower to 60 and was a way to heavy pig. I stopped by a Galeana chrysler store and picked up a freshly traded $97K sticker E55 for $50K cash plus tax.
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 E55 Black / Black Every available option except Sat radio
[QUOTE=T Bone;2620677]
??? What would Gustav have to fear? His board and members trying to talk sense into the adult who trepassed and kill himself + 4 friends by driving an unfamilar car in a wreckless manner (maybe drunk)?
There is the court of public opinion in which case the M5board seems to be winning as a result of the members giving the adult driver in this case some solid advice.
In a court of law, internet posts tend to mean nothing except in extreme rare cases. Besides, last time I checked M5board is over in Sweden. This goes for this case and the Bluemax incident....thankfully the admins here and at M5board are responsible and have little to fear.
We are a litigious society but someone wise wrote over the past few days that it might be time for some of the people directly involved in this case to take some responsibility....
I was on gustav's board and he lives in fear there, paranoid.
??? What would Gustav have to fear? His board and members trying to talk sense into the adult who trepassed and kill himself + 4 friends by driving an unfamilar car in a wreckless manner (maybe drunk)?
There is the court of public opinion in which case the M5board seems to be winning as a result of the members giving the adult driver in this case some solid advice.
In a court of law, internet posts tend to mean nothing except in extreme rare cases. Besides, last time I checked M5board is over in Sweden. This goes for this case and the Bluemax incident....thankfully the admins here and at M5board are responsible and have little to fear.
We are a litigious society but someone wise wrote over the past few days that it might be time for some of the people directly involved in this case to take some responsibility....
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,006
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'07 Porsche 997TT
Was just thinking of something else that maybe some of you young guys can answer. Is there anything called a curfew anymore? I don't really remember but i'm pretty sure I would have gotten my head handed to me if I was 18 and out at 3:00-4:00AM. Do most parents let their teen age kids stay out till all hours?
I'm not sure but i'm pretty sure I'd have a problem if my 18 yr. old was out at that time. As my Dad used to say: "nothing good happens at 3:00 in the morning".
I'm not sure but i'm pretty sure I'd have a problem if my 18 yr. old was out at that time. As my Dad used to say: "nothing good happens at 3:00 in the morning".
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: L.A., CA
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Very sad news. I know in England one cannot get behind the wheel of even a 340bhp M3 unless they are at least 25 or willing to spend $20k insurance each year. Also, the age to drive there is 17.
Whe I buy my kids cars their first cars they'll get the IS250 not IS350, C240 not 63, Audi 2.0...etc. Kids can kill themselves in all cars but 500bhp is sheer madness. Regardless, the parents did not deserve this.
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
Posts: 3,642
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
11 Posts
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
??? What would Gustav have to fear? His board and members trying to talk sense into the adult who trepassed and kill himself + 4 friends by driving an unfamilar car in a wreckless manner (maybe drunk)?
There is the court of public opinion in which case the M5board seems to be winning as a result of the members giving the adult driver in this case some solid advice.
In a court of law, internet posts tend to mean nothing except in extreme rare cases. Besides, last time I checked M5board is over in Sweden. This goes for this case and the Bluemax incident....thankfully the admins here and at M5board are responsible and have little to fear.
We are a litigious society but someone wise wrote over the past few days that it might be time for some of the people directly involved in this case to take some responsibility....
trespass
unfamiliar
reckless
Last edited by Yacht Master; 01-27-2008 at 09:38 PM.