TMC M5

Being 100% of Italian descent, I am somewhat biased towards Italian products....and aspire to one day own both a Ferrari and Lamborghini. However, I do think that the Germans are the better "technical" engineers. Having owned an E39 M5, Audi RS6 and now CL65, I have witnessed the marvels of German engineering. However, if you are talking about engineering design in the aesthetic sense, then the Italians win out. Both groups of engineers have passion for cars...the Germans focused on the precision of the mechanicals...the Italians focused on the ethereal delights. Two different philosophies....which is probably best combined in VAG's ownership of Lamborghini. I have been to Ferrari's factory in Maranello and Lamborghini's factory in S'Agata Bolognese. The Lamborghiini folks were soooooo extremely nice and genuinely excited to see someone who knows and loves their products. The Ferrari experience was a bit disappointing..everything there was all about $$$'s and overall very cold. So my choice has a Bull on the key chain...preferrably an LP640.

Tom

jrcart

The Japanese Do, why did you not include them?
The japanese carmakers are way ahead of the Italians and slightly ahead of the Germans. I would not want to own one, I personally hate Japanese cars, but look at some of the stuff they are doing now and it's amazing. I'm not just talking "go fast engineering" I talking about automotive engineering in general. Hybrid tachnology, fuel cell technology, safety technology, the japs are the hands down leaders I'm sorry to say. But like I said, would not want one in my garage...unless it has 2 wheels.

ENDSMTG

This is going to hit home! I was at Gold Coast Bentley and was admiring a Bugatti that they had in the window there. As I was leaving, I was noticing the F-Cars and Lambos that they also had. The F-car just didn't close the deal for me. Comparing HP, options and future service calls, it just seems like the Lambo was a more complete package! Hence to say, there were no Japanese cars on the floor!

jrcart

Like I said, I would never own one, but you have to give them their props on some of the stuff they have been doing the past 5 years. Even their F1 effort is looking strong with Honda this season. Toyota/Lexus has been kicking butt in their sports car effort (Daytona Protos). The next generation NSX replacement looks like it's going to be a Ferrari killer. They lead the way in hybrids and are going to lead the way with their fuel cell technology. The question was "who has the best engineering", I just feel you can't leave out the japs, when they are clearly the cream of the crop right now, as must as it pains me to admit that. The question was not "who offers the most exotic machinery?".

stormwind

I don't know....Porche GT gets me pretty emotional especially a black/black one.

coolcamden

Why does it pain you to admit it? Lean, Kanban, Six Sigma, etc... Japanese does not have great INNOVATION, but they have exceptional ENGINEERING and PROCESS.

jrcart

Your comment sums it up best, they do not have great innovation...for the most part, but they can take someone elses concept, let's say a BMW 5 series and take it to a whole new level. Infinity has done that with the M45. Have you been in one of those M45's? Incredible car, and I have owned an M5. Yes, their process controls are copied by the entire world...Germans included. I just don't think I could bring myself to buy one. Don't ask me why????? I have owned dozens of Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki motorcycles though, double standard I guess.

ENDSMTG

WHO OFFERS THE MOST EXOTIC ENGINEERING?

MidniteBluBenz

In terms of sports cars I think the Italians win.

The Germans got the CGT which is one of the most beautiful pieces of engineering ever. It does prove that when the Germans want to they can build a piece to complete with the best Italian jobs.

MB SLR isn't on the same level as those cars. It's performance may be right up there but in terms of engineering ... meh.

BMW is missing in action.

Poor representation by the Germans is the reason they lose.

Audi / Lambo

Eurosport

Japanese

powerpig

I have ten Stars, a Cat and a Horse. They all have their place.

Yacht Master

Few notes, the SLR is not German engineering, last known address for McLaren was in the UK, Surry, I beleive was the birth place of the SLR.

Agree BMW never saw the ball, M1 RIP.

wmhjr

First of all, Lean and 6Sigma are not japanese process disciplines. Actually, all of the major manufacturers (including domestic) use Lean,6Sigma (and frankly Kanban is not a discipline - it's a method). In many cases the japanese introduced those concepts well after US and other manufacturers.

That being said, while japanese quality is certainly very high - quality is not the same as engineering. They could easily be included in the discussion, however.

wmhjr

I recently bought a W211, having looked at W204s. Because I was underwhelmed with the C300 (no C350 4Matic in the US) I broadened my search. I also looked at the A6/S6, and BMW 5, and the Infinity G35, M35 and M45. The infinity had the most features of all of them. Problem is that I just didn't like driving it. It was quite noisy (the G35x, and the M35x/M45x) and I just didn't care for the feel of the car. But, if the exterior styling was just a little more distinctive and if they deadened the noise plus changed the steering feedback a bit, I'd be driving an infinity. Better warranty, more features, and better reliability ratings. In the meantime I'm enjoying my '08 E.

coolcamden

Excuse me? Lean is not Japanese invention? Six Sigma is Motorola's invention but the Japanese refined and implemented it first.