Stock comparison 55 vs 63 1/4 mile
#76
Sooo....do the 1/4 mile runs have to be using the factory specified tire pressure in order to be "bone stock"? Just as the spare tire removal was not as it left the factory...so to would the air being released from the tire constitute a removal from factory specification.
I hate to be persnickety...but I think some people may be getting my point....that no one runs there cars at the track to the exact specification as the car came from the factory. Bone stock is a relative term...if you are trying to use your definition of bone stock as the dividing line, proof that every run was run with factory spec tire pressure is necessary to ensure that a true "bone stock" comparison is being perfomed. Some may dismiss this point, but it will be because it doesn't suit their underlying motives.
Tom
I hate to be persnickety...but I think some people may be getting my point....that no one runs there cars at the track to the exact specification as the car came from the factory. Bone stock is a relative term...if you are trying to use your definition of bone stock as the dividing line, proof that every run was run with factory spec tire pressure is necessary to ensure that a true "bone stock" comparison is being perfomed. Some may dismiss this point, but it will be because it doesn't suit their underlying motives.
Tom
Then we should define other terms that would be considered Stock, but not 100% Bone Stock. So, maybe call it "Almost Stock" or 98% Stock, or whatever. Something like this:
- Stock with X brand tires.
- Stock with X brand tires of Y width.
- Stock with no charcoal filters.
- Stock with X brand filters.
- Stock with X brand rims.
- etc....
But honostly, there should be a definition for 100% BONE STOCK car
#77
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Hollywood CA
2007 CLS63 030
Ok I have read the SCCA manual, which has a "showroom stock class"
Looks like there are alot of things we do that would be considered stock .
10mm increase in rubber as long as it is on the stock rim is still stock under the SCCA rules.
Taking out , tools and mats as well as the spare is allowed, actually required.
You can also take out and replace the airfilters as long as there is no modification to the box.
There is a minimum weight if you fall under it weight is added to match others cars.
So I think we can allow the 275 increase from 265 and also the filters on the 63. Removing the spare and mats and tools as well.
Brand of tire and tire pressure is also UNRESTRICTED. Must be a DOT approved tire available to the public, it can be shaved, heat cycled etc.. Must have some tread
Looks like there are alot of things we do that would be considered stock .
10mm increase in rubber as long as it is on the stock rim is still stock under the SCCA rules.
Taking out , tools and mats as well as the spare is allowed, actually required.
You can also take out and replace the airfilters as long as there is no modification to the box.
There is a minimum weight if you fall under it weight is added to match others cars.
So I think we can allow the 275 increase from 265 and also the filters on the 63. Removing the spare and mats and tools as well.
Brand of tire and tire pressure is also UNRESTRICTED. Must be a DOT approved tire available to the public, it can be shaved, heat cycled etc.. Must have some tread
Last edited by juicee63; 03-19-2008 at 11:11 PM.
#78
Ok I have read the SCCA manual, which has a "showroom stock class"
Looks like there are alot of things we do that would be considered stock .
10mm increase in rubber as long as it is on the stock rim is still stock under the SCCA rules.
Taking out , tools and mats as well as the spare is allowed, actually required.
You can also take out and replace the airfilters as long as there is no modification to the box.
There is a minimum weight if you fall under it weight is added to match others cars.
So I think we can allow the 275 increase from 265 and also the filters on the 63. Removing the spare and mats and tools as well.
Brand of tire and tire pressure is also UNRESTRICTED. Must be a DOT approved tire available to the public, it can be shaved, heat cycled etc.. Must have some tread
Looks like there are alot of things we do that would be considered stock .
10mm increase in rubber as long as it is on the stock rim is still stock under the SCCA rules.
Taking out , tools and mats as well as the spare is allowed, actually required.
You can also take out and replace the airfilters as long as there is no modification to the box.
There is a minimum weight if you fall under it weight is added to match others cars.
So I think we can allow the 275 increase from 265 and also the filters on the 63. Removing the spare and mats and tools as well.
Brand of tire and tire pressure is also UNRESTRICTED. Must be a DOT approved tire available to the public, it can be shaved, heat cycled etc.. Must have some tread
We all make mistakes. One comment I would like to make. If you drive in a rainy/snowy/ mountain roads/ very hot environments you use a brand of tires best suited for this environment.
A tire is to ensure the car is able to run on what ever surface it is needed to run on for optimal performance and safety, this is not an engine/ suspension modification and yes tires effect times.
I think mentioning what tires you used is enough
#79
Juicee:
To me, that definition makes sense. That is exactly the standard my brother used when he did SCCA and PCA autocrossing in his Boxster S. I think that same definition of "stock" should stand as far as 1/4 mile times recorded adhering to those minor mod's. I was only trying to make a point before on the tire pressure/spare..etc.
Tom
To me, that definition makes sense. That is exactly the standard my brother used when he did SCCA and PCA autocrossing in his Boxster S. I think that same definition of "stock" should stand as far as 1/4 mile times recorded adhering to those minor mod's. I was only trying to make a point before on the tire pressure/spare..etc.
Tom
#80
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,950
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From: Hollywood CA
2007 CLS63 030
MB forver... I believe you should take back a statement you made a while back about some one not been stock due to tires they used .
We all make mistakes. One comment I would like to make. If you drive in a rainy/snowy/ mountain roads/ very hot environments you use a brand of tires best suited for this environment.
A tire is to ensure the car is able to run on what ever surface it is needed to run on for optimal performance and safety, this is not an engine/ suspension modification and yes tires effect times.
I think mentioning what tires you used is enough
We all make mistakes. One comment I would like to make. If you drive in a rainy/snowy/ mountain roads/ very hot environments you use a brand of tires best suited for this environment.
A tire is to ensure the car is able to run on what ever surface it is needed to run on for optimal performance and safety, this is not an engine/ suspension modification and yes tires effect times.
I think mentioning what tires you used is enough
Zod,
He did not really make a mistake.
The rules are not really applicable to the E55 or E63 until it is certified by the SCCA. If the car is running 275mm tires it would not be compared time wise to cars running 265mm. The idea is to get all the cars under the same model badge runningthe same OEM specs. If somebody has a 275mm tire then that is fine but it would only be fair to compare to other cars with the same set up.
I definately have learned alot reading the 400 page SCCA pdf. I think I can more fairly compare times now and also be less quick to throw out someones pass because they have a different air filter or wider than oem tire.
The rules allow equality between cars that may not be 100% equal in measure.
IE. A stock E55 void Pano roof would be lighter than one with Pano. This would create TWO classes of E55 or the lighter car would get some weight added to run in the Pano roof class.
Anyway we have some work to do , right now we are working on a set of standards you must meet to claim "stock". It will be based on the SCCA , NHRA, IHRA, MVVC, and rules and a the of Public opinion.
MBFOREVER's statement and opinion is still accurate as far as making comparison's between models that are not similar in OEM setup. And his car definately is 100% OEM stock.
#81
MB_forver... I believe you should take back a statement you made a while back about some one not been stock due to tires they used .
We all make mistakes. One comment I would like to make. If you drive in a rainy/snowy/ mountain roads/ very hot environments you use a brand of tires best suited for this environment.
We all make mistakes. One comment I would like to make. If you drive in a rainy/snowy/ mountain roads/ very hot environments you use a brand of tires best suited for this environment.
Basically, I'm trying to make it easy to differentiate between 100% Bone Stock car running with factory tires (even factory tire pressure) and a slightly modified stock car running with X brand tires of different width. Logically, these two cars are not the identical. Yes, they can both be labeled stock, but one should have the added term of "100% Bone Stock". We all know, a simple change in tire brand can affect E.T. by as much as 0.3 seconds (higher or lower) if not more.
#82
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 667
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From: New York
old daily driver '07 E63(gone); new dd '14 750xi; 2013 Viper GTS
FYI, after several runs at Atco with factory specs I experimented with tire pressures and removed my spare guess what....my times were SLOWER. Could it be it was later in the day and the weather was changing...maybe, or maybe it was coincidence...the runs were only .1-.15 slower which is marginal.
#83
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Hollywood CA
2007 CLS63 030
FYI, after several runs at Atco with factory specs I experimented with tire pressures and removed my spare guess what....my times were SLOWER. Could it be it was later in the day and the weather was changing...maybe, or maybe it was coincidence...the runs were only .1-.15 slower which is marginal.
Could be that what many have said is true that removing the spare hurts the 60 ft's?
likely not enough weight to matter but should be worth a few hundreths, 4/100ths of a second at best . Perhaps the 60ft time degrades more than what is accomplished through weight loss?
#84
umm yeah we will be taking care of that right quick. FYI everyone Tom is my neighbor and new buddy, yes i know how cute right. Anyways he has an amazingly beautiful an rare obsidian black CL65. I got the honor of driving it and man is she quick. I am putting together a nice photoshoot for the both of us over the next couple of weeks. Needless to say, im excited to have "an east coast 65" in my crew
#85
Zod, please don't misunderstand what I said. What I was trying to say was we need to create some sort of definition for 100% BONE Stock. And I'm trying to involve as many members as I can to help with this definition. According to Josh's statement about SCCA, a car can still be stock with different tires and different width. This is perfectly fine with me, as I agree that a car should still be labeled stock even if it does have different brand tires and different width (wider or narrower), but it should be categorized as Stock with X brand tires of Y width, but what I don't agree on is labeling a car 100% Bone Stock when anything has changed on it even tire pressure.
Basically, I'm trying to make it easy to differentiate between 100% Bone Stock car running with factory tires (even factory tire pressure) and a slightly modified stock car running with X brand tires of different width. Logically, these two cars are not the identical. Yes, they can both be labeled stock, but one should have the added term of "100% Bone Stock". We all know, a simple change in tire brand can affect E.T. by as much as 0.3 seconds (higher or lower) if not more.
Basically, I'm trying to make it easy to differentiate between 100% Bone Stock car running with factory tires (even factory tire pressure) and a slightly modified stock car running with X brand tires of different width. Logically, these two cars are not the identical. Yes, they can both be labeled stock, but one should have the added term of "100% Bone Stock". We all know, a simple change in tire brand can affect E.T. by as much as 0.3 seconds (higher or lower) if not more.
I find it very funny that you are adamant about tire size and not as concerned with removal of charcoal filters.
#86
I don't mind having a category called Stock on X tires or Stock with a certain width, but I don't think these cars are equivalent to 100% Bone Stock vehicles (which use original factory X brand tires, factory size, stock filters, no removal of anything, etc....).
In the end, it's all up to you guys........... all I was suggesting is that we get together and create a clear definition for each term, and go by it. I am not as nearly as experienced as you or enzom or any of the other "big dawgs" but I do have questions and concerns that I share with you guys.