MB_Forever

I agree with you on this. I think the term 100% BONE STOCK should mean that one run the car exactly as it came from factory. No modification of tire brands, tire pressure, tire width, air filters, etc.....

Then we should define other terms that would be considered Stock, but not 100% Bone Stock. So, maybe call it "Almost Stock" or 98% Stock, or whatever. Something like this:

- Stock with X brand tires.
- Stock with X brand tires of Y width.
- Stock with no charcoal filters.
- Stock with X brand filters.
- Stock with X brand rims.
- etc....

But honostly, there should be a definition for 100% BONE STOCK car

juicee63

Ok I have read the SCCA manual, which has a "showroom stock class"

Looks like there are alot of things we do that would be considered stock .

10mm increase in rubber as long as it is on the stock rim is still stock under the SCCA rules.

Taking out , tools and mats as well as the spare is allowed, actually required.
You can also take out and replace the airfilters as long as there is no modification to the box.

There is a minimum weight if you fall under it weight is added to match others cars.

So I think we can allow the 275 increase from 265 and also the filters on the 63. Removing the spare and mats and tools as well.

Brand of tire and tire pressure is also UNRESTRICTED. Must be a DOT approved tire available to the public, it can be shaved, heat cycled etc.. Must have some tread

Zod

MB forver... I believe you should take back a statement you made a while back about some one not been stock due to tires they used .

We all make mistakes. One comment I would like to make. If you drive in a rainy/snowy/ mountain roads/ very hot environments you use a brand of tires best suited for this environment.

A tire is to ensure the car is able to run on what ever surface it is needed to run on for optimal performance and safety, this is not an engine/ suspension modification and yes tires effect times.
I think mentioning what tires you used is enough

TMC M5

Juicee:

To me, that definition makes sense. That is exactly the standard my brother used when he did SCCA and PCA autocrossing in his Boxster S. I think that same definition of "stock" should stand as far as 1/4 mile times recorded adhering to those minor mod's. I was only trying to make a point before on the tire pressure/spare..etc.

Tom

juicee63

Zod,

He did not really make a mistake.

The rules are not really applicable to the E55 or E63 until it is certified by the SCCA. If the car is running 275mm tires it would not be compared time wise to cars running 265mm. The idea is to get all the cars under the same model badge runningthe same OEM specs. If somebody has a 275mm tire then that is fine but it would only be fair to compare to other cars with the same set up.

I definately have learned alot reading the 400 page SCCA pdf. I think I can more fairly compare times now and also be less quick to throw out someones pass because they have a different air filter or wider than oem tire.


The rules allow equality between cars that may not be 100% equal in measure.

IE. A stock E55 void Pano roof would be lighter than one with Pano. This would create TWO classes of E55 or the lighter car would get some weight added to run in the Pano roof class.


Anyway we have some work to do , right now we are working on a set of standards you must meet to claim "stock". It will be based on the SCCA , NHRA, IHRA, MVVC, and rules and a the of Public opinion.

MBFOREVER's statement and opinion is still accurate as far as making comparison's between models that are not similar in OEM setup. And his car definately is 100% OEM stock.

MB_Forever

Zod, please don't misunderstand what I said. What I was trying to say was we need to create some sort of definition for 100% BONE Stock. And I'm trying to involve as many members as I can to help with this definition. According to Josh's statement about SCCA, a car can still be stock with different tires and different width. This is perfectly fine with me, as I agree that a car should still be labeled stock even if it does have different brand tires and different width (wider or narrower), but it should be categorized as Stock with X brand tires of Y width, but what I don't agree on is labeling a car 100% Bone Stock when anything has changed on it even tire pressure.

Basically, I'm trying to make it easy to differentiate between 100% Bone Stock car running with factory tires (even factory tire pressure) and a slightly modified stock car running with X brand tires of different width. Logically, these two cars are not the identical. Yes, they can both be labeled stock, but one should have the added term of "100% Bone Stock". We all know, a simple change in tire brand can affect E.T. by as much as 0.3 seconds (higher or lower) if not more.

05VENOM

FYI, after several runs at Atco with factory specs I experimented with tire pressures and removed my spare guess what....my times were SLOWER. Could it be it was later in the day and the weather was changing...maybe, or maybe it was coincidence...the runs were only .1-.15 slower which is marginal.

juicee63

Could be that what many have said is true that removing the spare hurts the 60 ft's?

likely not enough weight to matter but should be worth a few hundreths, 4/100ths of a second at best . Perhaps the 60ft time degrades more than what is accomplished through weight loss?

JAYCL600

umm yeah we will be taking care of that right quick. FYI everyone Tom is my neighbor and new buddy, yes i know how cute right. Anyways he has an amazingly beautiful an rare obsidian black CL65. I got the honor of driving it and man is she quick. I am putting together a nice photoshoot for the both of us over the next couple of weeks. Needless to say, im excited to have "an east coast 65" in my crew

rflow306

I think the biggest problem with the definition of stock is that people change it to fit their needs. As long as the person is honest enough to disclose the tire or filters used then it's okay to still be labeled stock imho. In the end it's all for fun and fun is what it should remain.

I find it very funny that you are adamant about tire size and not as concerned with removal of charcoal filters.

MB_Forever

That's because everybody seem to be ignoring the charcoal filters issue and focusing on the tire sizes . I actually believe that removing the charcoal filters also makes the car not 100% stock (for U.S. vehicles only of course since Euro version 63s don't have them), but I do understand the other side of the argument. In my opinion, these cars should be labeled Stock with no charcoal filters. Similarly, removing any weight from the trunk or any other part of the car would make the car not 100% stock either. I am basicaly looking for a more strict definition of 100% Bone Stock. I even consider lowering or raising tire pressure a "slight" modification and so also makes the car NOT 100% stock.

I don't mind having a category called Stock on X tires or Stock with a certain width, but I don't think these cars are equivalent to 100% Bone Stock vehicles (which use original factory X brand tires, factory size, stock filters, no removal of anything, etc....).

In the end, it's all up to you guys........... all I was suggesting is that we get together and create a clear definition for each term, and go by it. I am not as nearly as experienced as you or enzom or any of the other "big dawgs" but I do have questions and concerns that I share with you guys.