jangy

Yeah, its funny. I've been noticing them, since the "incident" and there are quite a few modded C6s with Z06 badges. LOL!! Still, I saw the one I saw again. I work in North San Diego County (which is where we first "met") and happened upon the same 2008 Z08 in Orange!! I'm in the pacifica and so this guy thinks he has a loon trying to catch up to him in traffic. He finally happens to pull into a Chevron () and so I pull in and hop out.

Turns out to be the same guy and he remembers the run, so all of you here can lick VIC's nuts, hehe (this thread has lasted long enough). He is cool and has some slight intake and exhaust mods. He remembers the day like I did AND said that he is used to chewing up E55s, so he was trying to toy with me at first. Anyhoo, he is cool and we exchanged contacts and will go on a Palomar run, soon.

I never got a PM from any available Z06. NEVER and they are the second biggest auto enthusiast club around?


added disclaimer: the hate is only aimed at those that came in with the old, "been there, done that in my K/RT (pic your tuner) stage 12 and it ain't happnin", NOT those that actually presented an argument or experience either way.

Satan

[QUOTE=jangy;2780705]
If you say that the Z06 puts 475 to the floor, then why would it be so hard to believe that I took him if I may have 500 to the floor?

QUOTE]

Because 25hp will not overcome a 1k lb or more disadvantage, plus aerodynamics etc...

Murtaza

Because 25hp at the rear wheels will not make up for 1000lbs J

I hate to say it but maybe he was a Z06 poser Stock C6's are really fast as well.

Improviz

From the looks of it and what you're saying, you'd murder one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S3MGQbp_0c

jangy

Is that a stock Z06 or is your post OT AGAIN?

Improviz

My posts have been entirely on topic over the course of this thread, and as usual, you simply make snide remarks towards anyone who posts anything you don't like, who has had personal experience which differs from yours, posts a video whose outcome you do not like, or anyone who actually believes that Physics works.

The Z06 had light mods, just like the orange one you crushed, as you wrote:
There's your "OT".

Here's another car you should be able to kill: a CL65 AMG w/ reflashed ECU and 3" exhausts. He, in a modded car which stock has about 500 rwhp (same as yours), barely managed beat a stock Z06, and you murdered a modded one, repeatedly:
http://z06zone.com/media-videos/C6Z06vsCL65AMG.mov

And you'd absolutely slaughter this K4 CLS55, which according to its owner "ran an 11.9 @121, and dynoed at Kleemann at 600 Crank HP.":
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=58722

jangy

LOL @ you, improv... the one I raced had K&Ns and god knows what he called mods on the exhaust. The one in the Vid was tuned. My cousins have these cars. I know enough about them and that is why I am trying to get you back on topic (as always). Nice generalization that I attack all who don't believe. First off, that is not true. Alex just posted the same thing. He basically said I had no chance in hell. Did I attack him? No, because he didn't try to throw in a scew ball.

Why can't you just stay on topic, so when we do the shoot out everyone understands. pppfffsh, nothing but hate without a single point that we can discuss.

The only points that we have right now are:

1st: What is the HP difference between my modded E55 and a STOCK Z06 (and we can even argue about "useable HP").

2nd: What is the weight difference between my modded E55 and a Stock Z06 (and add the stereo and my own fat a$$ as a bonus).

And most important: Is that power delivery difference able to make up for the added weight on highway runs. If so, how? If not, how?

Does that help?

jangy

Is a CL65 really only 500 rwhp? I thought they were closer to 650 at the crank? Anyhow, thanks for backing up my argument with the video.

For those that hated because of the power to weight, is a CL not just as heavy (if not ) heavier than mine? Did the CL not win? I dunno about THAT CL, BUT I do believe VRP's dynos that show my car with 505 rwhp. Hmmm, lets see. Same HP, same weight........ but no, it can't be.

LOL that you think I'd be scared of a K4 that did whatever.

Improviz

YOU wrote that it had intake and exhaust mods, jangy:
So, please: explain how the vids of Z06s with similar mods are "OT", other than again showing results that you'd just as soon people not see?

So? The one you ran was modded!! Further, which vid? I posted three...did you even bother to watch them?

More ad hominem, spin, and evasion. Topic IS lightly modded Z06 vs modded E55. YOU wrote that the Z06 you raced was modded. I produced THREE videos, not one:

- a CL65 with reflashed ECU and 3" exhaust *barely* pulling a *STOCK* Z06;
- a Z06 with headers and "a tune" waxing a K4 Kleeman CLS55;
- a Z06 with chip and exhaust pulling an SLR;

and the fourth video I posted, again here for your enjoyment: a 2005 E55 RT stage 5 vs. 06 C6 ZO6 with filters, callaway shifter, and PS2.:
http://media.putfile.com/Mercedez-e5...orvette-C06-C6

That's FOUR videos. Where is your video, jangy? Where is your dyno? Where is your 1/4 mile timeslip?

So after all of this, the question is: does anyone believe that, after viewing these videos, that a 500 rwhp E55 could give a Z06 a jump and then run him down?

All of the evidence that's been presented clearly points in the opposite direction.

No, of course not...like telling everyone to "lick my nutz" above, right? Like calling anyone who disagreed with you "haters, 'vette worshipers, non believers", etc etc....

Shall I go back through the thread and quote all of the attacks you've made, jangy, just so people can see how blatently false this statement is? The fact that you are now parsing words most carefully and made ambiguous smears like "all of the haters" without elaborating doesn't absolve you of anything.

"Screw ball" being defined as magazine tests, 1/4 mile results, videos, testimony by people who own and who have run both cars, and any other evidence that doesn't gel with your opinion.

Again you lie, and make personal attacks. I posted nothing hateful, merely videos that you do not want people to see, because they undercut your claims and you know it, just as owners who've run both cars and told you that this would not normally happen undercut your claims, which is why you attacked them too, calling them "haters, unbelievers, corvette worshipers", all nothing more than a deliberate smear campaign trying to undercut their credibility without addressing their points, just as you are doing here.

All of these have been addressed, and you damn well know it. Your car weighs 1,000 more pounds than a Z06 and produces maybe 25-50 more wheel horsepower, depending upon which dyno you look at. Btw, do you have a dyno showing that your car is putting out 500 rwhp?

For that matter, do you have any timeslip showing what your vehicle traps at? Do you have any video of your beating a Z06 with the mods the one you stomped, let get the jump, and ran down has?

chem0

i <3 improviz/jangy action

Improviz

Here's a stock CL65's dyno: 559 rwhp. Thank you for correcting me and undercutting your argument.

You see, jangy, they do weigh something like 500 more pounds than you. So at 100 lbs/10 crank hp = 100 lbs/8.2 rwhp, so to match him at 500 pounds less you'd need to subtract the 500 lbs*(8.2 rwhp/100 lbs) = 41 hp from the 559 due to weight penalty, so to have the same weight/hp, you'd need effectively 518 rwhp stock to be at where his is stock . This is 13 more rwhp than you say you've got (still waiting on that dyno).

But, as you are seemingly unable to grasp, the car in the video is not stock. He has a reflashed ECU (= more boost to turbos, = more power) and a 3" exhaust. Yet he barely beat a stock Z06.

So do you think that, with his stock 559 rwhp, he could beat the Z06 *at all*, let alone let

Do me a favor: why don't we cut to the chase with this "hater" business. Might you be kind enough to list those to whom you're referring as "haters" in this thread, and what exactly you feel that they said which was hateful--aside from actually daring to disagree with you, that is?

Is the CL stock? No.

So you're saying that his ECU reflash (remember, this is a twin turbo car, where the ECU reflash can actually do something, by giving more turbo boost = more power) and 3" exhaust didn't pick him up any horsepower over stock?

In this case, how is it that your car picked up 100 with 3psi more boost, an intake mod, filters, and tune, given that you seem to be arguing that the CL65's mods didn't pick him up any horsepower over stock?

That car dyno'd with what the owner says is 600 crank, which would be around 500 rwhp, which, if I'm not mistaken, is the same as yours, yes? And yet the Z06 somehow, magically, managed to pull it.

Do you have any vids of your running and beating a K4?

Thericker

Are you forgetting about the most important # on the 65-AMG in question? What about the HUGE torque in the tuned CL65 around 900 ft lb's

It's got about 300-400 more torque than your E55...

Your 500rwhp is great don't get me wrong, but what about the torque?
No flamage bro just questioning is all

tscales

This thread is boring me, but I have to ask one question.

What's the point of comparing a modified car to a stock car? I can modify a Suburu to beat a Z06, but it is still a Suburu.

If you want to compare a modified E55 to a Z06, compare it to a modified Z06. Say the APS Twin Turbo kit, or the ATI Supercharger.

Apples to apples folks.

That said, simple physics would say ANY x55 would require one heck of a lot of HP to trounce a Z06 in the quarter. 505hp, which is likely underrated and a lot less weight. Pretty darn good traction.

I have a stock E55 Wagon. I haven't run it or my Corvette, but I wouldn't run my convertible for pinks, no way. Even the 08 Convertible is a mid to high 11s car.

jangy

Stay focussed, buddy. First off, I didn't compare my car to an AMG CL65. Second, improv brought up the comparison of my car and a tuned CL600. Why would I argue it?

But, you bring up a good point. What about the torque? What does the Z06 put down when punching it at 80mph?

jangy

So, you are bored and can't keep track, huh?

jangy

Improv, dude: you are working yourself up into a lather. I am not hiding who I consider a hater. It is simply you. You think I'm scared of you? What difference does it make if I say you are a hater? YOU ARE!! You continue to dig and dig to find a way to argue over something that is just too simple. We can argue if the Vette in the video was modded more than the one I ran or whatever. I hope it makes you feel better, because you are simply getting used here.

Personal stuff:
Since you clearly don't know me, let me clear a few things up for you. I hate you. Everything between us is personal and it has nothing to do with you trying to ram crap down my throat. Plenty of people bring stuff up with me and I'll discuss it. I've shown that time and again. Then, there are the times when someone (like you) just decides to make it personal. At these times, you could give a rat's a$$ about the "topic" at hand. Instead, you simply try to clean up after yourself.

Data:
I have no dyno to prove my numbers, actually I was not even present to see what was done to the car or what it showed on the dyno. But, if you really are interested you may look up a company named VRP. They are the ones that made the number claims. I also never claimed to have 500, since the number doesn't mean much to me. I am not a drag racer, so I am not real big on trying to extrapolate numbers for best fits, etc. A car running whatever time in a quarter mile on some track simply means no more to me than my posting of beating the Vette on the highway. It was simply an event.

Random Questions:
Have I raced a K4? No, but I'd love to put some money on a race, if you'd like? No disrespect to Kleeman, but their tune (which was designed back in what??) simply is not the same as the urrent VRP one.

Do I think a turbo car (CL65) can gain from a tune? Yes, why wouldn't I? I saw it first hand on VIC55s car. I also watched him walk all the E55s there.

Do I really think the Vette I ran and the one in your video are comparable? No, that is you. You want to compare adding K&Ns vs nitrous and still call both the same? Twisted.

Do I think a 3" pipe does crap for a CL65? You better check your specs, before you get all excited about that one.

Now that I am bored and this is personal, screw it.... give me your best until the mods shut this down. Lets see who the liar is. I'll be sure to video your heals and a$$ running back to the OT section.

Improviz

Horse hooey. You said, repeatedly, "haterS", which is plural. Who else were you talking about, oh poor, persecuted one? Who else in this thread is a "hater", and why?

And hmmm, so let me get this straight: you, who now profess to hate me, were trying to criticize people as "haters"? Hmm, why am I not surprised? Have you been sampling some of your clients' wares?

No, nor do I recall implying or thinking you should be, nor do I care, but I'm beginning to think you might be a tad bit pathological and psychotic....but who knows, maybe you're having a bad year.

You mean, you can argue and split hairs, anything but address actual facts and issues...much easier to call someone a "hater, corvette worshipper, nonbeliever", accuse them of being "off topic" or "unfocused", or to tell them to kiss your nutz, whatever...you should also try questioning their patriotism too, works well for for some folks.

"Used"?? By whom??? Now you're implying that someone is putting me up to this? Hmm, add "paranoid" to the list..

Um, no, not really....despite your blatantly ridiculous claim that I'm the only one you were referring to as a "hater", the fact is that you've referred to multiple people over the course of this thread not only as "haters", but also other derogatory terms such as "non-believers" and "corvette worshipers", without having the sack to identify who you're talking about. Which is, as I said, nothing more than a smear campaign against any and all who dare to question the rather incredible story you're relating here.

Beating a Z06 in a roll-on is one thing, and an accomplishment in and of itself, and there's been plenty of evidence by all of those dang "haters, 'vette worshippers, and unbelievers" presented to show that the facts aren't favorable to such an outcome...but giving one a jump and running him down? You'd need a helluvalot more than 500 rwhp to do that in a 4200 pound automobile.

No, I'm simply providing videos, numbers, physics, etc. which show how odd the claims you're making are. And I'm far from the only one to have questioned it, but decided to stick with it after you started in with the personal attacks against long standing members of this forum who committed the unpardonable sin of disagreeing with The Great Jangy.

So, I found me some vids.

Oh?

Um, actually, you did, jangy, 500 once, 505 another time:
Were you making this up, or what?

Great, but physics is physics, and 4200 pounds/500 rwhp is NOT going to run down 3150 pounds/450-500 rwhp when the latter gets a jump, unless the driver is an idiot who is short shifting his car, or running 83 octane gasoline, or running with the parking brake on.

Random response: the guy who posted that vid said that his CLS55 dyno'd 600 crank, which I assume he corrected from rwhp, which would put rwhp at around 500, same as yours. Why shouldn't I believe him?

Because you were using a STOCK CL65's numbers to claim that the video of a MODDED CL65 barely beating a Z06 were "proof" that your car could do it. Problem is that, which I pointed out in the video, in my response to your post following it up, and again now: the CL65 IN THE VIDEO I POSTED IS NOT STOCK. It is MODDED, with ECU reflash ***AND*** 3" exhaust. I point this out because you, below, argue that the 3" exhaust could not benefit it (Which is contrary to most established automotive engineering principles....oh, and of course, VRP's exhaust *will* benefit your car, right?)

I think you've been inhaling nitrous, because NONE of the Z06s I posted were running it. . It is so typical, jangy, for you to erect a strawman and fight it, making up something that I never claimed nor hinted at...YOU SAID that the one YOU raced had INTAKE AND EXHAUST mods. Of the four Z06s whose vids I posted:

- one Z06 was bone stock, and was barely beaten by a (fourth time now), ECU reflashed +3" custom exhaust CL65;
- one Z06 had headers (i.e., AN EXHAUST MOD) and a "tune" (presumably a chip, which do zip for non-turbo cars) waxing a Kleeman K4 CLS55;
- one Z06 had chip and EXHAUST pulling an SLR;
- one ZO6 had filters (i.e., INTAKE), callaway shifter (no power here), and PS2, and waxed an E55 RT stage 5

i.e., NONE of these were "more modded" than the one you ran; in fact, one was stock, the other three had either the SAME mods or fewer, and they DAMN sure weren't running nitrous.

Another tactic, aside from strawmen: only respond to part of the points raised....I guess you just "accidentally" missed the two or three times it's been mentioned now that the CL65 also had an ECU reflash??

So, wouldn't that thar ECU reflash be a tad bit more relevant and important on the horsepower scale than an exhaust? So why do you keep acting as though it was never mentioned, isn't a factor, etc., totally omit it from your response, and act as though the exhaust is the only meaningful mod the car has??

He don't know me verry well, do he?

Improviz

jangy argument tactic #3: accuse anyone who raises relevant questions of being "off topic" or "lacking focus":

He is focused, and is raising facts that are very relevant. That they don't happen to be facts that you want to hear isn't the same as being unrelated to the topic.

Oh?

Hmm, coulda fooled me there, jangy.....looks ike you most definitely were comparing the power/weight ratio of your car to a stock CL65.

Oh???

Hmm, coulda fooled me there, jangy; I coulda swore that I brought up a CL65 and posted a vid of one, but thanks for correcting me by claiming that I did something that I didn't do.

rbaker

I'm probably crazy for adding to this thread, but here's another data point from someone that's owned and/or driven both types of cars... Z06's are very driver dependent. The 6spd in them actually requires someone that knows how to shift & at what RPM. My '08 Z06 is way faster than my old C55 or the new E63 we took out was. And around a race track, the gap grows even further in favor of the Z06.

The biggest problem you will see with most Z06 guys on a fwy blast is they use too high of a gear. On those cars, 5th is a .74 overdrive, and 6th is a .50 overdrive!!! That seriously limits acceleration if they want to go all out. And, as some of you have pointed out, is that some guys stick Z06 badges on a regular C6.

What I find, is that on the street, when driving my Z06, I rarely push it against other cars. And if I do, I only floor it for a couple seconds & in that time pull so far ahead of the other car I then lift to slow, as I'm already in the arrest me zone by that time. Any more and it's just unsafe & they would take anyone to jail if they clocked it, so I just don't do it. Some guys then think if they keep on it until they pass you they won, but hey, I already went 30mph faster than them in less time, pulled 5-10 cars & slowed to a cruise before they even got close. A 911 driver did this & I just laughed... with the AMG I found that I would push it more often & harder as it wasn't as fast and it cruised quieter so you didn't have quite the sense of speed. YMMV...

rbaker

I won't run you on the street, as I don't do that anymore, but you're more than welcome to bring it out to the race track next time I go. Not to knock a 63 as they're cool rides and I'm looking at getting one as a driver again, but after driving both, there's no way you could keep up with a well driven Z06. I'll be at Sears Point July 4th weekend with one

And it's true that stock Z06's have broke into the high 10's, on stock run flat tires, no mods.

Put it another way... I have this fwy on ramp by my house... if I take it in 2cd gear in my Z06 and then floor it with the traction control in "Competition Mode" or "Off" (on uses torque management & gradually gives you full power, many Z06 owner's don't know this) I can go from 40-95MPH in 2cd gear in a bit under 2 seconds. The E63 I just tried that with couldn't come close. Also, IIRC the E63 isn't much faster than an M5, and those typically only (only???) pull high 120's to maybe low 130's on the main straight at Laguna. I was hitting 140 in my Z06 bone stock (including run flat street tires) on my 1st event after breaking it in. And I did it lap after lap without any protest from the car for 20-30 minute sessions, where my AMG & some M5's would start to pull back power from overtemp.

BTW, for the price of set of RennTech headers & generic software, the C6 Z06's can be over 620HP+... with turbo's they can be over 1000hp.

jangy

Do disrespect, but the dude was trying. We even spoke about it later. If he can't drive, then tough. I don't care and there are no excuses in a race. Last thing, my car is neither an E63 nor stock. I am putting down more HP and LOADS of TQ over an E63.

Sears point is far, BUT maybe if we get enough money on it (improv?). By the way, what happenned to the slew of Z06 people in SoCal that would come and slap me around? Not one rsponse out of the second largest car club in California.

ItalianStallion

No offense dude, but they probably just don't care enough...

This happened back about 2 months ago on M5board, 6speedonline, and CorvetteForum (I believe)...some guy in a modded M5 posted a vid of how he spanked a Z06. He was talking trash about them and saying that they aren't that fast. Finally, a Z06 owner from CF came out to the M car meet and the M owner went from talking trash to praising the Z06 as being a much, much faster car.

Jangy, if you didn't say that you spoke to the guy in the Vette then I'd say he was probably just messing around. I often just leave it in 4th gear on the highway and it's enough for me to take out most cars. But since he was trying, I guess the torque advantage just may have done it...it's still strange to me but I doubt you'd be immature enough to lie.

Improviz

....you really didn't raise any, nor did you respond to any of mine:

- the Z06s whose vids I posted were either stock (1), or modded less than or equal to the one you supposedly raced (3), despite your ridiculous false claim that they had nitrous.

- the CL65 you falsely claimed had the same rwhp as your car now has a) more rwhp stock than your car has now, and b) was modded with an ECU tune. In fact, even though this ECU tune has been pointed out to you five separate times now, you simply refuse to acknowledge its existance, because you know damn good and well that if a stock CL65 puts out around 60 more rwhp than yours supposedly does, yet an ECU flashed CL65 can barely beat a stock Z06 all the way up to 140+, then your supposed 500 rwhp car damn sure won't run one down one after giving him a jump, let alone beat one from a roll, unless its driver is simply too incompetant to drive it.

- I say "supposed" 500 rwhp car because now it turns out that, after TWICE falsely claiming that dyno numbers show that YOUR CAR makes first 500, then 505 rwhp, you turned around and said that it you have no dyno, and then lied on top of that and said you'd never claimed it in the first place. So the FACT is that you have no proof of this claim either.

- in addition to having no 1/4 mile slips, you have no vids either. when vids showing the opposite are presented, you either lie about them (claiming for the Z06s nitrous or state of tune which they do not have, repeatedly refusing to acknowledge or address the ECU flash on the CL65, etc), refuse to discuss them at all (Z06 beating an SLR), or accuse the E55/CLS55 owners of not knowing how to drive.

- when longstanding forum members who are clearly Mercedes enthusiasts but who (gasp) own or have run Z06s weighed in, you simply attacked them as "haters, corvette worshippers" and the like. when finally asked to identify some of these haters (plural), you simply lied and said that you had been using the plural sense of the word to refer to a single person, me. What a crock of BS....while you are obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer, you damn sure know the difference between the singular and the plural, and the fact is that you were smearing MULTIPLE members, not only me, then lied, and continue to lie, about it.

- when Z06 1/4 mile tests and runs were introduced, you made a ridiculous argument that there were not enough runs to be "statistically significant", implied that I knew nothing about statistics (as it turns out, not a smart thing to do without knowing someone's background), only to run away from that point with your tail between your legs when it became obvious that I've forgotten more about stats than you know.

- you claimed that your car only weighed 4-500 pounds more than a Z06. when actual weigh-ins for both cars was presented showing E55s to be 1000-1100 pounds heavier, you ignored it, then, amazingly, had the chutzpah to raise the issue again several posts later as though it had never been discussed, let alone resolved.

- yes, I did say "paranoid", because you said that in debating you, I was "being used", but when asked to identify in what sense or by whom, you refused to answer. just another false accusation and smear in a long line...

- you debated me about a CL65, then lied about it to the ricker, and also falsely stated that I'd been discussing a CL600.

Up to this point, I've been reserved in my criticism of the event itself, and at one point was willing to give you a certain benefit of the doubt but I'll be crystal clear: given the extent to which you've attempted to dismiss any and all facts presented by myself and others, and given the lengths you've gone to to twist and obfuscate them, plus the repeated cheap shots and smears you've taken in a weak effort to attack the credibility of people who have done nothing more than relay personal experiences, and on top of this outright lied in multiple instances, I think the entire thing either never happened, or if it did, you fabricated and embellished enough to make Baron Munchausen proud.

The only other possibilities are that either 1) you ran a poseur, but now you've claimed to have met him and seen his Z06, so either you're an idiot who cannot tell a Z06 from a C6, made this up too, or 2) you ran the World's Worst Z06 driver, which I doubt as well, because from a rolling start, it's pretty hard to screw two or three shifts up to the extent he would need to do for you to do what you claim to have done.

So yeah, I'm calling No matter how you slice it, this story just doesn't add up.

And I think that more than enough evidence has been presented, by myself and others, to show this. But of course, you don't want people to listen to those nasty li'l ol' facts we're presenting, anecdotes from other owners which are totally opposite from yours, or videos, but you don't have any data to the contrary to present. Which is, of course, the reason why you're attacking us: it's a classic "look over here, over there, look anywhere but at the Emperor, lest ye notice that he has no clothes" approach.

When and if you present a single solitary piece of data that actually supports your case, we'll discuss, but so far you have failed to do so, so I won't be holding my breath.

Pathetic.

regor60

Not happening, that's over 1.3 g's. Check the speedo, stopwatch or both.

edit: need about 560 lb-ft at the wheels, but that's in a vacuum, but closer than I thought.

jangy

None taken, bro. It was supposed to be getting setup as part of the "prove me BS plan". Nothing ever came but yappin', so I was just asking again. i wasn't the one that was setting it up.

Exactly, why would I make up a tale on a Z06? I didn't even know what kind of power they made or anything.